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#1
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Detonator Image Quality Test: Part II
OK, responding to criticisms of my previous test, I decided to do a more
thorough test using only the GeForce 5900 on one machine. First, the system setup: EVGA GeForce FX 5900 128MB Athlon XP 2400 KT 400 motherboard Windows XP Det 45's and Det 51's, quality settings, 4xAA, maximum anisotropic filtering, blend mimpmapping Testing tools used: Aquamark 3 Professional (I paid 10 bucks for it), Paint Shop Pro 7, and FRAPS Benchmarks: 1280X1024 (native resolution of LCD) Driver: FPS Det 45's 18.2 Det 51's 22.2 Image Quality Tests: OK, first I watched both benchmarks 3 times on each driver. I couldn't tell much difference, really. If I had to make a quick decision, I'd say the 45's looked somewhat better, more vibrant colors. Next, I used FRAPS to capture a series of frames detailing the main subject sub in the early part of the benchmark. I was able to capture two nearly identical frames: 609 for the 45's, and 608 for the 51's. Upon close inspection with Paint Shop Pro, I could clearly spot the differences between the two drivers and images. Overall, the current official 45 drivers have a much better dynamic range- colors are overall more vivid, especially yellows and greens, but also the lighting is slightly better for the current, official drivers. I saw no color banding in either set of drivers . It's a tough call, but I think the newer 51 drivers perhaps sacrifice too much image quality. The difference is slight, but noticeable on close inspection. And the shame of it, they are sacrificing this image quality for only about 4 extra frames-per-second. Overall my subjective experience was that both drivers ran the game about the same in terms of performance, neither one was particularly faster than the other. After all, we are talking about framerates that are only a little better than a slideshow in either case. Conclusion: NVidia needs to find a way to increase driver performance without sacrificing too much image quality. Failing that, NVidia should use a slider setting so that users might be able to choose their own trade-offs between performance and image quality. |
#2
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Oh, and I should also add... I just used Paint Shop Pro to count the
colors in the images, and the Det 51's are displaying 2000 fewer colors. "magnulus" wrote in message ... OK, responding to criticisms of my previous test, I decided to do a more thorough test using only the GeForce 5900 on one machine. First, the system setup: EVGA GeForce FX 5900 128MB Athlon XP 2400 KT 400 motherboard Windows XP Det 45's and Det 51's, quality settings, 4xAA, maximum anisotropic filtering, blend mimpmapping Testing tools used: Aquamark 3 Professional (I paid 10 bucks for it), Paint Shop Pro 7, and FRAPS Benchmarks: 1280X1024 (native resolution of LCD) Driver: FPS Det 45's 18.2 Det 51's 22.2 Image Quality Tests: OK, first I watched both benchmarks 3 times on each driver. I couldn't tell much difference, really. If I had to make a quick decision, I'd say the 45's looked somewhat better, more vibrant colors. Next, I used FRAPS to capture a series of frames detailing the main subject sub in the early part of the benchmark. I was able to capture two nearly identical frames: 609 for the 45's, and 608 for the 51's. Upon close inspection with Paint Shop Pro, I could clearly spot the differences between the two drivers and images. Overall, the current official 45 drivers have a much better dynamic range- colors are overall more vivid, especially yellows and greens, but also the lighting is slightly better for the current, official drivers. I saw no color banding in either set of drivers . It's a tough call, but I think the newer 51 drivers perhaps sacrifice too much image quality. The difference is slight, but noticeable on close inspection. And the shame of it, they are sacrificing this image quality for only about 4 extra frames-per-second. Overall my subjective experience was that both drivers ran the game about the same in terms of performance, neither one was particularly faster than the other. After all, we are talking about framerates that are only a little better than a slideshow in either case. Conclusion: NVidia needs to find a way to increase driver performance without sacrificing too much image quality. Failing that, NVidia should use a slider setting so that users might be able to choose their own trade-offs between performance and image quality. |
#3
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"magnulus" wrote in message
... Oh, and I should also add... I just used Paint Shop Pro to count the colors in the , and the Det 51's are displaying 2000 fewer colors. Would it be possible that the color difference is because you are comparing two different frames. They're pretty close, but they're still not the same frames? Harry -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
#4
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"Harry Muscle" wrote in message ... "magnulus" wrote in message ... Oh, and I should also add... I just used Paint Shop Pro to count the colors in the , and the Det 51's are displaying 2000 fewer colors. Would it be possible that the color difference is because you are comparing two different frames. They're pretty close, but they're still not the same frames? Harry Possible, although the images otherwise look identical to me just check out this website:http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/..._nvidia/dx9_re l50/001.htm The ATI Halo picture has 17000 more colors than the NVidia one (which is running Detonator 50). I used Paint Shop Pro 7 to analyze the pictures. |
#5
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"Lenny" wrote in message ... The ATI Halo picture has 17000 more colors than the NVidia one (which is running Detonator 50). I used Paint Shop Pro 7 to analyze the pictures. When you do this color counting stuff, just make sure you're not using jpeg images as your base comparison, because that would skew the results. Maybe not to the extent of adding or removing as much as 17.000 shades, but jpeg IS a very heavy-handed compression scheme. Just FYI... Yes, but they are both JPG. That would only be valid if one were an uncompressed bitmap and the other a jpeg. I would assume JPEG compression removes an even amount of all colors, right? You can look at both images and tell that one of them is alot darker than the other, with more washed out colors. I also did a comparison of 3 different Aquamark jpg images that were greyscaled, one was ATI, one was GeForce at full precision (32-bit), another one was at 16 bit. And the GeForce-32-bit actually had the most shades of grey (about 4500), more than the ATI, but the 16-bit was the worst. There were several hundred more shades in the NVidia-32-bit image than the ATI image, and about 1000 more in the 32-bit vs. the 16-bit. Working with uncompressed images would be the best, but if JPEG's all you have, that's all you have. Here's another case... two uncompressed bitmaps I took from Aquamark 3: Det 45 frame 609 has 39134 colors Det 51 frame 609 has 36926 colors That's a difference of 2208 colors. Det 51 is displaying about 5 percent fewer colors. If you do a subtraction function of the two images, you find most of the color loss is concentrated on the submarine hull, almost exclusively (terrain lighting is mostly unaffected). Rather than being a bright greenish-yellow, it's more a dark, muddy green. |
#6
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magnulus wrote:
website:http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/..._nvidia/dx9_re l50/001.htm ROTFLOL do you realize your are comparing two JPEG images (meaning they are compressed with degradation) ? -- XandreX /I'm that kind of people your parents warned you about/ |
#7
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"Harry Muscle" wrote in message ... "magnulus" wrote in message ... Oh, and I should also add... I just used Paint Shop Pro to count the colors in the , and the Det 51's are displaying 2000 fewer colors. Would it be possible that the color difference is because you are comparing two different frames. They're pretty close, but they're still not the same frames? Harry Update, I just captured two identical frames at 609, and the difference in color depth is still there. Still about 5 percent of all the colors missing in the NV_51.75 version, and to top it off most of the color loss is concentrated on the submarine and some of the lighting effects. OH, and these are NOT JPEGS, THEY ARE 32-BIT-BITMAPS! |
#8
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magnulus wrote:
I would assume JPEG compression removes an even amount of all colors, right? Of course not !! Take a file filled with '1' and another one containing an english message, and then zip both of them. Compression rate is not the same, and so is degradation when you do a JPEG compression. Moreover, you don't even know if the JPEG configuration was the same when making both images. Here's another case... two uncompressed bitmaps I took from Aquamark 3: That comparison is far more interessting indeed. BUT you took PSP because you could'nt see the difference with your own eye (nobody blames you, you're not the six million dollar man you're just a regular human). I guess it is logical to say you won't see the difference while playing either. -- XandreX /I'm that kind of people your parents warned you about/ |
#9
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all i know is thank you for the info
seems like what you are doing is some very advanced research "magnulus" wrote in message ... "Harry Muscle" wrote in message ... "magnulus" wrote in message ... Oh, and I should also add... I just used Paint Shop Pro to count the colors in the , and the Det 51's are displaying 2000 fewer colors. Would it be possible that the color difference is because you are comparing two different frames. They're pretty close, but they're still not the same frames? Harry Update, I just captured two identical frames at 609, and the difference in color depth is still there. Still about 5 percent of all the colors missing in the NV_51.75 version, and to top it off most of the color loss is concentrated on the submarine and some of the lighting effects. OH, and these are NOT JPEGS, THEY ARE 32-BIT-BITMAPS! |
#10
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"Lenny" wrote in message
... I would assume JPEG compression removes an even amount of all colors, right? Well, assuming every pixel in the image was identical, that would be the case yeah. Since the two driver versions do not produce the same output that's not exactly the case. well since he is comparing the very SAME frame on both drivers seeing a reduction in colors on the newer version of drivers does seem to indicate, at least to me, that there is some adjusting down of color display in the new drivers to help up its general scores. And your right in the comment that the 2 drivers are not producing the same output, which is what some are concerned with hehe. Whether tweaking the drivers to down sample number of colors to improve speed would fall into the "real optimizations" or another undisclosed cheat I have no idea. Have seen a fair number of posts and articles discussing that yes you do get a bit more performance out of 51's but their also saying IQ has dropped again. If that is the case then it would seem Nvidia is once again jerking ppl around about how good its stuff is when in fact what their doing is reducing their quality to claim performance. I loved all my nvidia cards Riva 128,lightspeed128 TnT2 GF3 but when I got a fx5200 I wanted to puke. Sent that back got a 5600 ultra and at same time recieved a 9800 as a gift so compared both and decided to put the ATI in my main computer and the FX is in a box I rarely ever use. Maybe next gen of chips Ill come back IF nvidia gets its act together and starts sticking with industry standards so that the cards can be relyed on once more. |
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