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Strange lock-up problem.
Ok, I've built a strange system from parts. It's an Atrend 6310M mobo. It's
an AT, Slot 1 board. I was quite pleased to get it as I have a lot of AT stuff (cases, PSUs etc) that I've been loathe to throw away. I welcomed the chance to use some with this board. I Googled the board and found a manual in .pdf format. It says that the board supports up to a PII450Mhz and 128MB SDRAM in each of it's two slots. Great thinks I, I can make a decent machine out of my AT stuff before I finally biff it (The back room is half-full of AT stuff, including two boxes of working PSUs). So I put it together with one 128MB module, 10/100 3Com NIC (I'm on a LAN here), 8MB AGP card (S3 but it's adequate for it's purpose), ISA Soundblaster 16, ISA Rockwell 56k modem and a two-port PCI-USB card. There are pins on the board for a USB header but I don't have the header and there are pins for a PS/2 header. I *do* have a header for a PS/2 mouse but it just has four wires in a row and I've tried fitting it either way to the pins on the mobo and it doesn't seem to work. I don't have a schematic for the board or a PS/2 port to work out how to/if I can successfully connect it. So, the PCI-USB card is there for a mouse (at the moment). I have a couple of serial mice but they are horrible to use, I want to make this PC reasonable to use as I have a person in mind for it, I can give them a monitor with it (14" unfortunately but it's all I have spare and I'm gonna give it away). I installed 98SE and it all went perfectly once I'd downloaded a few drivers I needed. It works great, is snappy and responsive. But..... I always run SETI CLI on machines I build (as well as Prime95 and, if Prime fails, Memtest86) as a torture-test. I give a few older machines away or build machines for friends at no or nearly no profit so I don't want to be plagued with 'support' calls any more than I can avoid. (I always make it clear that I will only respond to hardware problems, unless, if they have a proggy they want installed, they bring it here for me to install) Ok, the problem. This machine runs Prime95 for 24 hours no problem. It runs SETI CLI sweet *but*, I have the monitor set to turn off after 10 minutes, no screen saver. If the machine has completed a SETI WU and it's got the monitor turned off it locks up. No mouse movement or pounding of keyboard will wake it. A hard re-set is needed. This has happened three times and every time the first thing the PC does when it starts is complete the last 10 seconds of a SETI WU and then connect to get another one. It's connecting through my LAN at the moment. At any other time I can just move the mouse slightly and the monitor springs to life, it's only at the conclusion of a SETI WU that this problem occurs *So far*. Ok, the person I'm gonna give it to isn't going to run SETI but this could be indicitive of a larger problem. Any Ideas? I was wondering if it's maybe happening as a consequence of the machine trying to access the network while the monitor is off? I don't know. The NIC is fine, (3Com) I pulled it form a machine that it's been functioning in perfectly. In fact, I'll probably pull the NIC when I part with the machine (although I like to leave NICs in machines I give away/build for others so I can easilly connect to me LAN if I need to troubleshoot at any stage). Any thoughts folks? TIA. -- ~misfit~ |
#2
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On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:35:28 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote: Ok, I've built a strange system from parts. It's an Atrend 6310M mobo. It's an AT, Slot 1 board. I was quite pleased to get it as I have a lot of AT stuff (cases, PSUs etc) that I've been loathe to throw away. I welcomed the chance to use some with this board. I Googled the board and found a manual in .pdf format. It says that the board supports up to a PII450Mhz and 128MB SDRAM in each of it's two slots. Great thinks I, I can make a decent machine out of my AT stuff before I finally biff it (The back room is half-full of AT stuff, including two boxes of working PSUs). Something is wrong there, any box that can run a PII450 will accept at least 256MB (low-density) modules, 512MB or more total capacity. So I put it together with one 128MB module, 10/100 3Com NIC (I'm on a LAN here), 8MB AGP card (S3 but it's adequate for it's purpose), ISA Soundblaster 16, ISA Rockwell 56k modem and a two-port PCI-USB card. There are pins on the board for a USB header but I don't have the header and there are pins for a PS/2 header. I *do* have a header for a PS/2 mouse but it just has four wires in a row and I've tried fitting it either way to the pins on the mobo and it doesn't seem to work. I don't have a schematic for the board or a PS/2 port to work out how to/if I can successfully connect it. Being AT, it's going to have the 5V line connected to PSU main 5V rail, you could check continuity between any/all pins to 5V, and same for ground, and have two of the 4 figured out. The other two, try one way and if it won't work, swap the two's pin-positions and retry... just be sure the 5V and ground are right, an ohm reading would be a good followup to the initial continuity check. snip Ok, the problem. This machine runs Prime95 for 24 hours no problem. It runs SETI CLI sweet *but*, I have the monitor set to turn off after 10 minutes, no screen saver. If the machine has completed a SETI WU and it's got the monitor turned off it locks up. No mouse movement or pounding of keyboard will wake it. A hard re-set is needed. This has happened three times and every time the first thing the PC does when it starts is complete the last 10 seconds of a SETI WU and then connect to get another one. It's connecting through my LAN at the moment. You might see if the NIC driver properties has different settings for power management, and see if any bios settings seem related and enable them... hard to say on an old lower-end board like that. Some boards with power management wakeup problems, benefit from bios update. At any other time I can just move the mouse slightly and the monitor springs to life, it's only at the conclusion of a SETI WU that this problem occurs *So far*. You might try running SETI locally instead of across lan and see if problem persists... I'd wondering if the NIC isn't responding. Ok, the person I'm gonna give it to isn't going to run SETI but this could be indicitive of a larger problem. Any Ideas? I was wondering if it's maybe happening as a consequence of the machine trying to access the network while the monitor is off? LOL, i should read ahead more often. I don't know. The NIC is fine, (3Com) I pulled it form a machine that it's been functioning in perfectly. In fact, I'll probably pull the NIC when I part with the machine (although I like to leave NICs in machines I give away/build for others so I can easilly connect to me LAN if I need to troubleshoot at any stage). Any thoughts folks? TIA. I'd probably use/leave a cheaper NIC in it, presuming the 3COM 10/100 is PCI, not ISA, since it'd be better used for NAS box than an old AT box. Something else I now wonder is if the system has 3.3V for the NIC at all, you might actually be better off with an older NIC. Since I have old 10Mb 3COM ISA NICs I can't reuse in modern boxes, that's what i'd try & leave in it, for free at least, if NIC was part of a system requirement then perhaps a better (faster) NIC. You might see if the board can be identified in a PCChips et al flavor, or links followed produce the pinouts for similar boards, http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/pcchips/ |
#3
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kony wrote:
On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:35:28 +1200, "~misfit~" wrote: Ok, I've built a strange system from parts. It's an Atrend 6310M mobo. It's an AT, Slot 1 board. I was quite pleased to get it as I have a lot of AT stuff (cases, PSUs etc) that I've been loathe to throw away. I welcomed the chance to use some with this board. I Googled the board and found a manual in .pdf format. It says that the board supports up to a PII450Mhz and 128MB SDRAM in each of it's two slots. Great thinks I, I can make a decent machine out of my AT stuff before I finally biff it (The back room is half-full of AT stuff, including two boxes of working PSUs). Something is wrong there, any box that can run a PII450 will accept at least 256MB (low-density) modules, 512MB or more total capacity. I'm not sure about this one. All I know is it's a strange and uncommon board. It didn't have a SECC retainer fitted and hadn't had one when I got it. Just the slot. From what I remember it was only very early boards that were like this. It's a VX chipset and, until I found the manual, wouldn't have dreamed of trying a Deschutes CPU in it, I originally set it up with a Klamath, then found the manual on-line so put the 450 in. So I put it together with one 128MB module, 10/100 3Com NIC (I'm on a LAN here), 8MB AGP card (S3 but it's adequate for it's purpose), ISA Soundblaster 16, ISA Rockwell 56k modem and a two-port PCI-USB card. There are pins on the board for a USB header but I don't have the header and there are pins for a PS/2 header. I *do* have a header for a PS/2 mouse but it just has four wires in a row and I've tried fitting it either way to the pins on the mobo and it doesn't seem to work. I don't have a schematic for the board or a PS/2 port to work out how to/if I can successfully connect it. Being AT, it's going to have the 5V line connected to PSU main 5V rail, you could check continuity between any/all pins to 5V, and same for ground, and have two of the 4 figured out. The other two, try one way and if it won't work, swap the two's pin-positions and retry... just be sure the 5V and ground are right, an ohm reading would be a good followup to the initial continuity check. Cheers, my multimeter is a very basic model. I may have a play and see what I can do. Ok, the problem. This machine runs Prime95 for 24 hours no problem. It runs SETI CLI sweet *but*, I have the monitor set to turn off after 10 minutes, no screen saver. If the machine has completed a SETI WU and it's got the monitor turned off it locks up. No mouse movement or pounding of keyboard will wake it. A hard re-set is needed. This has happened three times and every time the first thing the PC does when it starts is complete the last 10 seconds of a SETI WU and then connect to get another one. It's connecting through my LAN at the moment. You might see if the NIC driver properties has different settings for power management, and see if any bios settings seem related and enable them... hard to say on an old lower-end board like that. I can't find anything relevant. Some boards with power management wakeup problems, benefit from bios update. I can't find a BIOS update for it. It doesn't have a very large web-presence. I got the manual from he www.elhvb.com/mboards/ a-trend/manuals/ Atrend 6310M At any other time I can just move the mouse slightly and the monitor springs to life, it's only at the conclusion of a SETI WU that this problem occurs *So far*. You might try running SETI locally instead of across lan and see if problem persists... I'd wondering if the NIC isn't responding. It's running locally, it just needs the NIC when it want's to get a new WU from Berkeley. Ok, the person I'm gonna give it to isn't going to run SETI but this could be indicitive of a larger problem. Any Ideas? I was wondering if it's maybe happening as a consequence of the machine trying to access the network while the monitor is off? LOL, i should read ahead more often. g I don't know. The NIC is fine, (3Com) I pulled it form a machine that it's been functioning in perfectly. In fact, I'll probably pull the NIC when I part with the machine (although I like to leave NICs in machines I give away/build for others so I can easilly connect to me LAN if I need to troubleshoot at any stage). Any thoughts folks? TIA. I'd probably use/leave a cheaper NIC in it, presuming the 3COM 10/100 is PCI, not ISA, since it'd be better used for NAS box than an old AT box. Something else I now wonder is if the system has 3.3V for the NIC at all, you might actually be better off with an older NIC. Since I have old 10Mb 3COM ISA NICs I can't reuse in modern boxes, that's what i'd try & leave in it, for free at least, if NIC was part of a system requirement then perhaps a better (faster) NIC. I don't have a spare ISA slot in it but I do have one or two 10/Base-T PCI cards. I'll put one of those in. You might see if the board can be identified in a PCChips et al flavor, or links followed produce the pinouts for similar boards, http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/pcchips/ You know, it's *almost* this board: http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q39...cpics/m726.gif Linked from that page except mine has an Intel chipset, the third SDRAM slot nearest the AGP slot is missing (but there is allowance for it) and the FDD connection on mine is over by the serial/parallel connectors (which are also oriented at 90° to the ones on that board. At first glance I thought that was it. Thanks for your input Dave. -- ~misfit~ |
#4
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~misfit~ wrote:
kony wrote: On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 11:35:28 +1200, "~misfit~" wrote: Ok, I've built a strange system from parts. It's an Atrend 6310M mobo. It's an AT, Slot 1 board. I was quite pleased to get it as I have a lot of AT stuff (cases, PSUs etc) that I've been loathe to throw away. I welcomed the chance to use some with this board. I Googled the board and found a manual in .pdf format. It says that the board supports up to a PII450Mhz and 128MB SDRAM in each of it's two slots. Great thinks I, I can make a decent machine out of my AT stuff before I finally biff it (The back room is half-full of AT stuff, including two boxes of working PSUs). Something is wrong there, any box that can run a PII450 will accept at least 256MB (low-density) modules, 512MB or more total capacity. I'm not sure about this one. All I know is it's a strange and uncommon board. It didn't have a SECC retainer fitted and hadn't had one when I got it. Just the slot. From what I remember it was only very early boards that were like this. It's a VX chipset My bad, it's a ZX chipset. and, until I found the manual, wouldn't have dreamed of trying a Deschutes CPU in it, I originally set it up with a Klamath, then found the manual on-line so put the 450 in. So I put it together with one 128MB module, 10/100 3Com NIC (I'm on a LAN here), 8MB AGP card (S3 but it's adequate for it's purpose), ISA Soundblaster 16, ISA Rockwell 56k modem and a two-port PCI-USB card. There are pins on the board for a USB header but I don't have the header and there are pins for a PS/2 header. I *do* have a header for a PS/2 mouse but it just has four wires in a row and I've tried fitting it either way to the pins on the mobo and it doesn't seem to work. I don't have a schematic for the board or a PS/2 port to work out how to/if I can successfully connect it. Being AT, it's going to have the 5V line connected to PSU main 5V rail, you could check continuity between any/all pins to 5V, and same for ground, and have two of the 4 figured out. The other two, try one way and if it won't work, swap the two's pin-positions and retry... just be sure the 5V and ground are right, an ohm reading would be a good followup to the initial continuity check. Cheers, my multimeter is a very basic model. I may have a play and see what I can do. Ok, the problem. This machine runs Prime95 for 24 hours no problem. It runs SETI CLI sweet *but*, I have the monitor set to turn off after 10 minutes, no screen saver. If the machine has completed a SETI WU and it's got the monitor turned off it locks up. No mouse movement or pounding of keyboard will wake it. A hard re-set is needed. This has happened three times and every time the first thing the PC does when it starts is complete the last 10 seconds of a SETI WU and then connect to get another one. It's connecting through my LAN at the moment. You might see if the NIC driver properties has different settings for power management, and see if any bios settings seem related and enable them... hard to say on an old lower-end board like that. I can't find anything relevant. Some boards with power management wakeup problems, benefit from bios update. I can't find a BIOS update for it. It doesn't have a very large web-presence. I got the manual from he www.elhvb.com/mboards/ a-trend/manuals/ Atrend 6310M At any other time I can just move the mouse slightly and the monitor springs to life, it's only at the conclusion of a SETI WU that this problem occurs *So far*. You might try running SETI locally instead of across lan and see if problem persists... I'd wondering if the NIC isn't responding. It's running locally, it just needs the NIC when it want's to get a new WU from Berkeley. Ok, the person I'm gonna give it to isn't going to run SETI but this could be indicitive of a larger problem. Any Ideas? I was wondering if it's maybe happening as a consequence of the machine trying to access the network while the monitor is off? LOL, i should read ahead more often. g I don't know. The NIC is fine, (3Com) I pulled it form a machine that it's been functioning in perfectly. In fact, I'll probably pull the NIC when I part with the machine (although I like to leave NICs in machines I give away/build for others so I can easilly connect to me LAN if I need to troubleshoot at any stage). Any thoughts folks? TIA. I'd probably use/leave a cheaper NIC in it, presuming the 3COM 10/100 is PCI, not ISA, since it'd be better used for NAS box than an old AT box. Something else I now wonder is if the system has 3.3V for the NIC at all, you might actually be better off with an older NIC. Since I have old 10Mb 3COM ISA NICs I can't reuse in modern boxes, that's what i'd try & leave in it, for free at least, if NIC was part of a system requirement then perhaps a better (faster) NIC. I don't have a spare ISA slot in it but I do have one or two 10/Base-T PCI cards. I'll put one of those in. You might see if the board can be identified in a PCChips et al flavor, or links followed produce the pinouts for similar boards, http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142/pcchips/ You know, it's *almost* this board: http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q39...cpics/m726.gif Linked from that page except mine has an Intel chipset, the third SDRAM slot nearest the AGP slot is missing (but there is allowance for it) and the FDD connection on mine is over by the serial/parallel connectors (which are also oriented at 90° to the ones on that board. At first glance I thought that was it. Thanks for your input Dave. |
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On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:52:38 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote: Something is wrong there, any box that can run a PII450 will accept at least 256MB (low-density) modules, 512MB or more total capacity. I'm not sure about this one. All I know is it's a strange and uncommon board. It didn't have a SECC retainer fitted and hadn't had one when I got it. Just the slot. From what I remember it was only very early boards that were like this. It's a VX chipset and, until I found the manual, wouldn't have dreamed of trying a Deschutes CPU in it, I originally set it up with a Klamath, then found the manual on-line so put the 450 in. It may even support a Coppermine with the right slotket, maybe even Tualatin same as typical BX chipset board would, except that's probably beyond the capabilities of the voltage regulator circuit, especially extended use at near full load, like SETI/etc would cause. ZX should support low-density 256MB modules, but stability of *anything* on such a low-end, aged board, could be harder to attain. Ok, the problem. This machine runs Prime95 for 24 hours no problem. It runs SETI CLI sweet *but*, I have the monitor set to turn off after 10 minutes, no screen saver. If the machine has completed a SETI WU and it's got the monitor turned off it locks up. No mouse movement or pounding of keyboard will wake it. A hard re-set is needed. This has happened three times and every time the first thing the PC does when it starts is complete the last 10 seconds of a SETI WU and then connect to get another one. It's connecting through my LAN at the moment. You might see if the NIC driver properties has different settings for power management, and see if any bios settings seem related and enable them... hard to say on an old lower-end board like that. I can't find anything relevant. Maybe just leaving the monitor disconnected & off, then never allowing OS to shut it off would suffice? Some boards with power management wakeup problems, benefit from bios update. I can't find a BIOS update for it. It doesn't have a very large web-presence. I got the manual from he www.elhvb.com/mboards/ a-trend/manuals/ Atrend 6310M You might find that other PCChips et al boards' bios would work, providing the I/O chip and chipset are same (or perhaps one with BX chipset would work too, unsure about this. I do think the board was designed to accomodate either chip, hence the missing 3rd dimm slot when ZX is used... don't recall the other limitations of ZX vs BX at the moment. You know, it's *almost* this board: http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q39...cpics/m726.gif Linked from that page except mine has an Intel chipset, the third SDRAM slot nearest the AGP slot is missing (but there is allowance for it) and the FDD connection on mine is over by the serial/parallel connectors (which are also oriented at 90° to the ones on that board. At first glance I thought that was it. Thanks for your input Dave. I'm pretty much out of ideas, beyond looking at power management and trying a different NIC and/or NIC driver. I'd probably just turn off monitor manually and disable all power management except HDD spin-down, if access to the drive can be delayed long enough... if not then perhaps a ramdrive for storage, any file I/O happening that would otherwise keep HDD spinning. Then again I vaguely recall that there's some sort of diskless client potential for SETI, if you set up boxes like that it wouldn't need the HDD, monitor, etc. |
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kony wrote:
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:52:38 +1200, "~misfit~" wrote: Something is wrong there, any box that can run a PII450 will accept at least 256MB (low-density) modules, 512MB or more total capacity. I'm not sure about this one. All I know is it's a strange and uncommon board. It didn't have a SECC retainer fitted and hadn't had one when I got it. Just the slot. From what I remember it was only very early boards that were like this. It's a VX chipset and, until I found the manual, wouldn't have dreamed of trying a Deschutes CPU in it, I originally set it up with a Klamath, then found the manual on-line so put the 450 in. It may even support a Coppermine with the right slotket, maybe even Tualatin same as typical BX chipset board would, except that's probably beyond the capabilities of the voltage regulator circuit, especially extended use at near full load, like SETI/etc would cause. I have a couple of Tualatin's running in Slot-T's in BX boards already. Great combo. ZX should support low-density 256MB modules, but stability of *anything* on such a low-end, aged board, could be harder to attain. I was given this, the CPU was sitting around, IMO it's a 98 machine anyway and 128MB is fine for 98. With these Tualatins I'm running in BX boards I'm actually getting a little low on SDRAM anyway. Especially as a 256MB module I had been given a while ago but hadn't tested turned out to be stuffed when I tried it last month. Ok, the problem. This machine runs Prime95 for 24 hours no problem. It runs SETI CLI sweet *but*, I have the monitor set to turn off after 10 minutes, no screen saver. If the machine has completed a SETI WU and it's got the monitor turned off it locks up. No mouse movement or pounding of keyboard will wake it. A hard re-set is needed. This has happened three times and every time the first thing the PC does when it starts is complete the last 10 seconds of a SETI WU and then connect to get another one. It's connecting through my LAN at the moment. You might see if the NIC driver properties has different settings for power management, and see if any bios settings seem related and enable them... hard to say on an old lower-end board like that. I can't find anything relevant. Maybe just leaving the monitor disconnected & off, then never allowing OS to shut it off would suffice? Yeah. I was thinking about giving this to a PC-less family and wanted it to be as stable as possible. Some boards with power management wakeup problems, benefit from bios update. I can't find a BIOS update for it. It doesn't have a very large web-presence. I got the manual from he www.elhvb.com/mboards/ a-trend/manuals/ Atrend 6310M You might find that other PCChips et al boards' bios would work, providing the I/O chip and chipset are same (or perhaps one with BX chipset would work too, unsure about this. I do think the board was designed to accomodate either chip, hence the missing 3rd dimm slot when ZX is used... don't recall the other limitations of ZX vs BX at the moment. I take it that PCChips and Atrend are one and the same from this line of discussion? I know little about them other than to avoid them (or so I'm told). The one PCChips board I had ran a P200MMX at 250Mhz rock-solid for ages. I've never had an Atrend before. You know, it's *almost* this board: http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q39...cpics/m726.gif Linked from that page except mine has an Intel chipset, the third SDRAM slot nearest the AGP slot is missing (but there is allowance for it) and the FDD connection on mine is over by the serial/parallel connectors (which are also oriented at 90° to the ones on that board. At first glance I thought that was it. Thanks for your input Dave. I'm pretty much out of ideas, beyond looking at power management and trying a different NIC and/or NIC driver. I've put a 10/base-T PCI Realtek card in it for now. I'll see how it goes when the next SETI unit is finished. LOL, that's the difficulty with trying to troubleshoot this, I have to wait 10 hours or so for it to complete a SETI unit and attempt to connect (at least I think that's the trigger for the problem) to the LAN while the monitor is off in power-saving mode to reproduce the fault. I'd probably just turn off monitor manually and disable all power management except HDD spin-down, if access to the drive can be delayed long enough... if not then perhaps a ramdrive for storage, any file I/O happening that would otherwise keep HDD spinning. Then again I vaguely recall that there's some sort of diskless client potential for SETI, if you set up boxes like that it wouldn't need the HDD, monitor, etc. Cheers Dave, -- ~misfit~ |
#7
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On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:59:15 +1200, "~misfit~"
wrote: It may even support a Coppermine with the right slotket, maybe even Tualatin same as typical BX chipset board would, except that's probably beyond the capabilities of the voltage regulator circuit, especially extended use at near full load, like SETI/etc would cause. I have a couple of Tualatin's running in Slot-T's in BX boards already. Great combo. Yep, it's just that this particular board you have may be less robustly engineered. Maybe just leaving the monitor disconnected & off, then never allowing OS to shut it off would suffice? Yeah. I was thinking about giving this to a PC-less family and wanted it to be as stable as possible. You might see if it's using ACPI power management, and if so, revert to APM management, which may require OS reinstall in addition to whatever other measures needed... don't remember. You might find that other PCChips et al boards' bios would work, providing the I/O chip and chipset are same (or perhaps one with BX chipset would work too, unsure about this. I do think the board was designed to accomodate either chip, hence the missing 3rd dimm slot when ZX is used... don't recall the other limitations of ZX vs BX at the moment. I take it that PCChips and Atrend are one and the same from this line of discussion? I know little about them other than to avoid them (or so I'm told). The one PCChips board I had ran a P200MMX at 250Mhz rock-solid for ages. I've never had an Atrend before. I think they're loosely related at a minimum, if not rolling off a parallel line in same factory, just a different name on them. Of course there's a distinct possibility the board wouldn't work with a different bios, but i suspect you have enough spare boards lying around that you could find a way to reflash the bios prom if necessary. |
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