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NTL to PC and Xbox



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 10th 04, 12:41 PM
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default NTL to PC and Xbox

Hi all!

I posted in the Xbox newsgroup trying to get help with this and although it
has been a great help, I thought you guys might have a little knowledge on
this also:

"When i log on to my computer at home the NTL broadband connection is always
on but when i get to work i have to connect myself to my BT broadband
connection.

Are my details (username and password) stored on my NTL modem for it to
connect all by itself, or does it require me to have my pc on?

The reason I ask is that I was just wondering if i can connect my xbox
(chipped)
directly to my modem, without the pc being on. At the moment the modem is
connected to the pc using USB, the Ethernet connection on my modem is free.
Can both be in at once, and the modem still work?"

What I'm looking for (which was advised by the Xbox group) is a
router/modem.

Must be a cable modem with built in router so as to connect to the internet
by itself when switched on, and then for the xbox to be able to connect to
the internet without the pc needing to be on (through Ethernet) and also for
the pc to do the same. I also need for the xbox to be able to 'talk' to the
pc for streaming music and video files from the pc.

I hope i haven't confused anyone as i think I've really confused myself!!!

Thanks for any help that can be given

Scott


  #2  
Old September 10th 04, 02:20 PM
anthony fidler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My pc does not have to be on for my kids pc to access the internet through
my wireless router so i should think it should be the same for the xbox. I
to have ntl broadband and also will be getting an xbox soon so let me know
how tou get on.

"Scott" wrote in message
...
Hi all!

I posted in the Xbox newsgroup trying to get help with this and although

it
has been a great help, I thought you guys might have a little knowledge on
this also:

"When i log on to my computer at home the NTL broadband connection is

always
on but when i get to work i have to connect myself to my BT broadband
connection.

Are my details (username and password) stored on my NTL modem for it to
connect all by itself, or does it require me to have my pc on?

The reason I ask is that I was just wondering if i can connect my xbox
(chipped)
directly to my modem, without the pc being on. At the moment the modem is
connected to the pc using USB, the Ethernet connection on my modem is

free.
Can both be in at once, and the modem still work?"

What I'm looking for (which was advised by the Xbox group) is a
router/modem.

Must be a cable modem with built in router so as to connect to the

internet
by itself when switched on, and then for the xbox to be able to connect to
the internet without the pc needing to be on (through Ethernet) and also

for
the pc to do the same. I also need for the xbox to be able to 'talk' to

the
pc for streaming music and video files from the pc.

I hope i haven't confused anyone as i think I've really confused myself!!!

Thanks for any help that can be given

Scott




  #3  
Old September 10th 04, 07:11 PM
ady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott"
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 12:41 PM
Subject: NTL to PC and Xbox


Hi all!

I posted in the Xbox newsgroup trying to get help with this and although

it
has been a great help, I thought you guys might have a little knowledge on
this also:

"When i log on to my computer at home the NTL broadband connection is

always
on but when i get to work i have to connect myself to my BT broadband
connection.

Are my details (username and password) stored on my NTL modem for it to
connect all by itself, or does it require me to have my pc on?


No - it's perm connected even when PC is off. I have 5 machines all plugged
into a router - doesn't matter which if any is turned on for them all to see
internet


The reason I ask is that I was just wondering if i can connect my xbox
(chipped)
directly to my modem, without the pc being on. At the moment the modem is
connected to the pc using USB, the Ethernet connection on my modem is

free.
Can both be in at once, and the modem still work?"

What I'm looking for (which was advised by the Xbox group) is a
router/modem.

Must be a cable modem with built in router so as to connect to the

internet
by itself when switched on, and then for the xbox to be able to connect to
the internet without the pc needing to be on (through Ethernet) and also

for
the pc to do the same. I also need for the xbox to be able to 'talk' to

the
pc for streaming music and video files from the pc.


How do you connect at moment? Set top box or standalone modem? Either way a
router (not modem/router will do the job.

I hope i haven't confused anyone as i think I've really confused myself!!!

Thanks for any help that can be given

Scott




  #4  
Old September 11th 04, 02:55 PM
Peter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,=20
says...
Hi all!
=20
I posted in the Xbox newsgroup trying to get help with this and although =

it=20
has been a great help, I thought you guys might have a little knowledge o=

n=20
this also:
=20
"When i log on to my computer at home the NTL broadband connection is alw=

ays
on but when i get to work i have to connect myself to my BT broadband
connection.
=20
Are my details (username and password) stored on my NTL modem for it to
connect all by itself, or does it require me to have my pc on?
=20
The reason I ask is that I was just wondering if i can connect my xbox=20
(chipped)
directly to my modem, without the pc being on. At the moment the modem is
connected to the pc using USB, the Ethernet connection on my modem is fre=

e.
Can both be in at once, and the modem still work?"
=20
What I'm looking for (which was advised by the Xbox group) is a=20
router/modem.
=20
Must be a cable modem with built in router so as to connect to the intern=

et=20
by itself when switched on, and then for the xbox to be able to connect t=

o=20
the internet without the pc needing to be on (through Ethernet) and also =

for=20
the pc to do the same. I also need for the xbox to be able to 'talk' to t=

he=20
pc for streaming music and video files from the pc.
=20


I think what you're looking for is a router/modem with more than 1=20
ethernet port. There are many out there with 4 ports that are not too=20
expensive. About =A350 here in the UK. Just check out some of the online=
=20
computer sellers, such as Ebuyer, Dabs , RL Supplies, Komplett, etc. to=20
get an idea of price.

You can then plug both your computer and Xbox in simultaneously to the=20
router, whilst the router connects to the internet. Because both=20
devices are connected to the router this also means they are on the same=20
network and should, theoretically, be able to communicate with each=20
other also, though I'm no Xbox expert, so can't confirm that.

I own a Netgear DG834, which is great for having more than one computer=20
connected to the internet at the same time.

--=20
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email
  #5  
Old September 12th 04, 12:34 PM
JS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Scott" wrote in
:


Are my details (username and password) stored on my NTL modem for it
to connect all by itself, or does it require me to have my pc on?


No. Typically 'always on' connections do not require usernames and
passwords. And, no, your PC is not required to be on or connected
for your broadband connection to function. BTW, is your connection
cable modem or DSL?

The reason I ask is that I was just wondering if i can connect my xbox
(chipped)
directly to my modem, without the pc being on.


Yes, you can connect your XBOX directly to a broadband modem (not a phone
modem) without your PC any any other device being involved. Whenever you
switch from PC to XBOX you may need to re-boot your modem by removing power
momentarily. This would not be necessary if you add a router or hub to your
system. See below.


At the moment the modemis connected to the pc using USB, the Ethernet
connection on my modem is free. Can both be used at once, and the modem
still work?"


Probably you cannot use both the USB and Ethernet connections on the modem
at the same time. All my experience thus far has been that is an either/or
situation. Use either USB or use Ethernet but not both at the same time. To
connect more than one device to the modem at the same time you will need
either:

1. A modem with an internal router and an internal hub or switch. I'm not
sure these even exist. Anyone know what the combination broadband
modem/router/hub or switch availability situation is? You would also have
to check with your ISP to see what is supported by your ISP.

or

2. A stand alone router with internal hub or internal switch. Being
external to the PC will allow using it without the PC being on or
connected. These are common home networking components available wherever
computer stuff is sold.

I recommend a stand alone router (external to both the PC and modem) with
an internal hub or an internal switch. The router will typically include a
hardware firewall thus improving your Ethernet security. The internal
switch or internal hub will allow connecting mutiple devices to the web.
Also, a router external to your modem will be a more versatile solution. If
you switch ISP's your external router will be compatible with the new modem
(assuming it has an Ethernet connection which it probably will). A Switch
is a little smarter than a hub so it would be more expensive. A hub should
do just fine. You CANNOT connect a switch or hub directly to the modem. The
modem will not function correctly connected directly to a hub or switch
unless the modem has an internal router.

Keep in mind that many ISP's charge more if you use more than one IP
address or connect more than one device to the modem. Your ISP will claim
you are doing this if you use a modem with an internal router and will try
to charge you more for this 'additional' service. A modem with an internal
router will tell your ISP that this is what your are doing so, your
hardware will give away what you are doing. However, if you use a router
external to your modem you will still be using only one IP address and your
hardware will not give away the fact that you have multiple devices
connected to the internet through your modem. Some ISP's claim that they do
not support this configuration but all that means is that customer support
will not help you out if you have a problem with the router. They are just
trying to get you to pay more for no good reason other than their
profitability. It does NOT mean that it will not work. It very definitely
WILL work. To be extra cautious, some routers will copy the MAC address out
of your PC and use it to communciate with the modem. By doing so your ISP
will never know that your hardware has changed. I know that at least one
Netgear wireless router does this. Respond and I can get the model number
for you.

In short, use a stand alone router (external to your PC and broadband
modem) with an internal hub or an internal switch. If the router does not
have an internal hub or an internal switch you will have to get a separate
hub or switch. You CANNOT connect a switch or hub directly to the modem
unless it has an internal router and I recommend not getting a modem with
an internal router (see above).


What I'm looking for (which was advised by the Xbox group) is a
router/modem.


You want a router, not a modem. They are not the same.

Must be a cable modem with built in router so as to connect to the
internet by itself when switched on, and then for the xbox to be able
to connect to the internet without the pc needing to be on (through
Ethernet) and also for the pc to do the same.


Doesn't 'need' to be a cable modem with built in router. There are other,
much better, options. See above.

I also need for the xbox
to be able to 'talk' to the pc for streaming music and video files
from the pc.


A router in combination with a switch or hub will make this possible from
the hardware standpoint. Can the XBOX stream music and video right out of
the box? Check out:

http://kevinrose.typepad.com/
http://www.g4techtv.com/screensavers/index.html

I have seen Kevin demo stuff that may do the streaming stuff you want to
do. He has one XBOX hack that does not require a mod chip and will install
linux on the XBOX. Linux may provide a platform which will enable media
streaming.

Some more basic info:

A router will typically have two kinds of Ethernet ports on it.

1. It will have one Upstream port. Connect this port to the broadband
modem.

2. It will also have some number (possibly 4 or 8 or more, how many do you
need?) of downstream ports. Each device you want to connect to the Web, and
to each other, will require at least (and generally not more than) one
downstream port. So far I think you need two downstream ports. One for the
PC and one for the XBOX.

If you hook this up, you should remove power from the modem before you hook
up the the router. Many modems will 'lock' themselves to the first device
they see. So if your modem has been connected to your PC, if you simply
move the modem connection to the router, the modem will not communicate
with the router. By removing power from the router you will force it to re-
boot and look for a new device to communicate with. In other words, the
only way to unlock the modem is to remove power mometarily. Give it 15
seconds or so, without power. To enusre all power is removed disconnect any
USB and/or Ethernet cables as well. Simply turning off the modem will not
work. You must force a re-boot by removing all power sources from the
modem.


Try these Steps:

1. Shutdown the PC and unplug it.
2. Shutdown the XBOX and unplug it.
3. Remove power from modem. Don't just turn it off. Disconnect the power
cable from the modem or unplug the modem power supply from the wall socket.
Also disconnect any USB or Ethernet cables. You must force it to re-boot by
completely isolating it from any possible power sources. Leave it
unplugged or disconnected from the power cable for now.
4. Wait for at least 15 seconds.
5. Connect the router to the modem with an Ethernet cable. Do NOT turn on
or plug in the router yet.
6. Connect the PC to the router with an Ethernet cable. Do NOT plug in the
PC yet. I don't know if you can get a router with a USB connection for the
PC. Have you got Ethernet in your PC?
7. Connect the XBOX to the router with an Ethernet cable. Do NOT plug in
the XBOX yet. I'm assuming the XBOX uses standard Ethernet cables.

Cable type:

Cat5, Cat5e or Cat6, RJ45 connectors, 'patch cable' NOT 'crossover cable'.
Cat5 should do the trick. Cat5e and Cat6 are higher performance and also
more expensive and probably not necessary.

8. Restore power to the modem. Wait for it to complete its boot process.
Give it 3 minutes if you can't tell when its done booting. Look for the
lights to settle into some constant pattern.
9. Plug in an turn on the router. Wait for it to boot. See the
documentation that comes with it to be able to tell when the boot process
is done. Otherwise give it 3 minutes and look for a constant pattern on its
lights.
10. Plug in, turn on, and boot your PC. There may be some software to
install at this point. Be sure to read your router install documentation
carefully.
11. Plug in and turn on your XBOX.
12. You should be 'Good to Go' at this point. You should be able to access
the web from your PC. Try your browser. As for the XBOX I'm going to leave
that to you. I believe you need an 'Internet Kit' of some kind and I'm not
sure what 'streaming media' will require. I don't have an XBOX myself.

If you want to avoid cables you might want to look at a wireless router.
With a wireless router and a wireless access point you won't need a cable
from the router to the XBOX. The router goes to the modem and the access
point goes to the XBOX and the access point to router connection is of
course wireless. You will need a short cable from the XBOX to the access
point. If you put a wireless access card in your PC then you won't need a
cable for the PC. Another option is to use a wireless USB access point for
the PC. I believe Netgear and Linksys have wireless USB access points. This
might be useful if you don't already have an Ethernet connection in the PC.

Once it is all hooked up you can connect and disconnect the PC and XBOX to
your hearts content without going through all the steps above. If you get a
new Ethernet capable device, i.e. a laptop or another PC, just plug it into
a free socket on the router. If there are no free sockets just disconnect
something and use the newly open socket. Switching back and forth this way
will not be a problem.

The last thing I've thought of is that you may need to configure your PC
and XBOX for DHCP. This will depend on how your modem and PC are currently
configured. My experience has been that you duplicate the your current
networking config from the PC into the router. (DHCP, DNS, WINS, subnet
mask, etc) On win98 use winipcfg to determine the relevant details. WINNT,
Win2000, and WinXP have similar commands. You may be able to use 'ipconfig
/all' in a DOS box as well. Use 'ipconfig /?' for help on 'ipconfig'. This
is most of the big stuff you'll encounter but is NOT a comprehenive guide.
See the router documentation and windows networking help files for more
details. It probably won't be that difficult to do.

Good Luck
  #6  
Old September 13th 04, 10:43 AM
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


How do you connect at moment? Set top box or standalone modem? Either way
a
router (not modem/router will do the job.


At the moment I am connecting my modem (standalone) to my PC via USB. Am
definitely thinking of getting a cable router to make life easier.

I always thought that the point of a cable router was to connect the cable
to the router and do away with the NTL modem supplied. If this is not the
case, then what is the difference between the cable router (which i assume
you connect to modem via Ethernet) and a ADSL router (which i also assume
you connect via Ethernet)?

Is the signal somehow different?

Scott


  #7  
Old September 13th 04, 10:43 AM
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jesus!
Thanks for all the info!

Will give it a better read later when i get home and try and soak some of it
in!

Thanks again for all the help.

Scott


  #8  
Old September 13th 04, 05:47 PM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scott wrote:

How do you connect at moment? Set top box or standalone modem? Either way
a
router (not modem/router will do the job.



At the moment I am connecting my modem (standalone) to my PC via USB. Am
definitely thinking of getting a cable router to make life easier.

I always thought that the point of a cable router was to connect the cable
to the router and do away with the NTL modem supplied. If this is not the
case, then what is the difference between the cable router (which i assume
you connect to modem via Ethernet) and a ADSL router (which i also assume
you connect via Ethernet)?

Is the signal somehow different?

Scott



Part of the confusion comes from functions being combined into 'all-in-one'
boxes, which isn't necessarily a 'bad' thing, but you need to think of them
separately and then look at what 'the box' has.

Modem - Modulator/Demodulator: It's function is to provide signals
compatible with the external communication medium. Specifically, a medium
that uses some form of frequency modulation, as in ADSL, Cable, and 'plain'
phone lines. The three use different modulation techniques, and operate at
different speeds, dictated by the medium so one type of modem does not work
for the other type.

Hub: A multiport 'fan out' device that just sends incoming data on any port
out on all the other ports, and vice versa. It's cheap, because it needs no
'smarts', and, for very small LANs, the penalty of loading every line with
all data is not, usually, unbearable.

Router (simple): A router is a multiport device that looks at the intended
address of the data and sends it to only the port that includes the
destination. The point is there's no reason (except for cheap) to send data
to places it need not go and sending all data 'everywhere' would soon
overload any network of significant size, rendering it useless.

Bridge: A device that translates between two different communication
mediums/protocols. Data is embedded in the 'alien' protocol going in, and
extracted from it coming out, so that the 'alien' protocol is transparent.
It 'bridges' them.

That sounds like enough but a home multi-computer setup, I.E. a local LAN,
adds another problem: your local LAN addresses are not valid for internet
use. They are for local use only. The modem IP is valid, but not the
addresses of each computer.

Enter a new router function type called "Network Address Translation" or,
for short, NAT. The NAT function sits between the internet modem and your
local LAN fielding requests from the local computers, reformatting it into
a modem IP request, sending it out over the modem and then matching
incoming data with who made the request so it can send it back to the
computer that asked for it. That's fine for request-reply traffic but still
a problem for unsolicited incoming data, such as an incoming call for
voice-over-IP, so NAT includes the ability to statically assign ports to a
specific computer and, in that case, simply sends whatever comes in that
port to the designated machine whether it was asked for or not. That's not
perfect either (don't try to call two different machines from the same
internet port) but the best one can do.

OK, so when one says "a cable modem" we know it has the 'cable modem'
function but, with people combining functions yet not adding tons of
acronyms to the name, what else, if anything, does it include?

A single port cable modem need not have anything other than the cable modem
function and a port to the computer. Done deal.

A multi-computer cable modem must also have, at least, NAT: a 'router'
function. The 4 ports, or whatever, could still be simply, and most likely
are, a hub function. It will also have DHCP to assign local addresses and,
perhaps, a firewall. (once you have 'smarts' then adding 'extras' doesn't
cost so much more)

But then we also have "cable modem, with wireless." So now we have the
wireless function added, bridged to the ethernet LAN, plus other functions
needed for the wireless links to operate properly (Infrastructure mode,
station I.D., WEP, etc). And, of course, DHCP and a firewall like the
non-wirelss cable modem.

Note that, in any of the 'cable modem' types, the 'traditional' computer
connection is via ethernet but that isn't the 'only' way (since we know
about bridges now), as USB cable modems demonstrate. But USB is not a
multiport device in both directions (I.E. you can have multiple USB devices
on one computer but not multiple computers on one USB device) so it's a
'one to one' link as far as the cable modem function is concerned. The
single USB port is 'bridged' to the cable modem inside the cable modem box.

I noticed that your cable modem is a USB connection. If it has no ethernet
port too then it can only connect to one computer. A new 'all-in-one' modem
would solve that, or you could use Windows "Internet Connection Sharing"
(ICS). As you can guess, now that you're thinking 'functions', ICS is
simply using the computer to do NAT and routing to the local LAN just as
those functions in a separate 'all-in-one' modem would. The down side, of
course, is that for those functions to be 'on', so that the other computers
can access the internet, the ICS computer must be 'on' too.

  #9  
Old September 14th 04, 09:53 AM
Scott
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I noticed that your cable modem is a USB connection. If it has no ethernet
port too then it can only connect to one computer. A new 'all-in-one'
modem would solve that, or you could use Windows "Internet Connection
Sharing" (ICS). As you can guess, now that you're thinking 'functions',
ICS is simply using the computer to do NAT and routing to the local LAN
just as those functions in a separate 'all-in-one' modem would. The down
side, of course, is that for those functions to be 'on', so that the other
computers can access the internet, the ICS computer must be 'on' too.


Thanks for the info!

I'm currently connected to my modem via USB but it also has the option for
Ethernet connection.
I choose the USB option as the Xbox is connected to my PC via the Ethernet
connection.

Scott


 




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