8KNXP O/C issues (AGP voltage and more)

I have recently upgraded my system. Pertinent components a

Gigabyte GA-8KNXP ver. 2.0 w/FH BIOS
Intel P4 2.8C CPU w/Thermalright SP-94 heatsink and 90mm Panaflo fan
1GB (2x512) Super Talent PC4000 (DDR500) memory
nVidia GeForce2 GTS graphics card (obviously not upgraded yet)
Adaptec 29160 U160 SCSI adapter (for hard drives)

BIOS Settings:

CPU Host Frequency - 240.5MHz (962.2 FSB; 3.3677 GHz)
Memory Freq. Formula - 2.0 (which means the memory and the CPU are
synchronous ... 1:1)
RAM - SPD settings (3-4-4-8)
Delayed Transaction - Enabled
PSB Parking - Enabled
Command Per Clock - Auto [disabled]
Fast Chip Select - Enabled
Dynamic Paging Mode - Auto [disabled]
Top Performance - Not enabled
RAM Voltage Control - +0.1v [net 2.6v, the specified value for the RAM
modules]
AGP Voltage Control - +0.3v
CPU Voltage Control - 1.5875v

Power Supply:

+3.3 rail yields 3.44
+5.0 rail yields 4.96
+12.0 rail yields 12.22

According to MBM, the power values stay constant (there is some
variation, but not much).

The system is stable (actually rock stable). The SP-94 heatsink is
awesome (45C max with Prime 95 ... starting at a base temp of 32C);
the CPU has definitely not reached it's overclock limit yet.

The issue I have is with RAM. When I put the system together (I put
the new MB into an existing system ... of course changing the chipset
drivers, etc), it was unstable. Windows XP Pro would randomly crash
(spontaneous reboot, not BSOD). After *much* experimentation (and
sending one of the RAM modules back to the mfr. to be tested; it was
fine), I determined that I could get stability by increasing the AGP
voltage ... and the higher I set the AGP voltage, the more I could
overclock. The RAM voltage is at stock (and anything higher causes
memory errors on MemTest86 and MS WINDIAG); nothing spectacular about
the CPU voltage (which so far has had no effect on overclocking, since
I haven't pushed the CPU to its limit).

Granted, 962.2 FSB with 1:1 isn't bad, but I think it can do better
(or at least the CPU can). The memory should be able to reach a
minimum of 1000FSB ... at least that is the spec.

My surprise here is that *AGP* voltage has been the key to
overclocking. Anyone know why? I know that the AGP card is tied to
memory by virtue of AGP Aperture. I haven't played with any of the
overclock settings for the video card (via the nVidia drivers). My
next upgrade item is a video card (MSI FX 5900XT) ... don't know
whether that will affect my ability to overclock. Unfortunately, I
can't turn the AGP voltage up any higher (it is at the max ... +.3),
so unless I can solve the AGP issue, I'm at the end of the line.

Comments?

Thanks

I think you have more to gain with a more aggressive memory setting than
eeking out that last 100mhz of cpu speed. I'm at 240 also but my mem
settings are 2.5 3, 3, 6.

I don't know why the increase in voltage to the agp slot makes your system
stable. I'm at stock voltage except for cpu (same as yours)and I'm rock
solid as well. Maybe it's the GTS card somehow? I'm running a 9800pro.

Thanks for the report on the HSF, the stock cooler on my 2.8 had done a
great job, but it's time for an SP94 I see...my temps are MUCH higher than
yours:-)

Don

"Squeeky" wrote in message
...
I have recently upgraded my system. Pertinent components a

Don,

Thanks for your response.

Certainly, the conventional wisdom and practice was to spend a lot of
time tweaking memory timings. However, see the following article from
Tom's Hardware
(http://www.tomshardware.com/firstloo...105/index.html). It (and
other articles I have read) suggest greater improvement from
increasing the FSB than from tweaking the timings. To get 100MHz of
additional CPU speed (the number you mentioned), the FSB must go up by
25 ... this will do more for performance than any possible fine-tuning
of the timings. [Of course, if you can't raise the FSB any further,
THEN you can fine-tune the timings.]

Why did you stop at 240? What wall did you hit? Out of curiosity,
what RAM are you using?

As for the SP-94 ... I can't say enough. As I began writing this, I
was using a CPU intensive program (100% for 30 minutes); most of the
time the temp was 44C ... at one point it hit 45C. Am also using
Arctic Silver II (not the latest or greatest, but it is what I happen
to have in my toolbox). CPU heat is simply not a concern at the
moment. [The best pricing is at http://www.svc.com ; San Jose, CA]

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:41:49 -0400, "M-Tech"
wrote:

I think you have more to gain with a more aggressive memory setting than
eeking out that last 100mhz of cpu speed. I'm at 240 also but my mem
settings are 2.5 3, 3, 6.

I don't know why the increase in voltage to the agp slot makes your system
stable. I'm at stock voltage except for cpu (same as yours)and I'm rock
solid as well. Maybe it's the GTS card somehow? I'm running a 9800pro.

Thanks for the report on the HSF, the stock cooler on my 2.8 had done a
great job, but it's time for an SP94 I see...my temps are MUCH higher than
yours:-)

Don

I'd like to know a little more about the Thermalright SP-94 heatsink and
90mm Panaflo fan. If accurate, your temperature readings are very
impressive. My CPU temps typically run from 38-58 degrees C. Were you able
to install the heatsink without removing the DSP2 daughter board or the DSP2
fan? What about the northbridge fan? Any mounting problems there? Also, how
quiet is this setup? My stock Intel fan seems to make a lot of racket!

I've never been interested in over clocking and have stuck with most of the
default BIOS settings in order to maximize stability and reliability. Even
so, I've found this board to be a little flakey. When I first set it up I
experienced persistent cold boot problems. Sometimes it would start up and
run great. Then it would freeze up on start up and I'd have to re-boot once
or twice to get it going. Occasionally, when it did start up, it would act
very sluggish and task manager would show near maximum CPU usage with no
applications running! Installed a high performance power supply but saw no
improvement. I finally discovered that by turning off "Delayed Transaction"
in the BIOS, all these problems went away. "D.T. Enabled" is one of the
"Fail Safe Default" settings so I over looked this possibility for a long
time. Lately I've noticed a new intermittent problem. Sometimes when I boot
up or bring the machine out of hibernation, I hear a fast clicking noise
that sounds like an impending bearing failure in one of the case fans. The
noise, however, comes from one or the other of the Plextor DVD drives. When
this happens, the drive becomes unresponsive and the PC runs at a snails
pace. Re-booting does not solve the problem! I have to turn it off
completely and restart to get things up and running again. If anyone has any
thoughts on this problem I'd like to hear from you!
--
Giga-Byte GA-8KNXP v.2.0 Motherboard w/ Award BIOS v. FH
Pentium 4 2.8 w/800 MHz FSB Intel 875P Chipset
1GB Kingston HyperX PC3500 (@ 2.6v)
2 Western Digital 120 GB SATA Hard Drives
RAID 1 on Intel ICH5R (v3.5.0.2568)
MSI FX5600 - AGP 8X 128MB DDR Video Card (Nvidia v.52.16)
Leadtek WinFast 2000 TV/FM PCI Multi-Media card
U.S. Robotics 56K V90 PCI Modem
Plextor PX-708A 8X DVD-RW (IDE 2 Master)
Plextor PX-116A DVD-ROM (IDE 2 Slave)
Teac 1.44 3.5" Floppy Disk Drive
Creative Labs Audigy II Platinum Sound card
Enermatic "Noistaker" 470 watt ATX Power Supply
Win XP Pro SP-1 O.E.M.

"Squeeky" wrote in message
...
I have recently upgraded my system. Pertinent components a

Gigabyte GA-8KNXP ver. 2.0 w/FH BIOS
Intel P4 2.8C CPU w/Thermalright SP-94 heatsink and 90mm Panaflo fan
1GB (2x512) Super Talent PC4000 (DDR500) memory
nVidia GeForce2 GTS graphics card (obviously not upgraded yet)
Adaptec 29160 U160 SCSI adapter (for hard drives)

BIOS Settings:

CPU Host Frequency - 240.5MHz (962.2 FSB; 3.3677 GHz)
Memory Freq. Formula - 2.0 (which means the memory and the CPU are
synchronous ... 1:1)
RAM - SPD settings (3-4-4-8)
Delayed Transaction - Enabled
PSB Parking - Enabled
Command Per Clock - Auto [disabled]
Fast Chip Select - Enabled
Dynamic Paging Mode - Auto [disabled]
Top Performance - Not enabled
RAM Voltage Control - +0.1v [net 2.6v, the specified value for the RAM
modules]
AGP Voltage Control - +0.3v
CPU Voltage Control - 1.5875v

Power Supply:

+3.3 rail yields 3.44
+5.0 rail yields 4.96
+12.0 rail yields 12.22

According to MBM, the power values stay constant (there is some
variation, but not much).

The system is stable (actually rock stable). The SP-94 heatsink is
awesome (45C max with Prime 95 ... starting at a base temp of 32C);
the CPU has definitely not reached it's overclock limit yet.

The issue I have is with RAM. When I put the system together (I put
the new MB into an existing system ... of course changing the chipset
drivers, etc), it was unstable. Windows XP Pro would randomly crash
(spontaneous reboot, not BSOD). After *much* experimentation (and
sending one of the RAM modules back to the mfr. to be tested; it was
fine), I determined that I could get stability by increasing the AGP
voltage ... and the higher I set the AGP voltage, the more I could
overclock. The RAM voltage is at stock (and anything higher causes
memory errors on MemTest86 and MS WINDIAG); nothing spectacular about
the CPU voltage (which so far has had no effect on overclocking, since
I haven't pushed the CPU to its limit).

Granted, 962.2 FSB with 1:1 isn't bad, but I think it can do better
(or at least the CPU can). The memory should be able to reach a
minimum of 1000FSB ... at least that is the spec.

My surprise here is that *AGP* voltage has been the key to
overclocking. Anyone know why? I know that the AGP card is tied to
memory by virtue of AGP Aperture. I haven't played with any of the
overclock settings for the video card (via the nVidia drivers). My
next upgrade item is a video card (MSI FX 5900XT) ... don't know
whether that will affect my ability to overclock. Unfortunately, I
can't turn the AGP voltage up any higher (it is at the max ... +.3),
so unless I can solve the AGP issue, I'm at the end of the line.

Comments?

Thanks

So far as I know, the temps I reported are accurate. I use
Motherboard Monitor, and have the temps configured for the 8KNXP MB.

When I first put the system together, I used the stock Intel HSF.
Temps ranges from 32C to 57C ... more or less consistent with your
results. The SP-94 does not interfere with the DSP2 (or its fan),
though I have since removed that component as I couldn't establish any
benefit for it. The heatsink does not touch the NB (or its fan). The
SP-94 does not come with a fan ... you have to buy one separately. I
have the Panaflo high speed fan, and I believe it is quiet ... of
course, the medium speed would be quieter. You have to remove the MB
to install the SP-94 (because it requires a brace on the backside of
the MB). You can download installation instructions from the
Thermalright website (before you buy).

I was amazed by the performance of this heatsink!

Having said all of that, I don't believe that your reported problems
will be helped by the SP-94; they don't sound like HSF issues. And if
you are not overclocking, you don't need a new $55 toy. If I had to
guess, I would say the "Delayed Transaction" issue is a result of your
RAM ... faster RAM, and the issue may go away. But it sounds like you
are more interested in stability than speed, so the present solution
is fine.

FYI, I, too, have a Plextor 708A ... no noise.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 18:04:33 GMT, "Kilgore Trout Jr"
wrote:

I'd like to know a little more about the Thermalright SP-94 heatsink and
90mm Panaflo fan. If accurate, your temperature readings are very
impressive. My CPU temps typically run from 38-58 degrees C. Were you able
to install the heatsink without removing the DSP2 daughter board or the DSP2
fan? What about the northbridge fan? Any mounting problems there? Also, how
quiet is this setup? My stock Intel fan seems to make a lot of racket!

I've never been interested in over clocking and have stuck with most of the
default BIOS settings in order to maximize stability and reliability. Even
so, I've found this board to be a little flakey. When I first set it up I
experienced persistent cold boot problems. Sometimes it would start up and
run great. Then it would freeze up on start up and I'd have to re-boot once
or twice to get it going. Occasionally, when it did start up, it would act
very sluggish and task manager would show near maximum CPU usage with no
applications running! Installed a high performance power supply but saw no
improvement. I finally discovered that by turning off "Delayed Transaction"
in the BIOS, all these problems went away. "D.T. Enabled" is one of the
"Fail Safe Default" settings so I over looked this possibility for a long
time. Lately I've noticed a new intermittent problem. Sometimes when I boot
up or bring the machine out of hibernation, I hear a fast clicking noise
that sounds like an impending bearing failure in one of the case fans. The
noise, however, comes from one or the other of the Plextor DVD drives. When
this happens, the drive becomes unresponsive and the PC runs at a snails
pace. Re-booting does not solve the problem! I have to turn it off
completely and restart to get things up and running again. If anyone has any
thoughts on this problem I'd like to hear from you!

Don,

What do you think of the 9800 Pro (and its drivers)? I hadn't
considered it because I got jaded on ATI's then-poor drivers about 10
years ago. But I can actually buy a 9800 Pro (128MB 256-bit) for $176
(OEM) ... less than the nVidia 5900XT (and the 9800 Pro apparently has
materially better performance).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:41:49 -0400, "M-Tech"
wrote:

I think you have more to gain with a more aggressive memory setting than
eeking out that last 100mhz of cpu speed. I'm at 240 also but my mem
settings are 2.5 3, 3, 6.

I don't know why the increase in voltage to the agp slot makes your system
stable. I'm at stock voltage except for cpu (same as yours)and I'm rock
solid as well. Maybe it's the GTS card somehow? I'm running a 9800pro.

Thanks for the report on the HSF, the stock cooler on my 2.8 had done a
great job, but it's time for an SP94 I see...my temps are MUCH higher than
yours:-)

Don

"Squeeky" wrote in message
.. .
I have recently upgraded my system. Pertinent components a

Thanks Squeeky. Yah, I don't think my CPU temperatures are excessive or have
anything to do with the few problems I've had with this board. I am
interested in trying to make it a little more quiet and have been looking at
various heatsink/fan options. I hadn't heard of the SP-94 and appreciate
your comments. I think I will also follow your lead and try removing the
DSP2 unit. Nobody seems to be convinced that it serves any useful purpose
and it is one more source of heat, fan noise and potential problems.

Don't know what to think about the DT problem. Paid extra for a matched pair
of Kingston 500 MB PC3500 RAM to insure stable operation, then had to dumb
down the BIOS settings to get them to run reliably. Memtest86 runs for hours
with no errors and I don't have any real performance issues so I guess I
don't have too much to complain about. :^)


"Squeeky" wrote in message
...
So far as I know, the temps I reported are accurate. I use
Motherboard Monitor, and have the temps configured for the 8KNXP MB.

When I first put the system together, I used the stock Intel HSF.
Temps ranges from 32C to 57C ... more or less consistent with your
results. The SP-94 does not interfere with the DSP2 (or its fan),
though I have since removed that component as I couldn't establish any
benefit for it. The heatsink does not touch the NB (or its fan). The
SP-94 does not come with a fan ... you have to buy one separately. I
have the Panaflo high speed fan, and I believe it is quiet ... of
course, the medium speed would be quieter. You have to remove the MB
to install the SP-94 (because it requires a brace on the backside of
the MB). You can download installation instructions from the
Thermalright website (before you buy).

I was amazed by the performance of this heatsink!

Having said all of that, I don't believe that your reported problems
will be helped by the SP-94; they don't sound like HSF issues. And if
you are not overclocking, you don't need a new $55 toy. If I had to
guess, I would say the "Delayed Transaction" issue is a result of your
RAM ... faster RAM, and the issue may go away. But it sounds like you
are more interested in stability than speed, so the present solution
is fine.

FYI, I, too, have a Plextor 708A ... no noise.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 18:04:33 GMT, "Kilgore Trout Jr"
wrote:

I'd like to know a little more about the Thermalright SP-94 heatsink and
90mm Panaflo fan. If accurate, your temperature readings are very
impressive. My CPU temps typically run from 38-58 degrees C. Were you
able
to install the heatsink without removing the DSP2 daughter board or the
DSP2
fan? What about the northbridge fan? Any mounting problems there? Also,
how
quiet is this setup? My stock Intel fan seems to make a lot of racket!

I've never been interested in over clocking and have stuck with most of
the
default BIOS settings in order to maximize stability and reliability.
Even
so, I've found this board to be a little flakey. When I first set it up I
experienced persistent cold boot problems. Sometimes it would start up
and
run great. Then it would freeze up on start up and I'd have to re-boot
once
or twice to get it going. Occasionally, when it did start up, it would
act
very sluggish and task manager would show near maximum CPU usage with no
applications running! Installed a high performance power supply but saw
no
improvement. I finally discovered that by turning off "Delayed
Transaction"
in the BIOS, all these problems went away. "D.T. Enabled" is one of the
"Fail Safe Default" settings so I over looked this possibility for a long
time. Lately I've noticed a new intermittent problem. Sometimes when I
boot
up or bring the machine out of hibernation, I hear a fast clicking noise
that sounds like an impending bearing failure in one of the case fans.
The
noise, however, comes from one or the other of the Plextor DVD drives.
When
this happens, the drive becomes unresponsive and the PC runs at a snails
pace. Re-booting does not solve the problem! I have to turn it off
completely and restart to get things up and running again. If anyone has
any
thoughts on this problem I'd like to hear from you!

I have not had a single issue with the 9800pro or the drivers.

She's been rock solid:-)

Don

"Squeeky" wrote in message
...
Don,

What do you think of the 9800 Pro (and its drivers)? I hadn't
considered it because I got jaded on ATI's then-poor drivers about 10
years ago. But I can actually buy a 9800 Pro (128MB 256-bit) for $176
(OEM) ... less than the nVidia 5900XT (and the 9800 Pro apparently has
materially better performance).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:41:49 -0400, "M-Tech"
wrote:

I think you have more to gain with a more aggressive memory setting than
eeking out that last 100mhz of cpu speed. I'm at 240 also but my mem
settings are 2.5 3, 3, 6.

I don't know why the increase in voltage to the agp slot makes your
system
stable. I'm at stock voltage except for cpu (same as yours)and I'm rock
solid as well. Maybe it's the GTS card somehow? I'm running a 9800pro.

Thanks for the report on the HSF, the stock cooler on my 2.8 had done a
great job, but it's time for an SP94 I see...my temps are MUCH higher
than
yours:-)

Don

"Squeeky" wrote in message
.. .
I have recently upgraded my system. Pertinent components a

I have a AIW9800 Pro on a 8KNXP and have had no problems with the card or
the drivers. I also swapped the stock HSF for a SP-94 and cannot get my temp
above 49 Celsius when playing Unreal 2004.
"M-Tech" wrote in message
news
I have not had a single issue with the 9800pro or the drivers.

She's been rock solid:-)

Don

"Squeeky" wrote in message
...
Don,

What do you think of the 9800 Pro (and its drivers)? I hadn't
considered it because I got jaded on ATI's then-poor drivers about 10
years ago. But I can actually buy a 9800 Pro (128MB 256-bit) for $176
(OEM) ... less than the nVidia 5900XT (and the 9800 Pro apparently has
materially better performance).

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 07:41:49 -0400, "M-Tech"
wrote:

I think you have more to gain with a more aggressive memory setting
than
eeking out that last 100mhz of cpu speed. I'm at 240 also but my mem
settings are 2.5 3, 3, 6.

I don't know why the increase in voltage to the agp slot makes your
system
stable. I'm at stock voltage except for cpu (same as yours)and I'm
rock
solid as well. Maybe it's the GTS card somehow? I'm running a
9800pro.

Thanks for the report on the HSF, the stock cooler on my 2.8 had done a
great job, but it's time for an SP94 I see...my temps are MUCH higher
than
yours:-)

Don

"Squeeky" wrote in message
.. .
I have recently upgraded my system. Pertinent components a