Not OT, right on topic: Ridiculous prices+rich(?) people=inflation in the market

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 11:11:14 -0400, "GT-Force"
wrote:

I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.

Care to qualify that statement? Even low end cards cost that, there
has never been a medium to high end card costing that little.
--
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Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
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"GT-Force" wrote in message
...

I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact
paying
these ridiculous graphics card bills.

1) R&D costs money.
2) Manufacture costs money. The manufacture of a new product initially
costs more than an existing and established product.
3) Marketting costs money.
4) Distribution costs money.

nVidia (and ATI) *need* to make the above effort worth their while so
as to recoup any investments made. That means high initial prices, which
will be most evident in step 2 above.

Once the latest generation are establish and the nVidia and ATI are
comfortably in the red with regards their newest offerings, the
manufacturing
costs are reduced (bulk fabrication is cheaper than one unit here and one
there, which is close to the case now) and the bean counters are happy with
the returns, the prices will go down. It's the same with every product,
regardless of its intendent audience.

(Unless you live in Great Britain, of course. Where, unlike most over
countries
"charge what it's worth" applies, it's customary to "charge what you can get
away with".)

You have to remember, to many, its not a rediculous price. For many, the
difference between 300 and 500 is nothing. I can remember when the voodoo
2's came out and many people were buying two 300 dollar cards to have twice
the fill rate (that was the only gain for buying the second card).

For me what has changed in the industry, while there are a few cutting edge
games for the pc, is the software market has gone to the consoles. I just
picked up a xbox last week because there just isn't enough software anymore
for the pc for it to be my only gaming platform. I bought it with money I
had set aside for a new video card (I am running a Gforce 3 right now).
Instead of buying a 6800 Ultra, most likely, I will buy a GT in a couple of
months. When I got into PC gaming in 1990, a low end system was $1000 and
top of the line was $3000. It's still the same now with exception of you
can go a bit cheaper and a bit more expensive (the gap has gotten wider).
Also I can remember buying strike commander (cutting edge gaming software)
for $60 and paying another $20 for the speech pack. Software is exactly
the same price as before (with the exeption of more budget software now) as
it was 10 years ago (even 20 years ago if you look at the old 8-bit computer
stuff).
--
Mickster

Visit my website and see my arcade!!

http://mickster.freeservers.com

"GT-Force" wrote in message
...
This is exactly what I was writing about.
GT

"tq96" wrote in message
...
edge state of the art. Total cost, 8 years ago, over $500. Total cost
today, at least $550. So how have things changed costwise, exactly?

Several years ago, NVidia's flagship product was the TNT2 Ultra. The
price
was about $250. Now it's the Geforce 6800 Ultra @ $500. That's a 100%
increase.

Software cost a tremendous amout of to develop, but each extra copy
costs very little to make. It is hard to plan a pricing strategy that will
maximize profits for the game makers. Perhaps in the future we might
see inovative pricing for games, such as a strategy of not dropping the
price for a game, but offering the consumer a chance to buy a game
that is no longer selling so well at a big discount if bought at the same
time as the more current game.


GT-Force wrote:

"Blahguy" wrote in message
...
I think you are naive. If you think product x is too expensive then don't
buy it.

That's what I am already doing, but my point was not it. My point was the
inflated, overpriced games and hardware.

As you said, if they can afford to sell it for lower, as they are doing in
other countries, why not in US? Because customers are willing to and do pay
more. This is the ONLY reason for these ridiculous prices, I think.

GT

They're milking us, I say... milking the little people! Those corporate
swine!

Tony.

lmao!


I think Bill Gates put it best when he said "You wanna play, you gotta pay!"

That's what I am already doing, but my point was not it. My point was the
inflated, overpriced games and hardware.


The prices are not really inflated. If they were you would be paying a lot more
then $50 for a game.

I've been involved with computers and gaming for a long time.

In the mid 80's memory was just as expensive as it is now and you got a lot
less for your money, same thing with hard drives and video cards.
Games were just as expensive back then the prices have not really increased. If
the game was new the price was around $50. I remember buying a few.

Also consider this.

How much computer power would you get in 1985 for $1000, compared to a system
you can buy today for that same $1000?

Now compare the prices of cars from 1985 to now.

"GT-Force" wrote:
Hi,

I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in fact paying
these ridiculous graphics card bills.

I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics card.
Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than those days',
I still think that especially latest generation cards are way overpriced.
$600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and quick!
The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by paying for these
ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad they will.
Why would not they? If I could sell something for the most that I could sell
it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why would I sell it for any lower,
right?

Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example is
Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card prices are
already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the game prices now.

Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than this.
Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.

What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.

GT


I think graphics card prices have always been very high, at least in
the country I live in. The maximum price I saw for the GeForce 6800
Ultra was ridiculously high, topping at over 800 euros! Most basic
6800s are still around 350 to 400 euros, which to me is way too much
even to think of upgrading from GeForce 5900 XT or Radeon 9800 Pro.
6800 GT is on the same price level now than GeForce 2 GTS was a few
years back in my area. The prices need to come down about 50 euros
before I consider upgrading to a 6800. Make no mistake, those 5900XTs
and 9800 Pros are still handy, but we have reached a new level of
graphics with "Far Cry" and "Doom 3", and we'll beginning to see more
intense and heavy gaming environments in the fall and early spring
2005. 30 to 40 frame-rates at 1024 x 768 is tolerable, but my cards
are only a notch away from the low end experience. Those who are
impatient of waiting and want to upgrade now, don't really lose any
money, if you look at it in the long term, but those 400 buckaroos are
still 400 buckaroos = 2 x Xboxes. In that retrospect, it is a tough
price to break through without cringing.

Nada wrote:
"GT-Force" wrote:
Hi,

I just can't help but see that people are not ****ed off, but in
fact paying these ridiculous graphics card bills.

I remember the days we were paying $65 for a really good graphics
card. Although I know that todays's cards are way way different than
those days', I still think that especially latest generation cards
are way overpriced. $600?!? $500? Please, even $400?

Always remember: If no one buys them, the prices WILL go down, and
quick! The rich, or dumb, pull the prices up, and keep them up by
paying for these ridiculous price tags; and we all loose!

The companies will milk the bejeesus out of us, if they can, nad
they will. Why would not they? If I could sell something for the
most that I could sell it for,i.e., not for what it's worth, why
would I sell it for any lower, right?

Same applies to latest (especially hyped) games, a very good example
is Doom3. $55 for a game? Good God! No way I am paying that. Card
prices are already inflated, I am not going to help inflating the
game prices now.

Come on people, THINK and ACT! Please...
I thought that the 'computer community' was a little smarter than
this. Let's not be herd by the marketers of these companies.

What do you think? Spell your guts, it's your turn.

GT


I think graphics card prices have always been very high, at least in
the country I live in. The maximum price I saw for the GeForce 6800
Ultra was ridiculously high, topping at over 800 euros! Most basic
6800s are still around 350 to 400 euros, which to me is way too much
even to think of upgrading from GeForce 5900 XT or Radeon 9800 Pro.
6800 GT is on the same price level now than GeForce 2 GTS was a few
years back in my area. The prices need to come down about 50 euros
before I consider upgrading to a 6800. Make no mistake, those 5900XTs
and 9800 Pros are still handy, but we have reached a new level of
graphics with "Far Cry" and "Doom 3", and we'll beginning to see more
intense and heavy gaming environments in the fall and early spring
2005. 30 to 40 frame-rates at 1024 x 768 is tolerable, but my cards
are only a notch away from the low end experience. Those who are
impatient of waiting and want to upgrade now, don't really lose any
money, if you look at it in the long term, but those 400 buckaroos are
still 400 buckaroos = 2 x Xboxes. In that retrospect, it is a tough
price to break through without cringing.

Supply and demand, it's a dog eat dog world here My very first Video
Card cost me $269.95 back in 1987. That card had been out for a couple
years when I bought one. There weren't so many computers to put things
in, so demand being somewhat low (extremely low by todays standards),
there wasn't really any push to develop new technology. Who was gonna
buy it? New ideas, newer faster systems, newer standards. VGA. yeah,
good one. That standard gave us LOTS more than 2, 4 or even 16 colors!
Yep, 256. That video card was an ATI VGA Wonder 1.0 512K card. VGA
was fairly new, but that card had dual outputs, EGA and VGA, plus a PS2
mouse port. Very advanced. I used that card for more than five years
without a though to upgrading it. Until I couldn't play DOOM with that
system!
Necessity is the Mother of Invention. Just an offshoot of
supply/demand.
You guys are right, the vendors won't charge more than they believe the
market will bear. But with hot games and gamer enthusiasts, that market
will bear a lot. The vendors are trying to edge the cutting edge
pricepoint up every time they come out with something major/new. When
it doesn't 'go Gold' before it hits the shelves, then they drop the
price. No pre-orders? Hm...knock 40 off. And so on....
McG.

PRIVATE1964 wrote:
Doom 3 seems like a game I would be willing to pay $50 for, as did
Fleet Defender in 1994.


I bet it won't have a tenth of the gaming value that Fleet Defender did,
though. :-)
--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.

I bet it won't have a tenth of the gaming value that Fleet Defender did,
though. :-)
--
chainbreaker

That's probably true. I bought Fleet Defender on impulse. Something I very
rarely do with games. I usually wait for a few reviews before buying any game.
That way I have less chance of buying garbage.

Fleet Defender turned out to be a very good flight sim with good graphics for
that time. I held on to it for the longest time until I upgraded to Windows XP
and didn't want to be bothered using dos anymore.
Recently I learned someone created software to run dos in WinXP, sure wish I
had my good dos games back!