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#31
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
Arlen Holder wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 14:59:21 +0100, Michael Logies wrote: if your printer is modern, it has a CUPS server included, the CUPS client ist on Android. Hi Michael Logies, Thank you for your purposefully helpful advice on the CUPS process o None of us are paid to help each other so I appreciate your help. You help out of your heart and that's what is great about Usenet! THANK YOU for being the first to explain how the CUPS process works! o Almost all debugging requires knowledge of how the system works. I had tried CUPS, and failed, but I didn't even know how it worked! o Thank you for explaining that process for us all. If the CUPS client is on Android, then I already have that installed. o https://i.postimg.cc/PxdDh7Sv/printing03.jpg In fact, a CUPS client was the second approach I had tried (after Mopria): o https://i.postimg.cc/xdvmwQ3S/printing02.jpg However, based on my search results, CUPS "seemed" to only reside on Linux which is fine except my dual-boot desktops are mostly on Windows, and, worse, I tried like hell to find a CUPS port to Windows. o I found something for Windows called CUPSS but it seemed a dead end. So I failed with CUPS; but if I had a step-by-step tutorial... o I might not have failed (likewise if the CUPS setup were more intuitive). The CUPS client always converts to PDF or forwards a PDF to the CUPS server which converts it for the printer (like a driver on Windows) for its printing. Thank you for explaining what the heck CUPS does as I read the Wikipedia & still didn't understand in the least how it applied to Android printing. Unfortunately, when I tried using CUPS, I could find no Android tutorial: o https://i.postimg.cc/6qRSK6WY/printing11.jpg So when it got to this stage, I had no server to give the setup form: o https://i.postimg.cc/9fMnMYX4/printing12.jpg It needs a serverort of the format: o http://server.tld:631/printers/Print... Certainly I "guessed" and gave it the printer's IP address: o http://192.168.0.20:631 But that failed. o And I gave up on CUPS as I didn't have any step-by-step tutorials. Nor did I even understand what I was doing. o Up until now, printing has "just worked"; and then you learn nothing. If the printer supports printing PDF natively, the CUPS server has not to convert. I took my wisdom from: https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/CUPS/ Funktionsweise von CUPS My printer is a typical Hewlett Packard LaserJet 2100tn built in 1999: o I really do not know what it supports, but I "think" it's only PCL-5. http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/bpl13210 o I don't see any mention of CUPS or PDF on its official web page: o https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/hp-laserjet-2100-printer-series/25469/model/14918 I'm very confused why Windows doesn't seem to need a "print server" o Yet, Android seems to need a "print server" The situation on Window is similiar, I think. You have a print job from a client, which has to be converted in a way, the printer understands. This is done by the printing driver for Windows. Thank you for explaining how the printing process works on Windows o As I never needed to understand it until now (since Windows "just works") Is this a correct data flow based on what you are trying to advise me? 1. The Windows application (eg MS Word) opens the file in a native format 2. Word "File Print" sends the native format file to the "printer driver" 3. The printer driver receives "native format" & outputs "printer format" (which, for my HP LaserJet 2100tn appears to be "PCL-5") 4. The printer driver sends that PCL-5 to the printer IP at 192.168.0.20 (I have no idea which port as a port scan shows only port 80 open.) 5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL-5 format Is that the correct data flow in a typical Windows printing situation? o If so, that printer driver is doing a lot of work as it needs to know a zillion native formats (e.g., MS Word, Irfanview image, VIM text, etc.) On CUPS it is more standardized. If a printer understands PDF, no conversion by a the CUPS server is needed. Half of my problem is I don't understand how printing is supposed to work o That can be overcome with a step-by-step tutorial - but there are none So it behooves me to understand what you're trying to impart to me!] Assuming that the printer can "understand" the PDF format... o Is this how an Android print to that printer is "supposed" to work? 1. The Android editing app reads the file in a native format (e.g., JPEG) 2. The app's "File Print" sends native format to its "CUPS client" 3. The Android CUPS client converts that native (eg JPEG) format to PDF 4. That CUPS client forwards that PDF to the printer at 192.168.1.20:???? 5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PDF format I do not profess nor pretend to know how it works; but it works. PCL-5 is another standard (from HP), like PDF. If Android generates a PCL output, your printer accepts it as a PCL input. Given I haven't seen any evidence my HP LJ2100tn supports PDF, I think I _must_ get Android to output PCL, which, so far, I have been able to attain only with the combination of two companion programs, where I still need to _understand_ the data flow as it's not yet working perfectly: I "think" this is the data flow, but I'm not at all sure that it is: 1. The LetsPrintDroid "print server" reads native format (e.g., PNG) 2. That print server converts that native format (eg PNG) to PCL-5 format 3. It then sends the resulting PCL-5 to the printer 192.168.0.20:? 4. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL format For PDF files, for whatever reason, we need to add an Android intermediary: 1. The LetsPrintDroid "print server" reads native format (e.g., PDF) 2. That print server can't convert that native format (eg PDF) to PCL-5 3. So it sends the PDF to "LetsPrintPDF" which sends back a "bitmap" 4. The LetsPrintDroid print server" converts that bitmap to PCL-5 format 5. LetsPrintDroid then sends the PCL-5 to the printer at 192.168.0.20:? 6. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PCL format Note: Any of that can be wrong; it's what I "think" the data flow is. Note: LetsPrintPDF is a PDF viewer (also image viewer) on its own. What I need help with is understanding why printing from Windows is easy o And yet, printing from Android to the same printer is not If your old windows printer does not support PDF or CUPS, it does not work with Linux/Android out of the box. It`s simple. As far as I can tell, the HP LJ 2100tn, built in 1999, doesn't support either CUPS or PDF; but it does have something called "Jet Direct", which seems to accept something called "RAW" but I can't figure out what that is. o What is JetDirect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetDirect All I can figure out about "JetDirect" is that it's an Ethernet "NIC". o It's what allows me to connect the printer to the SOHO router by CAT5. On terminology, I see JetDirect somehow related to "print server" based on: o HP LaserJet - Printers that can use HP Jetdirect print servers https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04763513 But I'm not at all sure what a "print server" even is. o Nor if my printer having a JetDirect card makes it a "print server". What is a print server anyway? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Print_server o I looked it up and it seems to be unnecessary for a single printer. https://rjyoung.com/blog/managed-it-services/what-you-need-to-know-about-a-print-server-setup/ Years ago hardware for Postscript/PDF-rendering was too expensive to integrate in every printer. So it was done in software on the Windows machine, which converts e. g. PDFs to GDI for the GDI driver of the printer. Such printers are called "GDI printers": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphi...e#GDI_printers The better ones supported at least PCL, too. But today every new printer should support CUPS/PDF. What I desire is to know the normal data flow for an Ethernet'd printer. o From Windows (since it just works), and, o From Android (since it needs to be debugged). HP printers use TCP port 9100 by default JT -- |
#32
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 03:14:09 +0000 (UTC), JT wrote:
HP printers use TCP port 9100 by default Hi JT, Thank you for your purposefully helpful information about the port that the HP printers use by default being port 9100. Much appreciated. I instantly ran this quick test the moment I saw your post: o telnet 192.168.0.20 9100 (connects, but I can't talk printer protocol) o telnet 192.168.0.20 9200 (fails, I chose that port arbitrarily to test) Indeed, you are correct that the HP LJ 2100tn is listening on port 9100. o Thank you for being a good netizen by helping others out. I wonder why port 9100 didn't show up in the ipscan for that printer? o Printer's IP address, by Alex Trishan https://groups.google.com/g/comp.perips.printers/c/Y-b186tFKTs o IP = 192.168.0.20 o Ping = 2ms o Hostname = [n/a] o Ports[3+] = 80 I checked the automatically set settings in Android LetsPrintDroid: o https://i.postimg.cc/L5Pfd7xc/printing14.jpg Notice they _also_ confirm they automatically chose port 9100. o https://i.postimg.cc/bYS12Dqm/printing15.jpg Do you perchance know what the "RAW" means in the "RAW - Jet Direct" o Is that "RAW" format the same thing as "PCL-5" format? -- Usenet pools our collective experience with people around the world. |
#33
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
Arlen Holder wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 03:14:09 +0000 (UTC), JT wrote: HP printers use TCP port 9100 by default Hi JT, Thank you for your purposefully helpful information about the port that the HP printers use by default being port 9100. Much appreciated. I instantly ran this quick test the moment I saw your post: o telnet 192.168.0.20 9100 (connects, but I can't talk printer protocol) o telnet 192.168.0.20 9200 (fails, I chose that port arbitrarily to test) Indeed, you are correct that the HP LJ 2100tn is listening on port 9100. o Thank you for being a good netizen by helping others out. I wonder why port 9100 didn't show up in the ipscan for that printer? o Printer's IP address, by Alex Trishan https://groups.google.com/g/comp.perips.printers/c/Y-b186tFKTs o IP = 192.168.0.20 o Ping = 2ms o Hostname = [n/a] o Ports[3+] = 80 I checked the automatically set settings in Android LetsPrintDroid: o https://i.postimg.cc/L5Pfd7xc/printing14.jpg Notice they also confirm they automatically chose port 9100. o https://i.postimg.cc/bYS12Dqm/printing15.jpg Do you perchance know what the "RAW" means in the "RAW - Jet Direct" o Is that "RAW" format the same thing as "PCL-5" format? Arlen, RAW is the default protocol on HP printers. The other option is LPR/LPD. I would highly recommend using RAW. LPR/LPD gives you options for creating a print queue and send info about the job. Not really needed in a home environment. More info about LPR/LPD: https://www.brooksnet.com/content/faq-what-is-lpr-lpd This entirely different from printer language. Most HP printers support PCL5, PCL6 and Postscript printer languages. PCL6 would be my choice if you don't need Postscript or your printer doesn't support it. In addition, some HP printers do NOT allow Telnet access. JT -- |
#34
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 02:51:16 +0000 (UTC), JT wrote:
RAW is the default protocol on HP printers. The other option is LPR/LPD. I would highly recommend using RAW. Hi JT, Thanks for that recommendation as I'm at the point where I'm over my head in protocols, RAW/JetDirect, IPP, IPP14, LPD, none of which have I even thought about in all my decades of printing from Windows & Linux. When everybody knows how to do it, I just google and find the steps o It's only on Android printing that the steps simply don't exist (AFAICT). Nowhere on the net have I found a step-by-step tutorial to do something this simple, which is print directly to your own Ethernet'd printer which isn't Mopria or Wi-Fi, and where you don't have a Linux CUPS server setup. Even Android 10 help completely ignores printing to an Ethernet'd printer: o https://i.postimg.cc/pTkFdBSG/printing04.jpg Even the HP app failed (it expects a "Wi-Fi printer"), where, until I found the combination of LetsPrintDroid/LetsPrintPDF, the only solutions that worked were the highly marketed cloud solutions. While big marketing orgs love to have your data, the last thing I would use is the cloud just to get data from one device on my LAN to another... o Only a fool would need to use the cloud to transfer files to/from his own devices. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/sgSv_BRzO0A I admit though that, when I looked for solutions, the big MARKETING orgs sure did make it easy for people to print to their printers via the cloud. LPR/LPD gives you options for creating a print queue and send info about the job. Not really needed in a home environment. More info about LPR/LPD: https://www.brooksnet.com/content/faq-what-is-lpr-lpd This entirely different from printer language. Most HP printers support PCL5, PCL6 and Postscript printer languages. PCL6 would be my choice if you don't need Postscript or your printer doesn't support it. Since this is a "legacy printer", HP no longer supplies the Windows 10 drivers, and neither does Windows 10, by default, even when you click the "Update Driver" buttons where it tries (forever, and fails) to get them. I wrote up this tutorial long ago for the _only_ way to get Windows drivers, where, at that time, as I recall, I _tried_ PCL-6, but failed. o Tutorial for the EASIEST (maybe only?) way to install a problematic legacy printer such as the HP LaserJet 2100 on Windows 10 current versions https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/Qb-fXNOH_8g I tentatively (but not conclusively) conclude it doesn't support PCL-6. In addition, some HP printers do NOT allow Telnet access. A port scanner says HP LaserJet 2100tn apparently supports telnet o Although I would only use it for debugging purposes (AFAIK). I wish I had on Windows a port scanner that could tell me this information o Port Authority, Port scanner https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aaronjwood.portauthority/ Which reported the printer had the following "Open Ports" 23 - Telnet 80 - World Wide Web HTTP 280 - http-mgmt 515 - spooler 631 - IPP (Internal Printing Protocol) 9100 - PDL Data Streaming Port As shown in this screenshot: o https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg While I'm not sure what the "spooler" port does, it seems I had two options all along that I didn't know I had, which are to use "IPP" (I don't really know what that is yet though) or RAW (port 9100). The good news is, I think, the fact IPP (whatever that is) might work in addition to JetDirect/RAW, literally doubles my options, from 1 to 2! -- Knowledge is not the same as experience when it comes to making choices. |
#35
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 13:39:01 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:
Assuming that the printer can "understand" the PDF format... o Is this how an Android print to that printer is "supposed" to work? 1. The Android editing app reads the file in a native format (e.g., JPEG) 2. The app's "File Print" sends native format to its "CUPS client" 3. The Android CUPS client converts that native (eg JPEG) format to PDF 4. That CUPS client forwards that PDF to the printer at 192.168.1.20:???? 5. The printer prints it because the printer accepts PDF format Yes. Hi Michael Logies, Thanks for sticking with me as I generally don't give up easily, and even when I find a solution (as I have, using Let's Print Droid), it's still good for me to explore the CUPS solution, and then to write a tutorial for others to do in minutes what has taken me (elapsed time) days to solve. Thanks for confirming that the CUPS server is what converts the native format to the printer format (which, in my HP LJ 2100tn, is PCL-5) via the CUPS port (i.e., port 631, which I confirmed is open on the HP printer): o https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg I installed _every_ free app on both F-Droid & Google Play that had "CUPS" in the name, and tested every single one; but all failed in my tests: o https://play.google.com/store/search?q=cups%20printing&c=apps Only belatedly did I realize there's just no way CUPS is going to work unless I have a _separate_ dedicated Linux CUPS server running; although there are heroic ways, if rooted, to run a Debian CUPS server on Android: o How to print to CUPS (running on another computer in the LAN)? https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/43774/how-to-print-to-cups-running-on-another-computer-in-the-lan The chance of finding a robust CUPS server compiled for Windows is slim o CUPS Server compiled for Windows? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2844819/cups-server-compiled-for-windows "Making the complete CUPS server+filtering code work on Windows would be a daunting task, since Windows spooling and printing is so much different from the Unix world." -- Solving problems nobody else has ever solved sometimes requires teamwork. |
#36
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 22:46:28 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:
But there seem to be different flavors of IPP, "IPP Everywhere" being the newest one. Have you tested this one? https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...&hl=de& gl=US CUPS Printing Hi Michael Logies, Thanks for that warning that CUPS' IPP may have different flavors, where, I claim I've tried _ever_ free CUPS "print service" on both F-Droid & Google Play. Only belatedly have I realized they will _never_ work simply because all require a "CUPS Server" (not to be confused with Android "Print Services". Other ways: https://www.xda-developers.com/andro...t-service-ipp/ Android Oreo Introduces Built-in Print Service for Printers that Support the IPP As far as I can tell, IPP won't work without a "print server" (not to be confused with an Android "print service"), such as a CUPS print server. I'm only slowly realizing the "Print Service" simply means that apps can use the Android API to talk to that Print Service via the "File Print" of that Android app. The Android "Print Service" doesn't seem to do much else. I had read that very same article a while ago, where it's one reason I said all the Mopria apps were, essentially, scams, as the default Android "Print Service" is Mopria certified. Given my HP LaserJet 2100tn Ethernet'd printer is _not_ Mopria certified o Mopria-certified HP Printers https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04459315 "In Windows 10, printing is automatically enabled when the Windows 10 update has been applied (effective October 2018). In Android, you can print to Mopria-certified printers using the Default Print Service app built in to Android 8.0 and newer devices." There's no way the default Android "print service" is gonna work for me: https://mopria.org/certified-products The only way (AFAICT) the defulat "print service" can work is via IPP, which, again, I think requires a _separate_ CUPS (or other) Linux-based "print server" (not to be confused with Android "print services"). The Android "print service" merely energizes the "File Print" menu in Android apps (AFAICT), & doesn't actually add much more value than that. (...) If you have an older printer that does not support the IPP, though, then you will still need to install the app recommended by the PrintRecommendationService, https://android.googlesource.com/pla...dationService/. You can learn more about this from a Google I/O 2016 presentation here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_JG...tu.be&t=16m20s (...) My HP LaserJet 2100tn Ethernet'd printer appears to support IPP based on a network scan I ran from Android this morning showing 631 as an open port: o https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg However, I'm slowly coming to the realization that nothing will work using port 631 (CUPS defaults to IPP) until/unless I add a CUPS print server. It's trivial to find a step-by-step tutorial to set up a Linux CUPS server: o Set Up CUPS Print Server on Ubuntu (Bonjour, IPP, Samba, AirPrint) https://www.linuxbabe.com/ubuntu/set-up-cups-print-server-ubuntu-bonjour-ipp-samba-airprint But there are no tutorials (AFAICT) for setting up a Windows CUPS server. o If they exist, & I just haven't found them, I'd love a pointer to one! In summary, as far as I can tell (and I may very well be wrong), there is no chance for the Mopria/CUPS/IPP default Print Service to work on Android with my Ethernet's printer without a Linux CUPS server on my network. Given there's almost zero change of setting up a Windows CUPS server, the only way Windows 10 can help, I think, is via some kind of "shared" setup. Otherwise, the only solution on the planet, known to me anyway, is the one I came up with by help from people like you, and determined trial & error. -- Some problems are harder to resolve because the industry went to the cloud. |
#37
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 22:38:57 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
My HP LaserJet 2100tn Ethernet'd printer appears to support IPP based on a network scan I ran from Android this morning showing 631 as an open port: o https://i.postimg.cc/L4YqhR1P/printing16.jpg UPDATE: BTW, it's not as easy to find something as simple as this, on Windows: o https://i.postimg.cc/qq3fY3qT/printing17.jpg Scan printer open ports Android output that key printer data in a minute or two elapsed time. o Windows, after hours, _still_ hasn't done a single decent port scan! Here's the thread on the task of replicating that simple task on Windows: o What Windows port scanning freeware do you recommend for general use? https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/dqhQMscR3mA -- Adults with purposefully helpful intent help others because they care. |
#38
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 17:03:16 +0100, Michael Logies wrote:
yesterday I tried to print with my Android 10 (Xiaomi Mi 8) to a Epson WF-4630 (ca. 2014) in my office. It did not work with the system print service. I had to install "Epson Print Enabler", now it works. I do not know, whether the cloud is used or not. At home the Epson WF-4720 is recognized easily on the network by the system print service. I print too seldom from Android for being too much intererested in printing problems. Hi Michael Logies, Thank you for your update, where I appreciate that you let us know the Epson app worked for you, even as the HP app failed for me (for reasons already covered in gory detail in this thread). I think it's the _wrong_ approach for everyone to have to install a printer-specific app from the manufacturer; but if it works, that's OK. What I always strive to do is spend the time to write the tutorial so that the amount of effort it took us to get it working disappears for others. All they have to do is follow the tutorial, where, I claim, based on what I've learned, _anyone_ "should" be able to print to their networked printer, no matter _what_ printer they have on the network, and no matter how it's networked, as long as it has an IP address and open ports. I'm writing up and testing the BSOD tutorial as we speak, and I already wrote a few tutorials this week on the other newsgroups, so I'm a bit late on this printing tutorial, but in its simplest form, this is the procedu 1. Run a scan to identify the printer IP address & supported protocols. 2. Install "Let's Print Droid" & set it up as the _only_ "print service". 3. If the printer doesn't support PDF, also install "Let's Print PDF". For sure, that does _not_ use the Internet in any way when printing. o It's free, ad free, & most importantly, compatible with old printers! I posit there's a good chance that procedure "should" (could? would?) work on almost any printer on the network no matter how old it is, as long as it has an IP address (e.g., I don't know about USB or serial port printers). There are other options, of course, where I've already listed about 8 different ways to print from Android to the printer so I won't repeat them. Thanks again for being a good hearted person who helps others on Usenet out of the goodness of your soul, where it's nice to solve problems together. |
#39
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 08:47:55 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
SOLVED. As usual, we almost never, if ever, fail to do what we need to do. o For free, with unlimited printing, on our own LAN, sans the cloud! The full solution is in the referenced thread: o How do you print from Android to your home networked printer on your LAN? https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4 UPDATE: Woo hoo! o Together, as a team, we (almost) never fail to solve all technical issues! In addition to solving the huge problem of printing from any Android device to any printer on your LAN (which is a pretty big deal if you ask me)... We also solved the problem of running Windows-based scans of printer ports o Which, admittedly, is not a big deal at all (but useful nonetheless) Rather than repeating the details, please refer to this updated thread: o What Windows port scanning freeware do you recommend for general use? https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/c/dqhQMscR3mA -- People post tutorials and solutions out of the goodness of their hearts. |
#40
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If you print from Windows 10 to your LAN networked printer - have you also printed from Android? How?
Update:
This thread shows how to print to _any_ printer that is on your LAN, (as long as it has an IP address) where I've been printing away. However, today I noticed a "gotcha", which is "landscaped" printing. o I was printing a 2021 customized paper calendar (with birthdays) based on this tutorial where I converted the calendar PDF to PPT. o Windows Tutorial to annotate & print family calendar at home on 8.5x11 paper (please improve for all to benefit) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/RA3bLfsgtFg When I converted the custom Powerpoint back to PDF, it unexpectedly printed from my Android phone _only_ in "portrait" orientation. Not "landscape". I solved it easily by rotating the PDF in Adobe Acrobat on Windows, but this problem of "portrait-only" orientation doesn't happen when I print the same file on Windows. The "portrait-only" orientation only happens when I print from Android. In summary, it's just a heads-up to test both orientations if you use this tutorial to print from Android using LetsPrintDroid & LetsPrintPDF. -- Google proved, yet again, core iOS code has never been tested since 1985. https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/7Mc1sX9XISA With an obvious length check bug, the entire iOS house of cards fell down. Google asked "Is it really that easy?", where the answer was "Yes". |
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