Help! Major Memory Installation Issue

This actually refers back to a thread I started several days ago under a different ID where I asked about adding memory to the M3A motherboard.

I updated that thread again a few minutes ago because of the major problem I encountered. I wanted to update it again but Google Groups is not letting me add to it. Since I don't know if Paul or any of the others in this newsgroup are still following the old thread anyway, I thought I'd cover myself by starting a new thread.

In a nutshell, I have an M3A mobo with 2 GB of memory running Windows XP SP3. I'm having some trouble getting a key app to run and it claims to be having memory issues. I bought the memory Paul recommended, Kingston Valueram KVR800D2N6K2/2G to add two more GB of memory to my existing 2 GB. Today, when I installed the new memory, I managed to bugger things up. I added the two new memory cards to the vacant slots which are the second and fourth from the left and re-powered the computer but now the monitor won't show anything. It's a Samsung Syncmaster T260 and it powers up fine, shows the Samsung logo, and cycles through its three standard options of Digital, HDMI, and Analog but doesn't respond when I select the proper choice, Digital (or any of the others for that matter). I don't see the ASUS splash screen when I power the computer on nor any BIOS screens. Removing the new memory hasn't helped.

The other symptom I have is that I have a cooling contraption mounted on the CPU. This computer is 3.5 years old and I don't have the original receipts handy but the cooling contraption appears to be a Zerotherm Butterfly BTF90 like this one: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...?EdpNo=2882721. Mine may be a slightly older model but it looks a LOT like this one. There's is a red LED (or maybe two) just above the fan and it is on solidly whenever the computer is powered on. I don't recall that coming on before but I may not have noticed. If it isn't normally on, it may be providing a big clue about what my problem is. Unfortunately, I'm not positive if it is always on and I can't find anything in its manual that indicates the purpose of that LED. So maybe this is not relevant to my problem after all. This is a link to the manual: http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/...ler_Manual.pdf

My desktop is completely useless in its current state and I really need to get it working again. I'm not sure what I've done or why removing the new memory didn't eliminate the problem. Any help would be very much appreciated! I'm just glad I got a laptop for Christmas or I'd be having a much harder time posting this question....

--
Rhino

wrote:
This actually refers back to a thread I started several days ago under a
different ID where I asked about adding memory to the M3A motherboard.

I updated that thread again a few minutes ago because of the major problem
I encountered. I wanted to update it again but Google Groups is not letting
me add to it. Since I don't know if Paul or any of the others in this
newsgroup are still following the old thread anyway, I thought I'd cover
myself by starting a new thread.

In a nutshell, I have an M3A mobo with 2 GB of memory running Windows XP SP3.

I'm having some trouble getting a key app to run and it claims to be having
memory issues. I bought the memory Paul recommended, Kingston Valueram
KVR800D2N6K2/2G to add two more GB of memory to my existing 2 GB. Today,
when I installed the new memory, I managed to bugger things up. I added the
two new memory cards to the vacant slots which are the second and fourth
from the left and re-powered the computer but now the monitor won't show
anything. It's a Samsung Syncmaster T260 and it powers up fine, shows the
Samsung logo, and cycles through its three standard options of Digital, HDMI,
and Analog but doesn't respond when I select the proper choice, Digital
(or any of the others for that matter). I don't see the ASUS splash screen
when I power the computer on nor any BIOS screens. Removing the new memory
hasn't helped.

The other symptom I have is that I have a cooling contraption mounted on
the CPU. This computer is 3.5 years old and I don't have the original receipts
handy but the cooling contraption appears to be a Zerotherm Butterfly BTF90

like this one: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...?EdpNo=2882721. Mine may be a slightly older model but it looks a LOT like this one. There's is a red LED (or maybe two) just above the fan and it is on solidly whenever the computer is powered on. I don't recall that coming on before but I may not have noticed. If it isn't normally on, it may be providing a big clue about what my problem is. Unfortunately, I'm not positive if it is always on and I can't find anything in its manual that indicates the purpose of that LED. So maybe this is not relevant to my problem after all. This is a link to the manual: http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/...ler_Manual.pdf

My desktop is completely useless in its current state and I really need
to get it working again. I'm not sure what I've done or why removing the
new memory didn't eliminate the problem. Any help would be very much
appreciated! I'm just glad I got a laptop for Christmas or I'd be having
a much harder time posting this question....


The manual mentions LEDs, but not their function.

http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/...ler_Manual.pdf

They appear to be simple illumination, and located
in the fan body. They really should not flash, if the
power feeding the fan is OK. If the actual LED is flashing,
then you'd expect plenty of stuff on the computer to appear
to be going on and off. That would be a power supply problem,
or a problem with PS_ON# signal on the main connector cable.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2299/2

*******

1) Check that the monitor cable is seated.

2) If you're using a video card, make sure the screw
holding the video cardfaceplate, isn't loose, and the video card
is half out of the slot. That would prevent the monitor
from working. Modern video cards have a "heel clamp", to
prevent that from happening.

3) If you removed the ATX12V 2x2 square connector, that will
stop the computer from posting.

4) Continue doing visual inspection, to see if you removed
anything.

5) Remove all RAM, with all power off. *Never* insert or remove
RAM, while the system is powered. On an Asus motherboard,
when the green LED is not lit, only then is it safe to
change memory. The green LED monitors +5VSB, and when the
LED is extinguished, then there is no standby power in the RAM
slots.

6) With all RAM removed, switch on. The case speaker connected to
SPKR on the panel header, that speaker should start beeping. The
beeping tells you:

a) The processor is powered (ATX12V 2x2 is in place).
b) The case speaker is connected.
c) The processor ran some BIOS code.
d) The processor programmed the speaker beeping (two or three
beeps, and a repetitive pattern). The ability to continue the
beep pattern, is supervised by CPU code. So much of the computer
is running, if you heat the beeps. The computer is "running the
beep code" and has not crashed. A completely silent computer
(no beeps) is in serious trouble.

7) You can re-insert RAM, as you see fit.

a) Always make sure the RAM is fully seated. I check that the
gold contacts are "submerged" into the connector. If a lot of
gold is showing, the modules aren't really seated. The two arms
should go into the locked positions. My Kingston modules here
(the low profile ones), have extreme force requirements on
insertion, which makes my fingers hurt.

The last time I installed new Kingston, I nearly had a
disaster here. As I thought I had them seated. But I checked,
checked, and rechecked, and they weren't actually seated.
(I hadn't turned on the power yet, something just didn't sound
right while I was installing them.) After some more bashing,
they finally went into place. The reason this happens, is the
bevel angle on the insertion edge of the memory module.
It's a blunt angle, high friction. A Kingston "feature".

b) Insert one stick of good RAM, in the good slots. Test.
There should be a single beep, as POST begins. If other beep
patterns exist (similar to the no-RAM beep pattern), that's
a RAM or RAM slot problem. Report the beep pattern.

c) If that slot does not work, try the other good stick, in the
other known good slot. Keep the remaining RAM sticks, in their
individual antistatic packages.

d) There is no need to test the new RAM, until you can figure out
what happened to the old stuff.

Report back - especially all the beep results. Make sure your
case SPKR is connected to the panel header.

Paul

On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 16:17:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

This actually refers back to a thread I started several days ago under a different ID where I asked about adding memory to the M3A motherboard.

I updated that thread again a few minutes ago because of the major problem I encountered. I wanted to update it again but Google Groups is not letting me add to it. Since I don't know if Paul or any of the others in this newsgroup are still following the old thread anyway, I thought I'd cover myself by starting a new thread.

In a nutshell, I have an M3A mobo with 2 GB of memory running Windows XP SP3. I'm having some trouble getting a key app to run and it claims to be having memory issues. I bought the memory Paul recommended, Kingston Valueram KVR800D2N6K2/2G to add two more GB of memory to my existing 2 GB. Today, when I installed the new memory, I managed to bugger things up. I added the two new memory cards to the vacant slots which are the second and fourth from the left and re-powered the computer but now the monitor won't show anything. It's a Samsung Syncmaster T260 and it powers up fine, shows the Samsung logo, and cycles through its three standard options of Digital, HDMI, and Analog but doesn't respond when I select the proper choice, Digital (or any of the others for that matter). I don't see the ASUS splash screen when I power the computer on nor any BIOS screens. Removing the new memory hasn't helped.

How much force did you use to insert the memory? I have seen people crack a motherboard
when too much force is applied.

On 18 Apr, 02:14, Gettamulla Tupya wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 16:17:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
This actually refers back to a thread I started several days ago under a different ID where I asked about adding memory to the M3A motherboard.

I updated that thread again a few minutes ago because of the major problem I encountered. I wanted to update it again but Google Groups is not letting me add to it. Since I don't know if Paul or any of the others in this newsgroup are still following the old thread anyway, I thought I'd cover myself by starting a new thread.

In a nutshell, I have an M3A mobo with 2 GB of memory running Windows XP SP3. I'm having some trouble getting a key app to run and it claims to be having memory issues. I bought the memory Paul recommended, Kingston Valueram KVR800D2N6K2/2G to add two more GB of memory to my existing 2 GB. Today, when I installed the new memory, I managed to bugger things up. I added the two new memory cards to the vacant slots which are the second and fourth from the left and re-powered the computer but now the monitor won't show anything. It's a Samsung Syncmaster T260 and it powers up fine, shows the Samsung logo, and cycles through its three standard options of Digital, HDMI, and Analog but doesn't respond when I select the proper choice, Digital (or any of the others for that matter). I don't see the ASUS splash screen when I power the computer on nor any BIOS screens. Removing the new memory hasn't helped.

How much force did you use to insert the memory? *I have seen people crack a motherboard
when too much force is applied.

I'm pretty sure I didn't apply excessive force. I'm pretty careful
about being firm but not excessive when I do this kind of thing. I
didn't hear anything cracking as I inserted the memory and was
listening for it.

On 17 Apr, 20:28, Paul wrote:
wrote:
This actually refers back to a thread I started several days ago under a
different ID where I asked about adding memory to the M3A motherboard.

I updated that thread again a few minutes ago because of the major problem
I encountered. I wanted to update it again but Google Groups is not letting
me add to it. Since I don't know if Paul or any of the others in this
newsgroup are still following the old thread anyway, I thought I'd cover
myself by starting a new thread.

In a nutshell, I have an M3A mobo with 2 GB of memory running Windows XP SP3.

I'm having some trouble getting a key app to run and it claims to be having
memory issues. I bought the memory Paul recommended, Kingston Valueram
KVR800D2N6K2/2G to add two more GB of memory to my existing 2 GB. Today,
when I installed the new memory, I managed to bugger things up. I added the
two new memory cards to the vacant slots which are the second and fourth
from the left and re-powered the computer but now the monitor won't show
anything. It's a Samsung Syncmaster T260 and it powers up fine, shows the
Samsung logo, and cycles through its three standard options of Digital, HDMI,
and Analog but doesn't respond when I select the proper choice, Digital
(or any of the others for that matter). I don't see the ASUS splash screen
when I power the computer on nor any BIOS screens. Removing the new memory
hasn't helped.

The other symptom I have is that I have a cooling contraption mounted on
the CPU. This computer is 3.5 years old and I don't have the original receipts
handy but the cooling contraption appears to be a Zerotherm Butterfly BTF90
like this one:http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...-details.asp?E.... Mine may be a slightly older model but it looks a LOT like this one. There's is a red LED (or maybe two) just above the fan and it is on solidly whenever the computer is powered on. I don't recall that coming on before but I may not have noticed. If it isn't normally on, it may be providing a big clue about what my problem is. Unfortunately, I'm not positive if it is always on and I can't find anything in its manual that indicates the purpose of that LED. So maybe this is not relevant to my problem after all. This is a link to the manual:http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/...eries_Cooler_M...

My desktop is completely useless in its current state and I really need
to get it working again. I'm not sure what I've done or why removing the
new memory didn't eliminate the problem. Any help would be very much
appreciated! I'm just glad I got a laptop for Christmas or I'd be having
a much harder time posting this question....

The manual mentions LEDs, but not their function.

http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/...eries_Cooler_M...

They appear to be simple illumination, and located
in the fan body. They really should not flash, if the
power feeding the fan is OK. If the actual LED is flashing,
then you'd expect plenty of stuff on the computer to appear
to be going on and off. That would be a power supply problem,
or a problem with PS_ON# signal on the main connector cable.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2299/2


Okay, then the BTF90 LED was probably a red herring (as well as being
a red LED). I just never noticed that LED before.

*******

1) Check that the monitor cable is seated.

Yes, it definitely is. On both ends.

2) If you're using a video card, make sure the screw
* * holding the video cardfaceplate, isn't loose, and the video card
* * is half out of the slot. That would prevent the monitor
* * from working. Modern video cards have a "heel clamp", to
* * prevent that from happening.

I'm not seeing the screw but the card looks properly seated to me. I
can take photos if you like and put them somewhere you can see them.

3) If you removed the ATX12V 2x2 square connector, that will
* * stop the computer from posting.


I'm not sure where that is and haven't found it in the manual. But I
didn't do anything but shut the computer down before inserting the
memory. I shut it down again before removing the new memory.

4) Continue doing visual inspection, to see if you removed
* * anything.


See my answer to point 3.

5) Remove all RAM, with all power off. *Never* insert or remove
* * RAM, while the system is powered. On an Asus motherboard,
* * when the green LED is not lit, only then is it safe to
* * change memory. The green LED monitors +5VSB, and when the
* * LED is extinguished, then there is no standby power in the RAM
* * slots.

Uh oh. I didn't know the green LED had to be off. I did not turn it
off (via the power switch on the back or disconnecting the power for
the case) before inserting or removing the memory. That's never been
necessary on previous computers. Or maybe it was and I just got
lucky.

6) With all RAM removed, switch on. The case speaker connected to
* * SPKR on the panel header, that speaker should start beeping. The
* * beeping tells you:

* * a) The processor is powered (ATX12V 2x2 is in place).
* * b) The case speaker is connected.
* * c) The processor ran some BIOS code.
* * d) The processor programmed the speaker beeping (two or three
* * * *beeps, and a repetitive pattern). The ability to continue the
* * * *beep pattern, is supervised by CPU code. So much of the computer
* * * *is running, if you heat the beeps. The computer is "running the
* * * *beep code" and has not crashed. A completely silent computer
* * * *(no beeps) is in serious trouble.

I turned off the LED and removed all the memory. No beeps at all when
I powered up.

7) You can re-insert RAM, as you see fit.

* * a) Always make sure the RAM is fully seated. I check that the
* * * *gold contacts are "submerged" into the connector. If a lot of
* * * *gold is showing, the modules aren't really seated. The two arms
* * * *should go into the locked positions. My Kingston modules here
* * * *(the low profile ones), have extreme force requirements on
* * * *insertion, which makes my fingers hurt.

* * * *The last time I installed new Kingston, I nearly had a
* * * *disaster here. As I thought I had them seated. But I checked,
* * * *checked, and rechecked, and they weren't actually seated.
* * * *(I hadn't turned on the power yet, something just didn't sound
* * * *right while I was installing them.) *After some more bashing,
* * * *they finally went into place. The reason this happens, is the
* * * *bevel angle on the insertion edge of the memory module.
* * * *It's a blunt angle, high friction. A Kingston "feature".

* * b) Insert one stick of good RAM, in the good slots. Test.
* * * *There should be a single beep, as POST begins. If other beep
* * * *patterns exist (similar to the no-RAM beep pattern), that's
* * * *a RAM or RAM slot problem. Report the beep pattern.

* * c) If that slot does not work, try the other good stick, in the
* * * *other known good slot. Keep the remaining RAM sticks, in their
* * * *individual antistatic packages.

* * d) There is no need to test the new RAM, until you can figure out
* * * *what happened to the old stuff.

Report back - especially all the beep results. Make sure your
case SPKR is connected to the panel header.

What's a panel header and where is it? I'm not sure how to tell if the
SPKR is connected to it.

Have I hosed the whole computer here - motherboard, CPU and memory? Or
is the damage limited to (possibly) all of the memory, both old and
new?

--
Rhino

wrote:

5) Remove all RAM, with all power off. *Never* insert or remove
RAM, while the system is powered. On an Asus motherboard,
when the green LED is not lit, only then is it safe to
change memory. The green LED monitors +5VSB, and when the
LED is extinguished, then there is no standby power in the RAM
slots.

Uh oh. I didn't know the green LED had to be off. I did not turn it
off (via the power switch on the back or disconnecting the power for
the case) before inserting or removing the memory. That's never been
necessary on previous computers. Or maybe it was and I just got
lucky.

Uh oh.


6) With all RAM removed, switch on. The case speaker connected to
SPKR on the panel header, that speaker should start beeping. The
beeping tells you:

a) The processor is powered (ATX12V 2x2 is in place).
b) The case speaker is connected.
c) The processor ran some BIOS code.
d) The processor programmed the speaker beeping (two or three
beeps, and a repetitive pattern). The ability to continue the
beep pattern, is supervised by CPU code. So much of the computer
is running, if you heat the beeps. The computer is "running the
beep code" and has not crashed. A completely silent computer
(no beeps) is in serious trouble.

I turned off the LED and removed all the memory. No beeps at all when
I powered up.

Uh oh.

On the Asus M3A, the CPU is AMD, and the memory
controller is on the processor. Your first step, would
be to replace the CPU. The motherboard should be OK.

This will require removing the cooler (without snapping
off a CPU socket plastic tab), lift lever, remove CPU,
put in known working CPU, close lever, apply thermal paste
to top of CPU, clean and reseat CPU cooler, fasten clamp to tabs.
And so on.

Valid CPUs to use, are listed here. This is for an M3A.

http://support.asus.com/Cpusupport/L...m=M3A&p=1&s=24

And I'm assuming there isn't some other component which is
disconnected, not seated properly, bumped, etc.


What's a panel header and where is it? I'm not sure how to tell if the
SPKR is connected to it.

The PANEL header is just below the green "SB_PWR" LED.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/132/m3a.gif


Have I hosed the whole computer here - motherboard, CPU and memory? Or
is the damage limited to (possibly) all of the memory, both old and
new?

--
Rhino

As you're not getting a beep from the speaker, I'd guess CPU.
The memory controller is on the CPU.

The same symptoms would result, if the ATX12V 2x2 is not connected.
That connector is square, and in the upper left of the m3a.gif above.
The m3a.gif is just copied from a PDF version of your Asus motherboard
manual. And this picture, shows another example of what to look for.
2x2 connector.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/12v4pin.jpg

Important to note at this time, is whether you normally hear a
single "beep" when the computer was working. That single beep
is there, to prove the speaker works, at each startup. If they
didn't need to test the speaker, there would never have been
a single beep necessary, for the working state of the computer.
But the beep helps assure us the beep speaker is present and
accounted for. Then, on occasions there are no beeps of any
kind, it's easier to predict a catastrophic hardware failure
(power supply bad, power supply disconnected, CPU bad, half-seated
hardware, corrupted BIOS flash chip, flat CMOS battery, etc).

The PANEL header in the lower right hand corner, should have
wires to it like this. The thing is 2x10 form factor (room for
20 pins, not all pins installed). The SPKR connector is a 1x4
form factor pin header style connector, with wires installed
in the pin 1 and pin 4 positions.

PLED SPKR
| | | |
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
| | | | | |
IDE PWR RST
LED Switch Switch

You could take the tower to a computer store (repair facility),
and see if they have an AMD AM2 from the supported CPU list,
to test with. Or, they could test your CPU, in their motherboard.
That way, you'd be increasing the odds of making a correct diagnosis.
Or, you can take your chances on some Ebay processor, do the
prep yourself, and see what happens.

HTH,
Paul

On 18 Apr, 14:22, Paul wrote:
wrote:
5) Remove all RAM, with all power off. *Never* insert or remove
* * RAM, while the system is powered. On an Asus motherboard,
* * when the green LED is not lit, only then is it safe to
* * change memory. The green LED monitors +5VSB, and when the
* * LED is extinguished, then there is no standby power in the RAM
* * slots.

Uh oh. I didn't know the green LED had to be off. I did not turn it
off (via the power switch on the back or disconnecting the power for
the case) before inserting or removing the memory. That's never been
necessary on previous computers. Or maybe it was and I just got
lucky.

Uh oh.











6) With all RAM removed, switch on. The case speaker connected to
* * SPKR on the panel header, that speaker should start beeping. The
* * beeping tells you:

* * a) The processor is powered (ATX12V 2x2 is in place).
* * b) The case speaker is connected.
* * c) The processor ran some BIOS code.
* * d) The processor programmed the speaker beeping (two or three
* * * *beeps, and a repetitive pattern). The ability to continue the
* * * *beep pattern, is supervised by CPU code. So much of the computer
* * * *is running, if you heat the beeps. The computer is "running the
* * * *beep code" and has not crashed. A completely silent computer
* * * *(no beeps) is in serious trouble.

I turned off the LED and removed all the memory. No beeps at all when
I powered up.

Uh oh.

On the Asus M3A, the CPU is AMD, and the memory
controller is on the processor. Your first step, would
be to replace the CPU. The motherboard should be OK.

This will require removing the cooler (without snapping
off a CPU socket plastic tab), lift lever, remove CPU,
put in known working CPU, close lever, apply thermal paste
to top of CPU, clean and reseat CPU cooler, fasten clamp to tabs.
And so on.

Valid CPUs to use, are listed here. This is for an M3A.

http://support.asus.com/Cpusupport/L...m=M3A&p=1&s=24

So I can choose anything from that list, any of the Athlon/Phenom/
Semprons?

And I'm assuming there isn't some other component which is
disconnected, not seated properly, bumped, etc.

I did touch the video card as I was messing with the memory but it
looks properly seated. I also hooked up the laptop to the desktop
monitor (via its analog port) and it is working fine so I think that
removes any reasonable doubt about the monitor, if not the video
card.


What's a panel header and where is it? I'm not sure how to tell if the
SPKR is connected to it.

The PANEL header is just below the green "SB_PWR" LED.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/132/m3a.gif



Have I hosed the whole computer here - motherboard, CPU and memory? Or
is the damage limited to (possibly) all of the memory, both old and
new?

--
Rhino

As you're not getting a beep from the speaker, I'd guess CPU.
The memory controller is on the CPU.

The same symptoms would result, if the ATX12V 2x2 is not connected.
That connector is square, and in the upper left of the m3a.gif above.
The m3a.gif is just copied from a PDF version of your Asus motherboard
manual. And this picture, shows another example of what to look for.
2x2 connector.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/12v4pin.jpg

I finally found the ATX 12V. I have the same picture in my manual and
just missed it.

Important to note at this time, is whether you normally hear a
single "beep" when the computer was working. That single beep
is there, to prove the speaker works, at each startup. If they
didn't need to test the speaker, there would never have been
a single beep necessary, for the working state of the computer.
But the beep helps assure us the beep speaker is present and
accounted for. Then, on occasions there are no beeps of any
kind, it's easier to predict a catastrophic hardware failure
(power supply bad, power supply disconnected, CPU bad, half-seated
hardware, corrupted BIOS flash chip, flat CMOS battery, etc).

The PANEL header in the lower right hand corner, should have
wires to it like this. The thing is 2x10 form factor (room for
20 pins, not all pins installed). The SPKR connector is a 1x4
form factor pin header style connector, with wires installed
in the pin 1 and pin 4 positions.

* * PLED * * * * SPKR
* * | * | * * * | * * |
* * . . . . . . . . . .
* * . . . . . . . . . .
* * | | * * * | | * | |
* * IDE * * * PWR * RST
* * LED * * Switch *Switch

Thank you! Now I know where the header is ;-)

You could take the tower to a computer store (repair facility),
and see if they have an AMD AM2 from the supported CPU list,
to test with. Or, they could test your CPU, in their motherboard.
That way, you'd be increasing the odds of making a correct diagnosis.
Or, you can take your chances on some Ebay processor, do the
prep yourself, and see what happens.


I'm pretty sure the place where I bought the memory has a repair
service. They seem fairly knowledgeable, at least within their
individual areas of expertise. I'll bring the tower, manual and memory
down there once you've confirmed that I can choose absolutely anything
from that list of CPUs. It seems like such a long list so I just want
to be sure. Then we'll see if they can test my CPU and memory in
something they have. Hopefully, I won't be out to much money for my
ignorance about the green LED....

--
Rhino

wrote:
On 18 Apr, 14:22, Paul wrote:
wrote:
5) Remove all RAM, with all power off. *Never* insert or remove
RAM, while the system is powered. On an Asus motherboard,
when the green LED is not lit, only then is it safe to
change memory. The green LED monitors +5VSB, and when the
LED is extinguished, then there is no standby power in the RAM
slots.
Uh oh. I didn't know the green LED had to be off. I did not turn it
off (via the power switch on the back or disconnecting the power for
the case) before inserting or removing the memory. That's never been
necessary on previous computers. Or maybe it was and I just got
lucky.
Uh oh.











6) With all RAM removed, switch on. The case speaker connected to
SPKR on the panel header, that speaker should start beeping. The
beeping tells you:
a) The processor is powered (ATX12V 2x2 is in place).
b) The case speaker is connected.
c) The processor ran some BIOS code.
d) The processor programmed the speaker beeping (two or three
beeps, and a repetitive pattern). The ability to continue the
beep pattern, is supervised by CPU code. So much of the computer
is running, if you heat the beeps. The computer is "running the
beep code" and has not crashed. A completely silent computer
(no beeps) is in serious trouble.
I turned off the LED and removed all the memory. No beeps at all when
I powered up.
Uh oh.

On the Asus M3A, the CPU is AMD, and the memory
controller is on the processor. Your first step, would
be to replace the CPU. The motherboard should be OK.

This will require removing the cooler (without snapping
off a CPU socket plastic tab), lift lever, remove CPU,
put in known working CPU, close lever, apply thermal paste
to top of CPU, clean and reseat CPU cooler, fasten clamp to tabs.
And so on.

Valid CPUs to use, are listed here. This is for an M3A.

http://support.asus.com/Cpusupport/L...m=M3A&p=1&s=24

So I can choose anything from that list, any of the Athlon/Phenom/
Semprons?
And I'm assuming there isn't some other component which is
disconnected, not seated properly, bumped, etc.

I did touch the video card as I was messing with the memory but it
looks properly seated. I also hooked up the laptop to the desktop
monitor (via its analog port) and it is working fine so I think that
removes any reasonable doubt about the monitor, if not the video
card.

What's a panel header and where is it? I'm not sure how to tell if the
SPKR is connected to it.
The PANEL header is just below the green "SB_PWR" LED.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/132/m3a.gif



Have I hosed the whole computer here - motherboard, CPU and memory? Or
is the damage limited to (possibly) all of the memory, both old and
new?
--
Rhino
As you're not getting a beep from the speaker, I'd guess CPU.
The memory controller is on the CPU.

The same symptoms would result, if the ATX12V 2x2 is not connected.
That connector is square, and in the upper left of the m3a.gif above.
The m3a.gif is just copied from a PDF version of your Asus motherboard
manual. And this picture, shows another example of what to look for.
2x2 connector.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/12v4pin.jpg

I finally found the ATX 12V. I have the same picture in my manual and
just missed it.

Important to note at this time, is whether you normally hear a
single "beep" when the computer was working. That single beep
is there, to prove the speaker works, at each startup. If they
didn't need to test the speaker, there would never have been
a single beep necessary, for the working state of the computer.
But the beep helps assure us the beep speaker is present and
accounted for. Then, on occasions there are no beeps of any
kind, it's easier to predict a catastrophic hardware failure
(power supply bad, power supply disconnected, CPU bad, half-seated
hardware, corrupted BIOS flash chip, flat CMOS battery, etc).

The PANEL header in the lower right hand corner, should have
wires to it like this. The thing is 2x10 form factor (room for
20 pins, not all pins installed). The SPKR connector is a 1x4
form factor pin header style connector, with wires installed
in the pin 1 and pin 4 positions.

PLED SPKR
| | | |
. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . .
| | | | | |
IDE PWR RST
LED Switch Switch

Thank you! Now I know where the header is ;-)

You could take the tower to a computer store (repair facility),
and see if they have an AMD AM2 from the supported CPU list,
to test with. Or, they could test your CPU, in their motherboard.
That way, you'd be increasing the odds of making a correct diagnosis.
Or, you can take your chances on some Ebay processor, do the
prep yourself, and see what happens.


I'm pretty sure the place where I bought the memory has a repair
service. They seem fairly knowledgeable, at least within their
individual areas of expertise. I'll bring the tower, manual and memory
down there once you've confirmed that I can choose absolutely anything
from that list of CPUs. It seems like such a long list so I just want
to be sure. Then we'll see if they can test my CPU and memory in
something they have. Hopefully, I won't be out to much money for my
ignorance about the green LED....

--
Rhino

One problem is, the availability of those processors. Anything
new is AM3 now. I did a quick check, and didn't get a match.
I tried Newegg and NCIX (Canada).

I was hoping eventually, maybe you'd mention the existing
model of processor. So I can narrow down things to take its
place. For example, if your existing processor is 89 watts,
I'd look for something with the same power envelope. As we
know your machine worked with an 89W processor, so another
89W processor should be OK.

Your shop, might not even have an AM2. Or, if the shop is at
all clever, they use a Sempron, say something with a single
core, that is dirt cheap, for testing. And consequently, if
any parts are "left over", the processor they've got might be
rather gutless.

If you no longer have the processor box as a reference,
you could always look for the receipt from the purchase.

*******

In the Phenom section of the CPU list, there are processors
like 9600 and 9650. The first one has a slight bug, while
the ones ending in xx50, are patched. So that cuts out a few
of the model numbers.

Paul

On 18 Apr, 20:46, Paul wrote:
wrote:
On 18 Apr, 14:22, Paul wrote:
wrote:
5) Remove all RAM, with all power off. *Never* insert or remove
* * RAM, while the system is powered. On an Asus motherboard,
* * when the green LED is not lit, only then is it safe to
* * change memory. The green LED monitors +5VSB, and when the
* * LED is extinguished, then there is no standby power in the RAM
* * slots.
Uh oh. I didn't know the green LED had to be off. I did not turn it
off (via the power switch on the back or disconnecting the power for
the case) before inserting or removing the memory. That's never been
necessary on previous computers. Or maybe it was and I just got
lucky.
Uh oh.

6) With all RAM removed, switch on. The case speaker connected to
* * SPKR on the panel header, that speaker should start beeping. The
* * beeping tells you:
* * a) The processor is powered (ATX12V 2x2 is in place).
* * b) The case speaker is connected.
* * c) The processor ran some BIOS code.
* * d) The processor programmed the speaker beeping (two or three
* * * *beeps, and a repetitive pattern). The ability to continue the
* * * *beep pattern, is supervised by CPU code. So much of the computer
* * * *is running, if you heat the beeps. The computer is "running the
* * * *beep code" and has not crashed. A completely silent computer
* * * *(no beeps) is in serious trouble.
I turned off the LED and removed all the memory. No beeps at all when
I powered up.
Uh oh.

On the Asus M3A, the CPU is AMD, and the memory
controller is on the processor. Your first step, would
be to replace the CPU. The motherboard should be OK.

This will require removing the cooler (without snapping
off a CPU socket plastic tab), lift lever, remove CPU,
put in known working CPU, close lever, apply thermal paste
to top of CPU, clean and reseat CPU cooler, fasten clamp to tabs.
And so on.

Valid CPUs to use, are listed here. This is for an M3A.

http://support.asus.com/Cpusupport/L...m=M3A&p=1&s=24

So I can choose anything from that list, any of the Athlon/Phenom/
Semprons?
And I'm assuming there isn't some other component which is
disconnected, not seated properly, bumped, etc.

I did touch the video card as I was messing with the memory but it
looks properly seated. I also hooked up the laptop to the desktop
monitor (via its analog port) and it is working fine so I think that
removes any reasonable doubt about the monitor, if not the video
card.

What's a panel header and where is it? I'm not sure how to tell if the
SPKR is connected to it.
The PANEL header is just below the green "SB_PWR" LED.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/132/m3a.gif

Have I hosed the whole computer here - motherboard, CPU and memory? Or
is the damage limited to (possibly) all of the memory, both old and
new?
--
Rhino
As you're not getting a beep from the speaker, I'd guess CPU.
The memory controller is on the CPU.

The same symptoms would result, if the ATX12V 2x2 is not connected.
That connector is square, and in the upper left of the m3a.gif above.
The m3a.gif is just copied from a PDF version of your Asus motherboard
manual. And this picture, shows another example of what to look for.
2x2 connector.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/12v4pin.jpg

I finally found the ATX 12V. I have the same picture in my manual and
just missed it.

Important to note at this time, is whether you normally hear a
single "beep" when the computer was working. That single beep
is there, to prove the speaker works, at each startup. If they
didn't need to test the speaker, there would never have been
a single beep necessary, for the working state of the computer.
But the beep helps assure us the beep speaker is present and
accounted for. Then, on occasions there are no beeps of any
kind, it's easier to predict a catastrophic hardware failure
(power supply bad, power supply disconnected, CPU bad, half-seated
hardware, corrupted BIOS flash chip, flat CMOS battery, etc).

The PANEL header in the lower right hand corner, should have
wires to it like this. The thing is 2x10 form factor (room for
20 pins, not all pins installed). The SPKR connector is a 1x4
form factor pin header style connector, with wires installed
in the pin 1 and pin 4 positions.

* * PLED * * * * SPKR
* * | * | * * * | * * |
* * . . . . . . . . . .
* * . . . . . . . . . .
* * | | * * * | | * | |
* * IDE * * * PWR * RST
* * LED * * Switch *Switch

Thank you! Now I know where the header is ;-)

You could take the tower to a computer store (repair facility),
and see if they have an AMD AM2 from the supported CPU list,
to test with. Or, they could test your CPU, in their motherboard.
That way, you'd be increasing the odds of making a correct diagnosis.
Or, you can take your chances on some Ebay processor, do the
prep yourself, and see what happens.

I'm pretty sure the place where I bought the memory has a repair
service. They seem fairly knowledgeable, at least within their
individual areas of expertise. I'll bring the tower, manual and memory
down there once you've confirmed that I can choose absolutely anything
from that list of CPUs. It seems like such a long list so I just want
to be sure. Then we'll see if they can test my CPU and memory in
something they have. Hopefully, I won't be out to much money for my
ignorance about the green LED....

--
Rhino

One problem is, the availability of those processors. Anything
new is AM3 now. I did a quick check, and didn't get a match.
I tried Newegg and NCIX (Canada).

I was hoping eventually, maybe you'd mention the existing
model of processor. So I can narrow down things to take its
place. For example, if your existing processor is 89 watts,
I'd look for something with the same power envelope. As we
know your machine worked with an 89W processor, so another
89W processor should be OK.

Your shop, might not even have an AM2. Or, if the shop is at
all clever, they use a Sempron, say something with a single
core, that is dirt cheap, for testing. And consequently, if
any parts are "left over", the processor they've got might be
rather gutless.

If you no longer have the processor box as a reference,
you could always look for the receipt from the purchase.

*******

In the Phenom section of the CPU list, there are processors
like 9600 and 9650. The first one has a slight bug, while
the ones ending in xx50, are patched. So that cuts out a few
of the model numbers.

I dug up the receipts for the desktop. The processor receipt says "1
CPUA001368 AMD Phenom X4 9350E (65W) Quad Core Socket AM2+, 2.0 GHz,
512KB Cache, 1800 MHz HT, 65nm (HD93500DGHBOX)". You probably just
needed the 9350E but I've given you the whole thing, just in case you
need it.

On 19 Apr, 17:15, wrote:
On 18 Apr, 20:46, Paul wrote:







wrote:
On 18 Apr, 14:22, Paul wrote:
wrote:
5) Remove all RAM, with all power off. *Never* insert or remove
* * RAM, while the system is powered. On an Asus motherboard,
* * when the green LED is not lit, only then is it safe to
* * change memory. The green LED monitors +5VSB, and when the
* * LED is extinguished, then there is no standby power in the RAM
* * slots.
Uh oh. I didn't know the green LED had to be off. I did not turn it
off (via the power switch on the back or disconnecting the power for
the case) before inserting or removing the memory. That's never been
necessary on previous computers. Or maybe it was and I just got
lucky.
Uh oh.

6) With all RAM removed, switch on. The case speaker connected to
* * SPKR on the panel header, that speaker should start beeping. The
* * beeping tells you:
* * a) The processor is powered (ATX12V 2x2 is in place).
* * b) The case speaker is connected.
* * c) The processor ran some BIOS code.
* * d) The processor programmed the speaker beeping (two or three
* * * *beeps, and a repetitive pattern). The ability to continue the
* * * *beep pattern, is supervised by CPU code. So much of the computer
* * * *is running, if you heat the beeps. The computer is "running the
* * * *beep code" and has not crashed. A completely silent computer
* * * *(no beeps) is in serious trouble.
I turned off the LED and removed all the memory. No beeps at all when
I powered up.
Uh oh.

On the Asus M3A, the CPU is AMD, and the memory
controller is on the processor. Your first step, would
be to replace the CPU. The motherboard should be OK.

This will require removing the cooler (without snapping
off a CPU socket plastic tab), lift lever, remove CPU,
put in known working CPU, close lever, apply thermal paste
to top of CPU, clean and reseat CPU cooler, fasten clamp to tabs.
And so on.

Valid CPUs to use, are listed here. This is for an M3A.

http://support.asus.com/Cpusupport/L...m=M3A&p=1&s=24

So I can choose anything from that list, any of the Athlon/Phenom/
Semprons?
And I'm assuming there isn't some other component which is
disconnected, not seated properly, bumped, etc.

I did touch the video card as I was messing with the memory but it
looks properly seated. I also hooked up the laptop to the desktop
monitor (via its analog port) and it is working fine so I think that
removes any reasonable doubt about the monitor, if not the video
card.

What's a panel header and where is it? I'm not sure how to tell if the
SPKR is connected to it.
The PANEL header is just below the green "SB_PWR" LED.

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/132/m3a.gif

Have I hosed the whole computer here - motherboard, CPU and memory? Or
is the damage limited to (possibly) all of the memory, both old and
new?
--
Rhino
As you're not getting a beep from the speaker, I'd guess CPU.
The memory controller is on the CPU.

The same symptoms would result, if the ATX12V 2x2 is not connected.
That connector is square, and in the upper left of the m3a.gif above..
The m3a.gif is just copied from a PDF version of your Asus motherboard
manual. And this picture, shows another example of what to look for.
2x2 connector.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/12v4pin.jpg

I finally found the ATX 12V. I have the same picture in my manual and
just missed it.

Important to note at this time, is whether you normally hear a
single "beep" when the computer was working. That single beep
is there, to prove the speaker works, at each startup. If they
didn't need to test the speaker, there would never have been
a single beep necessary, for the working state of the computer.
But the beep helps assure us the beep speaker is present and
accounted for. Then, on occasions there are no beeps of any
kind, it's easier to predict a catastrophic hardware failure
(power supply bad, power supply disconnected, CPU bad, half-seated
hardware, corrupted BIOS flash chip, flat CMOS battery, etc).

The PANEL header in the lower right hand corner, should have
wires to it like this. The thing is 2x10 form factor (room for
20 pins, not all pins installed). The SPKR connector is a 1x4
form factor pin header style connector, with wires installed
in the pin 1 and pin 4 positions.

* * PLED * * * * SPKR
* * | * | * * * | * * |
* * . . . . . . . . . .
* * . . . . . . . . . .
* * | | * * * | | * | |
* * IDE * * * PWR * RST
* * LED * * Switch *Switch

Thank you! Now I know where the header is ;-)

You could take the tower to a computer store (repair facility),
and see if they have an AMD AM2 from the supported CPU list,
to test with. Or, they could test your CPU, in their motherboard.
That way, you'd be increasing the odds of making a correct diagnosis..
Or, you can take your chances on some Ebay processor, do the
prep yourself, and see what happens.

I'm pretty sure the place where I bought the memory has a repair
service. They seem fairly knowledgeable, at least within their
individual areas of expertise. I'll bring the tower, manual and memory
down there once you've confirmed that I can choose absolutely anything
from that list of CPUs. It seems like such a long list so I just want
to be sure. Then we'll see if they can test my CPU and memory in
something they have. Hopefully, I won't be out to much money for my
ignorance about the green LED....

--
Rhino

One problem is, the availability of those processors. Anything
new is AM3 now. I did a quick check, and didn't get a match.
I tried Newegg and NCIX (Canada).

I was hoping eventually, maybe you'd mention the existing
model of processor. So I can narrow down things to take its
place. For example, if your existing processor is 89 watts,
I'd look for something with the same power envelope. As we
know your machine worked with an 89W processor, so another
89W processor should be OK.

Your shop, might not even have an AM2. Or, if the shop is at
all clever, they use a Sempron, say something with a single
core, that is dirt cheap, for testing. And consequently, if
any parts are "left over", the processor they've got might be
rather gutless.

If you no longer have the processor box as a reference,
you could always look for the receipt from the purchase.

*******

In the Phenom section of the CPU list, there are processors
like 9600 and 9650. The first one has a slight bug, while
the ones ending in xx50, are patched. So that cuts out a few
of the model numbers.

I dug up the receipts for the desktop. The processor receipt says "1
CPUA001368 AMD Phenom X4 9350E (65W) Quad Core Socket AM2+, 2.0 GHz,
512KB Cache, 1800 MHz HT, 65nm (HD93500DGHBOX)". You probably just
needed the 9350E but I've given you the whole thing, just in case you
need it.

I'm just back from the store where I bought the memory and got some
news that was mostly favourable, although also a bit confusing. I
brought only the memory and manual with me and they had a machine for
testing the RAM. He was confident that the original two sticks were
fine. Initially, he said the new sticks were not working but then he
put each of the new sticks in this test machine individually and said
that they worked individually, which suggests that they are okay. He
recommended that I put each stick by itself in each of my 4 memory
slots to see if that stick behaved identically in each slot. That
would help confirm that the memory is okay. This testing was free.

I asked about testing the CPU and he said they could do that but not
for free; they would do a system diagnostic on all the major
components, including the power supply, motherboard, CPU, etc. for $40
and it would take two or three days.

He also gave me a little dothingey that he is sure is working to run
between the speaker and the head just to be sure that isn't the
problem. Sorry, I don't know what this is properly called. I expect
I'll spend the next few hours swapping out the memory sticks and the
speaker thingy to see what happens. I'll report back here when I have
those results to see if you can telll me what my tests mean. Then you
can advise me on what my next move should be.

By the way, he says they can't get the Phenom 9350E any more so I'll
obviously have to choose something else if the CPU is fried.