Memory dilemma

I just put a new system together consisting of an Abit AI7, P4 2.6C CPU, and
1GB PC3700 RAM (two 512MB DIMMS). I bought everything from Newegg. I intend
to OC (as I have in the past with many other systems). My dilemma is that
Newegg sent me two Buffalo Tech PC3700 DIMMS, but one has Micron chips and
the other Winbond BH5 chips. The thing is, Newegg doesn't even (technically)
offer the Winbond version of this 512MB BT DIMM.

I put each one (separately) into the MB. Observing the SPD values, the
Micron DIMM shows 3-8-3-3 and 1:1 on the AI7 BIOS screens, while the Winbond
DIMM shows 2.5-7-3-3 and 5:4! I manually set the divider to 1:1 while using
the Winbond DIMM, and in testing both with Sandra they are pretty much
identical (the Winbond is less than 5 points SLOWER than the Micron, but I
don't consider that a notable difference).

So, here are my questions:

Does it matter that the SPD of the Winbond default sets the divider to 5:4?
Does this mean that this DIMM was rated not able to operate (ideally) at
1:1?

It's been my impression that the values of a DIMM (x-x-x-x) contribute much
less to the ultimate speed of a system than the FSB and divider. Am I
correct in this observation?

Will it hurt if I keep both of these DIMMS in the system together, or should
I send one back and get another to match? If the latter, which one do I
keep?

Tony. I answered this question in another group, but apparently you missed
it. Here's a copy of my reply, and I strongly advise you follow this advice.

NewEgg has separate listings for those two sticks, with different part
numbers, prices and specs. Do NOT settle for a mixed pair. DO send back the
Micron and keep the Winbond. Here's how to prove your case to NewEgg:

Use the "shop by brand" link at the top of the page and go to Buffalo Tech,
system memory. There are two pages of listings.

On page one you'll find:

BT PC3700 with Micron modules:
Model# DD466-S256MC
Item# N82E16820150603

$44

On page two you'll find:

BT PC3700 with Winbond modules:
Model# DD466-S256
Item# N82E16820150565

$50

The Winbond is listed as currently not in stock. But you have an absolute
right to insist that they give you what you ordered and paid for. Check the
numbers on your invoice. You can also double-check the product numbers at
the manufacturer's website:
http://www.buffalotech.com/memory/prod-ddrdimm.html

NewEgg filled one order with two different parts. Unless you used two
different product links to place your order, they screwed up. And even if
you pushed the Micron button by mistake, you now have a mismatched set of
DIMMs that could cause stability problems. At this point it should be just
as simple to replace the Micron chip as the Winbond, though the latter would
take longer because it's out of stock.

I'm sure if you explain it to them, they'll fix their mistake.

I wouldn't let them off the hook until they do.

The Winbond performs better because it uses tighter timings, as you've
already discovered. Mine runs at 2,3,2,6 at 220 mhz. At 5:4, that's a 275
fsb. That's why it sells out as fast as NewEgg can get it. Those are the
same Winbond BH-5 chips used in the hyper-expensive Mushkin PC3500 Level II
Black, one of the best sticks available for an Intel Canterwood or
Springdale system.

The Micron is basically the same as Crucial PC3200. It is reliable and
clocks fairly high, but it won't set any speed records. That's why it's
cheaper.


"Tony" wrote in message
...
I just put a new system together consisting of an Abit AI7, P4 2.6C CPU,
and
1GB PC3700 RAM (two 512MB DIMMS). I bought everything from Newegg. I
intend
to OC (as I have in the past with many other systems). My dilemma is that
Newegg sent me two Buffalo Tech PC3700 DIMMS, but one has Micron chips and
the other Winbond BH5 chips. The thing is, Newegg doesn't even
(technically)
offer the Winbond version of this 512MB BT DIMM.

I put each one (separately) into the MB. Observing the SPD values, the
Micron DIMM shows 3-8-3-3 and 1:1 on the AI7 BIOS screens, while the
Winbond
DIMM shows 2.5-7-3-3 and 5:4! I manually set the divider to 1:1 while
using
the Winbond DIMM, and in testing both with Sandra they are pretty much
identical (the Winbond is less than 5 points SLOWER than the Micron, but I
don't consider that a notable difference).

So, here are my questions:

Does it matter that the SPD of the Winbond default sets the divider to
5:4?
Does this mean that this DIMM was rated not able to operate (ideally) at
1:1?

It's been my impression that the values of a DIMM (x-x-x-x) contribute
much
less to the ultimate speed of a system than the FSB and divider. Am I
correct in this observation?

Will it hurt if I keep both of these DIMMS in the system together, or
should
I send one back and get another to match? If the latter, which one do I
keep?

this is the second time that it has been posted in the group that NewEgg has
done this very thing with ram. I have had good results with NewEgg in the
past but if they start making a habit of screwing around with orders like
this, making obvious undesirable choices in terms of product combinations,
then they will quickly loose favor with me. I would also figure that NewEgg
would not want folks posting negatively about their experiences with regards
to purchasing from them...

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Jean Fouinon" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:27:42 -0500, "Tony"
wrote:


Will it hurt if I keep both of these DIMMS in the system together, or
should
I send one back and get another to match? If the latter, which one do I
keep?


I would send one back and have it matched with the Micron. I would
also chew out the seller for selling you a product you never
requested. Um, someone buys two sticks of ram it is just a given that
people want two indetical sticks and not mismatched pairs. It's like
soneone selling you a pair of tires and they are of two different
brands and quality.

Skid, I did see your previous response, but you may not have seen mine g.
I did not order the 256MB DIMMS; I ordered two 512MB DIMMS. Newegg does NOT
list a part number for 512MB Winbond part, but I got one anyway. This kind
of makes it hard for me to ask for another one.

Skid wrote in message
news:JZ%Cb.548637$Fm2.517795@attbi_s04...
Tony. I answered this question in another group, but apparently you missed
it. Here's a copy of my reply, and I strongly advise you follow this
advice.

NewEgg has separate listings for those two sticks, with different part
numbers, prices and specs. Do NOT settle for a mixed pair. DO send back
the
Micron and keep the Winbond. Here's how to prove your case to NewEgg:

Use the "shop by brand" link at the top of the page and go to Buffalo
Tech,
system memory. There are two pages of listings.

On page one you'll find:

BT PC3700 with Micron modules:
Model# DD466-S256MC
Item# N82E16820150603

$44

On page two you'll find:

BT PC3700 with Winbond modules:
Model# DD466-S256
Item# N82E16820150565

$50

The Winbond is listed as currently not in stock. But you have an absolute
right to insist that they give you what you ordered and paid for. Check
the
numbers on your invoice. You can also double-check the product numbers at
the manufacturer's website:
http://www.buffalotech.com/memory/prod-ddrdimm.html

NewEgg filled one order with two different parts. Unless you used two
different product links to place your order, they screwed up. And even if
you pushed the Micron button by mistake, you now have a mismatched set of
DIMMs that could cause stability problems. At this point it should be just
as simple to replace the Micron chip as the Winbond, though the latter
would
take longer because it's out of stock.

I'm sure if you explain it to them, they'll fix their mistake.

I wouldn't let them off the hook until they do.

The Winbond performs better because it uses tighter timings, as you've
already discovered. Mine runs at 2,3,2,6 at 220 mhz. At 5:4, that's a 275
fsb. That's why it sells out as fast as NewEgg can get it. Those are the
same Winbond BH-5 chips used in the hyper-expensive Mushkin PC3500 Level
II
Black, one of the best sticks available for an Intel Canterwood or
Springdale system.

The Micron is basically the same as Crucial PC3200. It is reliable and
clocks fairly high, but it won't set any speed records. That's why it's
cheaper.


"Tony" wrote in message
...
I just put a new system together consisting of an Abit AI7, P4 2.6C CPU,
and
1GB PC3700 RAM (two 512MB DIMMS). I bought everything from Newegg. I
intend
to OC (as I have in the past with many other systems). My dilemma is
that
Newegg sent me two Buffalo Tech PC3700 DIMMS, but one has Micron chips
and
the other Winbond BH5 chips. The thing is, Newegg doesn't even
(technically)
offer the Winbond version of this 512MB BT DIMM.

I put each one (separately) into the MB. Observing the SPD values, the
Micron DIMM shows 3-8-3-3 and 1:1 on the AI7 BIOS screens, while the
Winbond
DIMM shows 2.5-7-3-3 and 5:4! I manually set the divider to 1:1 while
using
the Winbond DIMM, and in testing both with Sandra they are pretty much
identical (the Winbond is less than 5 points SLOWER than the Micron, but
I
don't consider that a notable difference).

So, here are my questions:

Does it matter that the SPD of the Winbond default sets the divider to
5:4?
Does this mean that this DIMM was rated not able to operate (ideally) at
1:1?

It's been my impression that the values of a DIMM (x-x-x-x) contribute
much
less to the ultimate speed of a system than the FSB and divider. Am I
correct in this observation?

Will it hurt if I keep both of these DIMMS in the system together, or
should
I send one back and get another to match? If the latter, which one do I
keep?

Thanks Tom. The problem I have is that Newegg doesn't even list that they
OFFER the 512MB Buffalo Tech PC3700 Winbond part, but I still got one. I'm
not complaining about that, but it makes it very difficult for me to get
another if I return my Micron-chipped DIMM. I already called them, and the
support person (who I don't really blame) can only tell me that there is one
part number for a BT PC3700 512MB DIMM.

But with all that, is the evidence so conclusive that mixing is a bad idea,
that I would just be better off returning the Winbond version and getting a
second Micron? (which would match their listed part number)

TomG wrote in message
news:O40Db.7872$F22.2759@lakeread02...
this is the second time that it has been posted in the group that NewEgg
has
done this very thing with ram. I have had good results with NewEgg in the
past but if they start making a habit of screwing around with orders like
this, making obvious undesirable choices in terms of product combinations,
then they will quickly loose favor with me. I would also figure that
NewEgg
would not want folks posting negatively about their experiences with
regards
to purchasing from them...

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Jean Fouinon" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:27:42 -0500, "Tony"
wrote:


Will it hurt if I keep both of these DIMMS in the system together, or
should
I send one back and get another to match? If the latter, which one do I
keep?


I would send one back and have it matched with the Micron. I would
also chew out the seller for selling you a product you never
requested. Um, someone buys two sticks of ram it is just a given that
people want two indetical sticks and not mismatched pairs. It's like
soneone selling you a pair of tires and they are of two different
brands and quality.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Skid, I did see your previous response, but you may not have seen mine
g.
I did not order the 256MB DIMMS; I ordered two 512MB DIMMS. Newegg does
NOT
list a part number for 512MB Winbond part, but I got one anyway. This kind
of makes it hard for me to ask for another one.

Buffalo Tech still lists the Winbond PC3700 on their site, which I linked in
the earlier post. If NewEgg can't get it for you, maybe B.T. could arrange a
swap.

There's nothing wrong with the Micron, it just doesn't offer quite the
performance because the timings aren't as tight.

No matter what you do, make sure you get a matched set. Otherwise you're
asking for trouble.

Skid wrote in message
news:Pz0Db.548838$Fm2.518128@attbi_s04...

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Skid, I did see your previous response, but you may not have seen mine
g.
I did not order the 256MB DIMMS; I ordered two 512MB DIMMS. Newegg does
NOT
list a part number for 512MB Winbond part, but I got one anyway. This
kind
of makes it hard for me to ask for another one.

Buffalo Tech still lists the Winbond PC3700 on their site, which I linked
in
the earlier post. If NewEgg can't get it for you, maybe B.T. could arrange
a
swap.

There's nothing wrong with the Micron, it just doesn't offer quite the
performance because the timings aren't as tight.

No matter what you do, make sure you get a matched set. Otherwise you're
asking for trouble.



Yes, I was thinking of going straight to BT, since Newegg doesn't offer the
WB part directly. I'll give them a call on Monday.

there are other posts in the group where a link was posted to NewEgg's
listing for that ram.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Tony" wrote in message
...
Thanks Tom. The problem I have is that Newegg doesn't even list that they
OFFER the 512MB Buffalo Tech PC3700 Winbond part, but I still got one. I'm
not complaining about that, but it makes it very difficult for me to get
another if I return my Micron-chipped DIMM. I already called them, and the
support person (who I don't really blame) can only tell me that there is
one
part number for a BT PC3700 512MB DIMM.

But with all that, is the evidence so conclusive that mixing is a bad
idea,
that I would just be better off returning the Winbond version and getting
a
second Micron? (which would match their listed part number)

TomG wrote in message
news:O40Db.7872$F22.2759@lakeread02...
this is the second time that it has been posted in the group that NewEgg
has
done this very thing with ram. I have had good results with NewEgg in
the
past but if they start making a habit of screwing around with orders
like
this, making obvious undesirable choices in terms of product
combinations,
then they will quickly loose favor with me. I would also figure that
NewEgg
would not want folks posting negatively about their experiences with
regards
to purchasing from them...

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror ----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 120,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"Jean Fouinon" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 10:27:42 -0500, "Tony"
wrote:


Will it hurt if I keep both of these DIMMS in the system together, or
should
I send one back and get another to match? If the latter, which one do
I
keep?


I would send one back and have it matched with the Micron. I would
also chew out the seller for selling you a product you never
requested. Um, someone buys two sticks of ram it is just a given that
people want two indetical sticks and not mismatched pairs. It's like
soneone selling you a pair of tires and they are of two different
brands and quality.

"TomG" wrote in message
news:O40Db.7872$F22.2759@lakeread02...
this is the second time that it has been posted in the group that NewEgg
has
done this very thing with ram. I have had good results with NewEgg in the
past but if they start making a habit of screwing around with orders like
this, making obvious undesirable choices in terms of product combinations,
then they will quickly loose favor with me. I would also figure that
NewEgg
would not want folks posting negatively about their experiences with
regards
to purchasing from them...

I just purchased a few items from them. I noticed the HDD I got (a WD800JB)
was a used one. I could tell because one of the mounting holes was stripped
and there were scratches around some of the other holes. I don't know if
Newegg knew about this, or if WD just repackaged it. However, I ran some
tests on it, and it works just fine, so I went ahead and used it rather than
going through the headaches or RMA'ing it.

Another thing that ****ed me off was that I placed the order at 6:30 last
Monday morning CST. A half hour later they updated their website with sale
prices on THREE of the items I purchased, but I didn't get the sales price.
Would've saved me at least $15.

"Skid" wrote in message
news:Pz0Db.548838$Fm2.518128@attbi_s04...

"Tony" wrote in message
...
Skid, I did see your previous response, but you may not have seen mine
g.
I did not order the 256MB DIMMS; I ordered two 512MB DIMMS. Newegg does
NOT
list a part number for 512MB Winbond part, but I got one anyway. This
kind
of makes it hard for me to ask for another one.

Buffalo Tech still lists the Winbond PC3700 on their site, which I linked
in
the earlier post. If NewEgg can't get it for you, maybe B.T. could arrange
a
swap.

There's nothing wrong with the Micron, it just doesn't offer quite the
performance because the timings aren't as tight.

No matter what you do, make sure you get a matched set. Otherwise you're
asking for trouble.


I do agree that Newegg shouldn't have sent 2 mismatched components out.

However, this "matched pairs" baloney is really complete nonesense conjured
up by the ram suppliers to generate a couple of extra bucks. It really
doesn't matter 2 hoots what brand of memory you have for each of the 2
sticks. Whilst on the subject, it also doesn't matter a sausage how the SPD
is programmed either.

All that matters is how fast each stick will go, and at what timings. If
each stick will do (say) 225MHz at (say) 7-3-3-2, then it really matters not
who made them, nor what the SPD programming is. Whack them both in together
and 99% (maybe 100%) of the time they will work fine.

Chip.