A computer components & hardware forum. HardwareBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » HardwareBanter forum » General Hardware & Peripherals » General
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 9th 18, 04:10 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?

I discovered something last night that has me stumped.
I have two TVs in the house - both have been using a so-called Verizon
set-top box to get TV programming via a wireless Verizon router The
TVs are hardwired to the router via house coax, as is the router. My
two PCs are cat5-connected to the same router even though the latter
could work wireless (wireless showed to be slower). I also have a
tablet and a laptop, both of which get internet wirelessly using same
router.

Having said all that - the other night I accidently disconnected my
router's power, but did not know it (I was not using the web on my
computers). While in that state, I watched TV several hours wth no
problem. Then - I discovered the disconnect, and connected. Then, of
course, my PCs had internet access, All ok.

But then - I thought: How the H was I getting a TV signal?
I repeated the power disconnect just to veriify things, and the same
happened.

I asked a friend, who lives 100 miles away, to try duplicating my
fete, and he said he got no TV at all, which seems logical.

Can anyone suggest how I am getting a TV signal? What don't I know?
Maybe I can stop paying for Verizon TV?

Thanks
Sam
  #3  
Old November 9th 18, 09:29 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,297
Default Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?

SamSpade wrote:

I discovered something last night that has me stumped.
I have two TVs in the house - both have been using a so-called Verizon
set-top box to get TV programming via a wireless Verizon router The
TVs are hardwired to the router via house coax, as is the router. My
two PCs are cat5-connected to the same router even though the latter
could work wireless (wireless showed to be slower). I also have a
tablet and a laptop, both of which get internet wirelessly using same
router.

Having said all that - the other night I accidently disconnected my
router's power, but did not know it (I was not using the web on my
computers). While in that state, I watched TV several hours wth no
problem. Then - I discovered the disconnect, and connected. Then, of
course, my PCs had internet access, All ok.

But then - I thought: How the H was I getting a TV signal?
I repeated the power disconnect just to veriify things, and the same
happened.

I asked a friend, who lives 100 miles away, to try duplicating my
fete, and he said he got no TV at all, which seems logical.

Can anyone suggest how I am getting a TV signal? What don't I know?
Maybe I can stop paying for Verizon TV?

Thanks
Sam


Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate
router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means
you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need
the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the
service entry point directly (from a splitter) to the set-top box which
then is wired to the TV. The only reason you have a modem is to provide
additional services, like an internal router and switch for networking,
radios for wifi networking, and voice service (if the modem has that
feature). CATV doesn't go through the modem. From the service entry
point, there is a splitter. One output goes to your TV(s) but perhaps
to an adapter or set-top box and then to the TV(s). The other output of
the splitter goes to the modem for networking and voice services.

I know many users aren't that old where all you had was CATV without any
paralleled Internet service, so you were stuck with dial-up services
over the POTS lines or satellite dish for Internet access. You didn't
get a cable modem back then. CATV was splitting the coax to the various
radio devices (TV, recorders). Just coax from service entry (through a
splitter to connect more than one radio device) to a wall jack to coax
cable to set-top box (decoder) to a coax cable to the TV (or adapter if
the TV didn't have an RF connector).

The coax carries the TV signals. The modem doesn't get those. CATV
doesn't go through the modem. You only need the modem for *other*
services, like Internet or voice. TV signalling over coax doesn't use
IP addressing or any networking protocols.

Sorry, no idea what your friend has for a config (and even yours was a
bit vague). He might be using streaming to his TV and that only works
over networking, not simple TV signals over coax.

The TV just needs coax (although it might not have the old RF connector
some some adapter may be needed to convert to whatever input types the
TV has or which ones other than RF that you want to use). It doesn't
need the cable modem. If you have a smart TV, yes, then it wants to use
a network to communicate with other devices on your network, like
getting firmware updates and accessing non-CATV content sources (e.g.,
Netflix, SlingTV, etc). You only need the modem (what you might be
calling the router) for *networking*.

In fact, your TV (or set-top box) probably does not connect to the cable
modem at all. More likely your setup is something like:

service entry (coax)-- splitter }--(coax)-- set-top box ---- TV
}--(coax)--------------------- TV
}--(coax)-- modem }--(CAT5)-- PC
}--(wifi)-- PC

The modem isn't even in the path between coax service entry to the
set-top box and TV. CATV doesn't need a modem/router. CATV came first.
Cable Internet came later. CATV doesn't use the Internet. The decoder
(set-top box) is only needed if the TV signals are scrambled. If your
TV doesn't have an RF jack, you need an adapter (which could be the
set-top box) to convert from coax to RCA, DVI, or whatever to match what
jacks your TV does have. That's for simple or dumb CATV. With smart
TVs, they want to use networking for their non-CATV features.

You claimed "Verizon set-top box to get TV programming via a wireless
Verizon router". Really? If true then you should be able to connect to
the internal web server in the cable modem to see the list of networked
devices connected to the cable modem. For me, that means use a web
browser on a PC to go to 10.0.0.1, login, Connected Devices, and see
what is listed there. Set-top boxes are not listed for me. My laptop,
desktop PCs, security cam, VOIP box (Obitalk), and smartphones are
listed. Some are wired (Ethernet). Some are wi-fi devices. They are
listed because they are networked devices. The set-top boxes are not
networking devices, just CATV devices, so they are not listed.
  #4  
Old November 9th 18, 09:34 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
John McGaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 669
Default Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?

On 11/9/2018 3:29 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
SamSpade wrote:

I discovered something last night that has me stumped.

snip...

Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate
router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means
you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need
the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the

snip...

Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax
cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten
years back.
  #5  
Old November 9th 18, 10:26 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,297
Default Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?

John McGaw wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate
router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means
you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need
the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the


Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax
cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten
years back.


Are you're paying for CATV (networking not involved) or streaming TV
(requires networking) or both?

The coax (RF) connector on the cable modem goes where? To a splitter at
the service entry point. The cable to the RF connector on the set-top
box goes where? To the splitter at the service entry point.

Um, you thought CATV went away 10 years ago as though being old meaning
it was no longer used. How old do you think is the Ethernet protocol
for networking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet

Neither are new technologies. Neither is under 10 years old, or 20
years old, or 30 years old. Try over 40 years old for Ethernet and 60
years old for CATV. They both still work. Nothing your paying for
CATV, voice, or Internet is new technology.
  #6  
Old November 10th 18, 12:58 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_28_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 837
Default Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?

VanguardLH wrote:
John McGaw wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate
router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means
you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need
the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the

Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax
cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten
years back.


Are you're paying for CATV (networking not involved) or streaming TV
(requires networking) or both?

The coax (RF) connector on the cable modem goes where? To a splitter at
the service entry point. The cable to the RF connector on the set-top
box goes where? To the splitter at the service entry point.

Um, you thought CATV went away 10 years ago as though being old meaning
it was no longer used. How old do you think is the Ethernet protocol
for networking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet

Neither are new technologies. Neither is under 10 years old, or 20
years old, or 30 years old. Try over 40 years old for Ethernet and 60
years old for CATV. They both still work. Nothing your paying for
CATV, voice, or Internet is new technology.


You probably need a CableCard now, due to encryption.

I doubt traditional cable would work by accident,
it takes planning and the cable company won't exactly
be helping you.

It means they don't have to send a guy skulking around
your house, sniffing for stolen CATV. If you don't have
the proper CableCard, you're not going to see anything.

And an added benefit, is extra CableCards are rented
for $5 a month - the CableCard scheme makes them extra money.

Paul
  #7  
Old November 10th 18, 02:26 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?

On Fri, 09 Nov 2018 18:58:29 -0500, Paul
wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:
John McGaw wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate
router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means
you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need
the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the
Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax
cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten
years back.


Are you're paying for CATV (networking not involved) or streaming TV
(requires networking) or both?

The coax (RF) connector on the cable modem goes where? To a splitter at
the service entry point. The cable to the RF connector on the set-top
box goes where? To the splitter at the service entry point.

Um, you thought CATV went away 10 years ago as though being old meaning
it was no longer used. How old do you think is the Ethernet protocol
for networking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet

Neither are new technologies. Neither is under 10 years old, or 20
years old, or 30 years old. Try over 40 years old for Ethernet and 60
years old for CATV. They both still work. Nothing your paying for
CATV, voice, or Internet is new technology.


You probably need a CableCard now, due to encryption.

I doubt traditional cable would work by accident,
it takes planning and the cable company won't exactly
be helping you.

It means they don't have to send a guy skulking around
your house, sniffing for stolen CATV. If you don't have
the proper CableCard, you're not going to see anything.

And an added benefit, is extra CableCards are rented
for $5 a month - the CableCard scheme makes them extra money.

Paul


Thanks guys
Sam
  #8  
Old November 10th 18, 03:04 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,297
Default Can Someone Tell Me What Is Going On?

Paul wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

John McGaw wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Assuming "router" actually means the cable modem, not some separate
router you have downstream of the modem. The modem losing power means
you lose networking services, not cable TV (CATV). You don't even need
the modem if all you want is CATV service. The coax runs from the

Damn! I didn't think of the possibility that there were still old coax
cable TV feeds around any more. I though that all went away at least ten
years back.


Are you're paying for CATV (networking not involved) or streaming TV
(requires networking) or both?

The coax (RF) connector on the cable modem goes where? To a splitter at
the service entry point. The cable to the RF connector on the set-top
box goes where? To the splitter at the service entry point.

Um, you thought CATV went away 10 years ago as though being old meaning
it was no longer used. How old do you think is the Ethernet protocol
for networking?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet

Neither are new technologies. Neither is under 10 years old, or 20
years old, or 30 years old. Try over 40 years old for Ethernet and 60
years old for CATV. They both still work. Nothing your paying for
CATV, voice, or Internet is new technology.


You probably need a CableCard now, due to encryption.

I doubt traditional cable would work by accident,
it takes planning and the cable company won't exactly
be helping you.

It means they don't have to send a guy skulking around
your house, sniffing for stolen CATV. If you don't have
the proper CableCard, you're not going to see anything.

And an added benefit, is extra CableCards are rented
for $5 a month - the CableCard scheme makes them extra money.

Paul


The CableCard was the result of an FCC ruling (Telecommunications Act of
1996). It was and is how the CATV providers retain control over use of
their system and content while complying with a ruling saying customers
could use equipment other than that supplied by the CATV provider. The
set-top box or CableCard are only required to decrypt the encrypted
digital transmission over the coax (to convert to signalling that TVs
can use). You can lease a set-top box from your CATV provider. Or you
can lease a CableCard from your CATV provider. They haven't
relinquished access control over their encrypted content. If there is
unencrypted CATV content on the coax, you don't need a set-top box or
CableCard for that.

The cable modem, assuming one is even present, is not involved in
encrypted CATV. The coax comes into your home, optionally to a splitter
(if more than one radio device uses the CATV content or you connect a
cable modem), and goes to the set-top box and then to the TV. CATV,
encrypted or not, doesn't go through the cable modem.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides...tem-encryption

The FCC requires the cable providers include the local OTA channels
which is what you likely get with the cable provider's basic service.
If all you want is the basic service (you don't want anything more) then
you don't even need a set-top box. The coax can go from outside
directly to your TV (the splitter is only needed to connect more than
one TV or to other services, like the modem). As I recall, although
required to carry the local channels, the cable operators move them up
to frequencies beyond the tuner of your TV, so you get stuck with a
set-top box (whether theirs or another using the CableCard) to reach
those local channels on their cable.

There are even CableCard-ready TVs, so the coax goes straight to the TV.
No set-top box, no 3rd party CableCard device, just a cable from wall to
TV - and that cable doesn't go through the cable modem.

https://www.lifewire.com/intro-to-ca...d-tech-3276161

You still have to get the CableCard from the CATV provider. I haven't
gone that route, so I don't know if they'll sell it or just rent it.
From what I've read, the CATV providers usually rents them ($3.99/mo).
Some customers didn't have a rental option and had to pay $150 per
CableCard. Of those, some got the cost offset with a "Dump the Dish"
promotion at the time. The CATV provider has to activate the CableCard;
else, it's non-functional hardware.

In any case, the CableCard or set-top box does not involve the cable
modem which is for Internet and voice services. The coax goes straight
to the set-top box or whatever device in which you plug the CableCard.
That's all about encrypting the content, not how CATV works. Simple
(unencrypted) CATV can go straight to your TV (if its digital tuner can
reach all the channels).

https://www.google.com/search?q=veri...ions#kpvalbx=1

Notice they're connecting the coax (coming into the house and possibly
from a splitter) directly to the set-top box (or a CableCard device, if
you're using one). The cable modem isn't in the circuit. You don't
need a cable modem to only get CATV service. If you add Internet and
voice services, the CATV content to your TV is still through the coax
from your service entry point, not from or through the modem.

There may additional services the set-top box or CableCard device can
supply to you that require networking but those services are outside or
in addition to the CATV service. You could just have:

service coax ---- set-top box ---- TV

No cable /modem/ is involved nor needed just for CATV service. Since
most CATV consumers also have Internet service, they also have a cable
modem and mistakeningly believe the modem is involved with CATV service.
That's why the OP got confused why CATV was still working when his
Internet access disappeared when he powered off the cable modem. One of
the first questions I get from tech support when I call in to report an
outage of Internet or voice service is if the cable TV service is still
working. If CATV is still working then they know the coax connections
are okay from entry point to set-top box to TV (and probably are also
okay from entry point to cable modem). Thereafter to fix an Internet
outage has them having you putz with the cable modem which on a separate
coax from the splitter.

https://www.timewarnercable.com/cont...de-tv-east.pdf
https://frontier.com/~/media/HelpCen...ons.ashx?la=en

Notice a cable modem isn't even mentioned. A CableCard just means you
get it (leased or purchased) from your CATV provider and can use it in a
CATV (set-top) box that is from your CATV provider or somewhere else.

https://www.verizon.com/support/resi...local-tv-setup

Here you see a cable modem shown but that is not for CATV service. A
splitter is used upstream of both the CATV device (TV or set-top box)
and the modem. One path is for purely CATV service (to the TV). The
other path to the modem are for Internet and voice services or whatever
requires networking protocols (wired or wireless).
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 HardwareBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.