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#21
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:52:33 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:
The little lost angel wrote: But this is sad news, I hate to think I've to live with a trackpad only replacement when my T30 gives up the ghost another year or two down the road I still don't get this, there are so many pressure-stick fans out there? I've had two laptops with pressure-sticks (a Toshiba Satellite and the IBM, and I still have them, BTW); and two with touchpads (a Compaq and a Dell). I still much prefer the touchpads over the pressure-sticks anyday. For the last year or two, Thinkpads have generally had both (well the R series at least - we can't afford/justify the T series ones sigh). I must admit to using the Trackpoint far more often than the Trackpad though. But I have noticed that the R5x Thinkpads are way flimsier and seem crappier than the R3x and R4x ones were. Cheers Anton |
#22
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:52:33 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote:
The little lost angel wrote: But this is sad news, I hate to think I've to live with a trackpad only replacement when my T30 gives up the ghost another year or two down the road I still don't get this, there are so many pressure-stick fans out there? I've had two laptops with pressure-sticks (a Toshiba Satellite and the IBM, and I still have them, BTW); and two with touchpads (a Compaq and a Dell). I still much prefer the touchpads over the pressure-sticks anyday. I would guess that will the pressure-sticks disappearing that I'm not alone in my preference. The touchpads are much easier to learn than the pressure-sticks, and are usually much quicker to move around. Also the touchpads are much closer to actual mouse-like positioning than touchpads, whenever the manufacturer is smart enough to place the buttoms above the pad rather than below. Since we're having a "vote":-), I much prefer the pressure stick if I can't have a mouse. Touchpads seem to be in the same niche as mini-trackballs to me: looks like a great idea but in practice, falls short. In our office I've had to show people how to disable the touchpad because I got complaints about "keyboard problems" which were actually due to accidental touchpad err, touches. Touchpads are also the source of the drifting cursor problems on many notebooks, whether due to poor design/construction or accidental damage... like getting squashed/bent in the overhead of a 'plane. On the OP, I wonder how much Lenovo would tamper with the Thinkpad design... since it's been a very successful line over the years. The machines are all made in China now AFAICT, so it's possible that they might keep everything as is for a few years before trying to "improve" it. From what I've been able to gather Lenovo has a good reputation as a mfr in China and has very high quality standards. If they have a clue, they'll spin off a company known as something like Thinkpad or Thinksys Corp. (assuming they get a license to the name as part of the deal) and keep the quality. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
#23
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:30:08 -0500, George Macdonald wrote:
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:52:33 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote: The little lost angel wrote: But this is sad news, I hate to think I've to live with a trackpad only replacement when my T30 gives up the ghost another year or two down the road I still don't get this, there are so many pressure-stick fans out there? I've had two laptops with pressure-sticks (a Toshiba Satellite and the IBM, and I still have them, BTW); and two with touchpads (a Compaq and a Dell). I still much prefer the touchpads over the pressure-sticks anyday. I would guess that will the pressure-sticks disappearing that I'm not alone in my preference. The touchpads are much easier to learn than the pressure-sticks, and are usually much quicker to move around. Also the touchpads are much closer to actual mouse-like positioning than touchpads, whenever the manufacturer is smart enough to place the buttoms above the pad rather than below. Since we're having a "vote":-), I much prefer the pressure stick if I can't have a mouse. Touchpads seem to be in the same niche as mini-trackballs to me: looks like a great idea but in practice, falls short. I agree 100%. Track-sticks are a poor excuse for a rodent, but they're better than any alternative. I have a long history of tendonitis in my hands (fortunately not too muchh problems for a few years) and as such I'm very sensitive to wrist motions. I know people who simply love tracck-balls, but I can't get past trying them in the store. Goood mice are a must (my current fav is the Logitech 700 optical/rechargable. I reached im my hip and bought one for work I like it so much. OTOH, I had some "desktop" keyboards (buckling spring, of course I used in tight locations (lab benches) and the track-sticks sucked. The trackball mounted to the upper right corner worked far better in that application. Perhaps the difference was that it was a "tool" rather than a "workstation", though it was the same sort of applications the usage was different. In our office I've had to show people how to disable the touchpad because I got complaints about "keyboard problems" which were actually due to accidental touchpad err, touches. Touchpads are also the source of the drifting cursor problems on many notebooks, whether due to poor design/construction or accidental damage... like getting squashed/bent in the overhead of a 'plane. My antique (and crappy) 600EL had a drifting cursor problem. The A21p is perfect. Though they're replacing 4YO ThinkPads, I'm not giving this one up. On the OP, I wonder how much Lenovo would tamper with the Thinkpad design... since it's been a very successful line over the years. The machines are all made in China now AFAICT, so it's possible that they might keep everything as is for a few years before trying to "improve" it. From what I've been able to gather Lenovo has a good reputation as a mfr in China and has very high quality standards. If they have a clue, they'll spin off a company known as something like Thinkpad or Thinksys Corp. (assuming they get a license to the name as part of the deal) and keep the quality. FWIG, this isn't in the cards. The reports were apparently a tad premature. *YOY* would IBM give up their name? Why would anyone buy the line without it? -- Keith |
#24
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On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 01:46:50 -0500, Yousuf Khan
wrote: Gary L. wrote: So my question is: what other options exist? I want similar build quality as compared to the ThinkPad, decent driver support, good battery life and freedom from pre-installed garbage like AOL, previews of Disney games and MS Works. I don't know, maybe an Acer Ferrari notebook? :-) They are supposed to be using the special Ferrari car paint on those things' cases (yeah, right!), so I would assume it's a metallic casing too. And it will allow you to out-pose the Mac-crack posers. Well, it's probably as close as I'll get to owning an Italian sports car. One option that I've been looking at are the Fujitsu laptops. They are advertising that they emphasize reliability and quality. There is a multi-page ad in the current edition of PC Mag touting this product as a reliable business notebook (maybe they knew something?)They have some Centrino systems (S7000 series) that seem similar in specifications to the T series. One model that caught my eye was the S2020 that has an AMD XP-M 2200 CPU, an ATI/ALi chip set with integrated ATI graphics. It is quite light (under 4 lbs) and the 13" screen will be adequate for mobile use. They advertise 6 hours of battery life. I did see a Fujitsu notebook at Fry's some time back and I can't say that I liked the feel of the keyboard. Anyone have any experience with Fujitsu notebooks in general or the S2020 in particular? - - Gary L. Reply to the newsgroup only |
#25
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:52:33 -0500, Yousuf Khan
wrote: I still don't get this, there are so many pressure-stick fans out there? I've had two laptops with pressure-sticks (a Toshiba Satellite and the IBM, and I still have them, BTW); and two with touchpads (a Compaq and a Dell). I still much prefer the touchpads over the pressure-sticks anyday. Every time I shop for a new laptop, I give the touchpads a try in the vain hope that they finally figured out a magical way to make it look like I'm not somebody with giant fingers. They haven't succeeded. I would guess that will the pressure-sticks disappearing that I'm not alone in my preference. The touchpads are much easier to learn than the pressure-sticks, and are usually much quicker to move around. Also the touchpads are much closer to actual mouse-like positioning than touchpads, whenever the manufacturer is smart enough to place the buttoms above the pad rather than below. The thing with touchpads are they are so imprecise and hard to control. Sure they are easy to move around... they move with the slightest touch giving hell of a problem with I type. When I first got my T30, it used to freak me out why the stupid cursor was flying all over the place when I typed. Until I remembered it had a touchpad which promptly got disabled of course. With a pressure stick, I can do pixel by pixel movements in photoshop as well as perform almost any pointing stunt I can do with the mouse. With the touchpad, the only stunt that's happening is how fast my frustration rises pPpPp Yes, the touchpad IS easier to use, most people can use it with the barest of instructions. But as my friend suggested and I tried, playing an hour or two of solitaire and minesweeper on it makes you very proficient very quickly. But since you're a nice guy, Yousof, I'll refrain from making comments about lazy bummers & idiot-proof like Windows. ;PpPpPP -- L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work. If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript. If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too. But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code |
#26
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In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips keith wrote:
FWIG, this isn't in the cards. The reports were apparently a tad premature. *YOY* would IBM give up their name? Why would anyone buy the line without it? Two excellent questions. I can see some fit (IBM design expertise matched with Lenovo mfg cost advantage) but the marketing side is scarey as always. Lexmark may be the pattern. Perhaps the Chinese only want the skills? Does White Plains have any qualms selling lifers down the river? -- Robert |
#27
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 02:43:15 GMT, Gary L. wrote:
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 01:46:50 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote: Gary L. wrote: So my question is: what other options exist? I want similar build quality as compared to the ThinkPad, decent driver support, good battery life and freedom from pre-installed garbage like AOL, previews of Disney games and MS Works. I don't know, maybe an Acer Ferrari notebook? :-) They are supposed to be using the special Ferrari car paint on those things' cases (yeah, right!), so I would assume it's a metallic casing too. And it will allow you to out-pose the Mac-crack posers. Well, it's probably as close as I'll get to owning an Italian sports car. One option that I've been looking at are the Fujitsu laptops. They are advertising that they emphasize reliability and quality. There is a multi-page ad in the current edition of PC Mag touting this product as a reliable business notebook (maybe they knew something?)They have some Centrino systems (S7000 series) that seem similar in specifications to the T series. One model that caught my eye was the S2020 that has an AMD XP-M 2200 CPU, an ATI/ALi chip set with integrated ATI graphics. It is quite light (under 4 lbs) and the 13" screen will be adequate for mobile use. They advertise 6 hours of battery life. I did see a Fujitsu notebook at Fry's some time back and I can't say that I liked the feel of the keyboard. Anyone have any experience with Fujitsu notebooks in general or the S2020 in particular? It may not matter if you never travel out of your country with it but one thing I've noticed is that Fujitsu has completely different line-ups in different places - e.g. in Europe they market as Fujitsu-Siemens... with models we don't see in the U.S. Emergency repairs out of country *could* be impossible. I also didn't like their demarcation between Home/SOHO models which could only be found with WinXP Home and business models with WinXP Pro; a couple of the former I'd have liked to see with a Pro version - made no sense to me. At one time Toshiba used to make notebooks with cases about as well designed as IBM Thinkpads but the ones I've seen recently just didn't cut it for me. I've been wondering more about Asus and MSI who both make excellent mbrds but it's difficult to lay your hands on one to check it out. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
#28
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On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 20:20:05 -0500, keith wrote:
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:30:08 -0500, George Macdonald wrote: On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 07:52:33 -0500, Yousuf Khan wrote: The little lost angel wrote: But this is sad news, I hate to think I've to live with a trackpad only replacement when my T30 gives up the ghost another year or two down the road I still don't get this, there are so many pressure-stick fans out there? I've had two laptops with pressure-sticks (a Toshiba Satellite and the IBM, and I still have them, BTW); and two with touchpads (a Compaq and a Dell). I still much prefer the touchpads over the pressure-sticks anyday. I would guess that will the pressure-sticks disappearing that I'm not alone in my preference. The touchpads are much easier to learn than the pressure-sticks, and are usually much quicker to move around. Also the touchpads are much closer to actual mouse-like positioning than touchpads, whenever the manufacturer is smart enough to place the buttoms above the pad rather than below. Since we're having a "vote":-), I much prefer the pressure stick if I can't have a mouse. Touchpads seem to be in the same niche as mini-trackballs to me: looks like a great idea but in practice, falls short. I agree 100%. Track-sticks are a poor excuse for a rodent, but they're better than any alternative. I have a long history of tendonitis in my hands (fortunately not too muchh problems for a few years) and as such I'm very sensitive to wrist motions. I know people who simply love tracck-balls, but I can't get past trying them in the store. Goood mice are a must (my current fav is the Logitech 700 optical/rechargable. I reached im my hip and bought one for work I like it so much. Hmm, I'm resistant to cordless mice - batteries... bah! I currently have a Logitech Click! corded and I like it. OTOH, I had some "desktop" keyboards (buckling spring, of course I used in tight locations (lab benches) and the track-sticks sucked. The trackball mounted to the upper right corner worked far better in that application. Perhaps the difference was that it was a "tool" rather than a "workstation", though it was the same sort of applications the usage was different. In our office I've had to show people how to disable the touchpad because I got complaints about "keyboard problems" which were actually due to accidental touchpad err, touches. Touchpads are also the source of the drifting cursor problems on many notebooks, whether due to poor design/construction or accidental damage... like getting squashed/bent in the overhead of a 'plane. My antique (and crappy) 600EL had a drifting cursor problem. The A21p is perfect. Though they're replacing 4YO ThinkPads, I'm not giving this one up. The T42s really are very nice... once you get used to the idea of no PS/2 port and no floppy spindle. Yeah, USB is ugly but the USB floppy drives work fine... when the need is there, which is not that often. Make a bootable USB flash drive and the need is slim to non-existent. On the OP, I wonder how much Lenovo would tamper with the Thinkpad design... since it's been a very successful line over the years. The machines are all made in China now AFAICT, so it's possible that they might keep everything as is for a few years before trying to "improve" it. From what I've been able to gather Lenovo has a good reputation as a mfr in China and has very high quality standards. If they have a clue, they'll spin off a company known as something like Thinkpad or Thinksys Corp. (assuming they get a license to the name as part of the deal) and keep the quality. FWIG, this isn't in the cards. The reports were apparently a tad premature. *YOY* would IBM give up their name? Why would anyone buy the line without it? About what I'd have thought... so I'm not sure what IBM is supposedly brewing here acording to the reports. Without the Thinkxxx name the line is just baggage. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
#29
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:31:59 -0500, George Macdonald
wrote: Anyone have any experience with Fujitsu notebooks in general or the S2020 in particular? It may not matter if you never travel out of your country with it but one thing I've noticed is that Fujitsu has completely different line-ups in different places - e.g. in Europe they market as Fujitsu-Siemens... with models we don't see in the U.S. Emergency repairs out of country *could* be impossible. I seldom travel for business and never outside the U.S., so international support isn't an issue. But warranty service is an issue. I've had good luck with warranty repairs from IBM; typically with 2 day turn-around. I have no idea what Fujitsu's repair service is like. I also wonder about the availability of parts such as batteries. I also didn't like their demarcation between Home/SOHO models which could only be found with WinXP Home and business models with WinXP Pro; a couple of the former I'd have liked to see with a Pro version - made no sense to me. They seem to have quite a profileration of models for no apparent reason. The models I looked at all offered either Home or Pro (as an extra cost option), but I didn't look at any "desktop replacement" or "multimedia" machines. At one time Toshiba used to make notebooks with cases about as well designed as IBM Thinkpads but the ones I've seen recently just didn't cut it for me. That was my impression as well, but that was in comparison to what I could get in a ThinkPad. I've been wondering more about Asus and MSI who both make excellent mbrds but it's difficult to lay your hands on one to check it out. I've never seen one in person. What I *really* want is a thin and light notebook with a simple, sturdy plain monochrome case. No silvery-plastic multimedia buttons and no curvy plastic case with a glow-in-the-dark product badge. No pre-loaded AOL, no try-it-for-30-days-and-buy-it-software, no pre-loaded MS Works and MS Money. In other words, a ThinkPad. IBM discontinued my favorite buckling spring keyboard. And they discontinued my favorite operating system (OS/2). Now they are going to discontinue the notebook computer that I've relied on for years. This is beginning to affect my brand loyalty. - - Gary L. Reply to the newsgroup only |
#30
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On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 23:27:13 GMT, Gary L. wrote:
On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:31:59 -0500, George Macdonald wrote: At one time Toshiba used to make notebooks with cases about as well designed as IBM Thinkpads but the ones I've seen recently just didn't cut it for me. That was my impression as well, but that was in comparison to what I could get in a ThinkPad. Well yes, the shiny, black, flexy plastic case I saw in a Toshiba recently shocked me compared with what they used to do a few years ago - it didn't look like a serious business "road-warrior" machine at all. I've been wondering more about Asus and MSI who both make excellent mbrds but it's difficult to lay your hands on one to check it out. I've never seen one in person. What I *really* want is a thin and light notebook with a simple, sturdy plain monochrome case. No silvery-plastic multimedia buttons and no curvy plastic case with a glow-in-the-dark product badge. No pre-loaded AOL, no try-it-for-30-days-and-buy-it-software, no pre-loaded MS Works and MS Money. In other words, a ThinkPad. I'll bet you can live without the blinking blue lights as well.:-) What the hell is HP thinking? IBM discontinued my favorite buckling spring keyboard. And they discontinued my favorite operating system (OS/2). Now they are going to discontinue the notebook computer that I've relied on for years. This is beginning to affect my brand loyalty. It's difficult to sort out what the final outcome will be. Keith seems to suggest that IBM would not easily give up the Thinkpad brand name and that makes sense to me. Whoever makes them and under what arrangements, if the systems are still available at the same quality level and under similar terms, which still seems a possibility, this may all be just a storm in a teacup. Rgds, George Macdonald "Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me?? |
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