Building budget gaming system,,please need opinions

I have experience building systems in the past, I have 2 build with P2-BB
MB's but Im upgrading to a faster system. Looking at using the new Athlon
CPU, and would like to get an ASUS MB based on my very good experiences with
them,,,, any tips on what MB to get??? Im looking at something that I will
be able to upgrade in the future when the need arises and be able to play
the latest high performance games.....I think PCI express slots are the way
of the future so should I make this a requirement on my search??

thanks

A8n-E or -SLI with an AMD64 3200 venice, pci-e 6600gt a gig of cheap but
decent pc3200 and a decent sized SATA hdd. Top it off with a decent case and
a 450W+ PSU. Everything else is more or less inconsequential.

This i believe will fit the category of budget, will probably overclock to
3800 speeds, and will play the most recent games quite well (BF2 at 1024*768
with 4x AA still getting high frame rates). As for upgradability, AMD X2
processors will fit this board so 2 or 3 years later thats a bios upgarde
and a drop in job. Video card is a pci-e slot, so that shouldn;t be a future
issue, and if you go SLI that leaves the door open for that option (although
from what i've read it doesn't seem that worth it.)

Bushy

"Amolao" wrote in message
...
I have experience building systems in the past, I have 2 build with P2-BB
MB's but Im upgrading to a faster system. Looking at using the new Athlon
CPU, and would like to get an ASUS MB based on my very good experiences
with them,,,, any tips on what MB to get??? Im looking at something that I
will be able to upgrade in the future when the need arises and be able to
play the latest high performance games.....I think PCI express slots are
the way of the future so should I make this a requirement on my search??

thanks

In article , "Amolao"
wrote:

I have experience building systems in the past, I have 2 build with P2-BB
MB's but Im upgrading to a faster system. Looking at using the new Athlon
CPU, and would like to get an ASUS MB based on my very good experiences with
them,,,, any tips on what MB to get??? Im looking at something that I will
be able to upgrade in the future when the need arises and be able to play
the latest high performance games.....I think PCI express slots are the way
of the future so should I make this a requirement on my search??

thanks

It might help if you name a budget amount. If the budget is small
enough, maybe all you could get is a S462 athlonXP system. Next
step up, would be the equally obsolete S754 platform, with which
you could certainly game, but wouldn't have a lot of good upgrade
options. The next level is S939, which gives you dual channel
memory, and perhaps the option of going with a dual core processor.
As long as dual core processors remain expensive, it might be
outside your (future) price range. Until more games fully use dual
core processors, they are a waste of money.

S462 System (AGP slot)
A7N8X-X $60.50
AthlonXP-M 2500+ (O.C. to 3200+) $85.00
Kingston ValueRAM 2x512MB CAS3 2x$47.00
Total ~239 (just to compare with the A64s)

S754 System
K8N4-E Deluxe $104.00 (cheapest S754 PCI express)
3200+ newcastle 2.2G/512KB $193.00 (overclock a bit,
rev.CG has 2T cmd rate)
Kingston ValueRAM 2x512MB CAS3 2x$47.00 (in slots 1 and 3)
Total ~391

S939 System
A8N-E Nforce4 Ultra (non-SLI) $120.00 (dual core X2 ready, PCI-E)
3200+ Venice 2.0G/512KB $190.00
Kingston ValueRAM 2x512MB CAS3 2x$47.00 (dual channel mode)
Total ~404

(newegg prices)

Something you have to realize about high performance gaming,
is many games are CPU limited, even with the most powerful
CPUs. If the games were re-written, to take advantage of
dual core processors, this might change a little bit. Video
cards are more powerful than they need to be, for games like
this. If a game is CPU limited, a 6600GT might do fine at
1024x768, a 7800 might do fine at 1600x1200 and SLI might
allow even higher resolutions. If you don't have a large
monitor, the higher end video configurations might not do
much for you, even with a high end processor (4000+, FX-57
etc.).

To see this for yourself, have a look at the two charts here.
They used a 4000+ processor, and in the 1024x768 resolution
chart, you can see a plain Geforce 6800 with 256MB of memory,
is enough card for the job. Higher performance cards would
allow more eye candy (AA/AF or more detail settings), but in
a FPS, you don't have time to look at the scenery. At 1200x1024
resolution, something a bit better than a 6600GT could be
used. (The charts on the next page, show the impact of turning
on more eye candy.) So, take the expected gaming resolution
into account, when buying the video card.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...charts-05.html

This web page has a convenient chart of clock rates for video
cards. Look for the PEx16 entries, to find the PCI Express cards.
(They still haven't updated the table with the latest cards.
No 7800GT or 7800GTX, and some of the 6xxx PCI-E cards are missing.)

http://www.benchmark.pl/artykuly/zes...ydajnosci.html

There are some comparisons here, of various levels of AA/AF
in Far Cry. Just so you can see whether it is worth spending
extra money to enable AA/AF.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52647

HTH,
Paul

Thank you all for the helpful responses, I like to stay around 500-600
dollar mark....this just for case/PS,memory,cpu,MB,video card. Not too
shabby , Uh!?



"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Amolao"
wrote:

I have experience building systems in the past, I have 2 build with P2-BB
MB's but Im upgrading to a faster system. Looking at using the new Athlon
CPU, and would like to get an ASUS MB based on my very good experiences
with
them,,,, any tips on what MB to get??? Im looking at something that I
will
be able to upgrade in the future when the need arises and be able to play
the latest high performance games.....I think PCI express slots are the
way
of the future so should I make this a requirement on my search??

thanks

It might help if you name a budget amount. If the budget is small
enough, maybe all you could get is a S462 athlonXP system. Next
step up, would be the equally obsolete S754 platform, with which
you could certainly game, but wouldn't have a lot of good upgrade
options. The next level is S939, which gives you dual channel
memory, and perhaps the option of going with a dual core processor.
As long as dual core processors remain expensive, it might be
outside your (future) price range. Until more games fully use dual
core processors, they are a waste of money.

S462 System (AGP slot)
A7N8X-X $60.50
AthlonXP-M 2500+ (O.C. to 3200+) $85.00
Kingston ValueRAM 2x512MB CAS3 2x$47.00
Total ~239 (just to compare with the A64s)

S754 System
K8N4-E Deluxe $104.00 (cheapest S754 PCI express)
3200+ newcastle 2.2G/512KB $193.00 (overclock a bit,
rev.CG has 2T cmd rate)
Kingston ValueRAM 2x512MB CAS3 2x$47.00 (in slots 1 and 3)
Total ~391

S939 System
A8N-E Nforce4 Ultra (non-SLI) $120.00 (dual core X2 ready, PCI-E)
3200+ Venice 2.0G/512KB $190.00
Kingston ValueRAM 2x512MB CAS3 2x$47.00 (dual channel mode)
Total ~404

(newegg prices)

Something you have to realize about high performance gaming,
is many games are CPU limited, even with the most powerful
CPUs. If the games were re-written, to take advantage of
dual core processors, this might change a little bit. Video
cards are more powerful than they need to be, for games like
this. If a game is CPU limited, a 6600GT might do fine at
1024x768, a 7800 might do fine at 1600x1200 and SLI might
allow even higher resolutions. If you don't have a large
monitor, the higher end video configurations might not do
much for you, even with a high end processor (4000+, FX-57
etc.).

To see this for yourself, have a look at the two charts here.
They used a 4000+ processor, and in the 1024x768 resolution
chart, you can see a plain Geforce 6800 with 256MB of memory,
is enough card for the job. Higher performance cards would
allow more eye candy (AA/AF or more detail settings), but in
a FPS, you don't have time to look at the scenery. At 1200x1024
resolution, something a bit better than a 6600GT could be
used. (The charts on the next page, show the impact of turning
on more eye candy.) So, take the expected gaming resolution
into account, when buying the video card.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...charts-05.html

This web page has a convenient chart of clock rates for video
cards. Look for the PEx16 entries, to find the PCI Express cards.
(They still haven't updated the table with the latest cards.
No 7800GT or 7800GTX, and some of the 6xxx PCI-E cards are missing.)

http://www.benchmark.pl/artykuly/zes...ydajnosci.html

There are some comparisons here, of various levels of AA/AF
in Far Cry. Just so you can see whether it is worth spending
extra money to enable AA/AF.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=52647

HTH,
Paul

I built something like bushy suggests this week with the same goals.

XP SP2 ~$300 new (blows your budget, eh?) or lower if OEMed.
AMD 3000+ ~$150
Chaintech 6600 GT ~ $160 (might go w/lower model for your budget)
A8n-SLI Premium $165
SATA II 80GB drive $50
Samsung DVD burner $50
1GB Kingson Memory $105. Might go 512MB for now on your budget.
Case & Antec 450W PSU $100 Might go cheaper on your budget.
Floppy drive $10
Mouse/Keyboard $30 (Actually, using my old good ones and the $30 cheapo
goes w/the old computer.)

Later on, I can buy the 4000+ multi core which is now $1001 -- pick it
up when it's about $150 or so. I can also upgrade to dual 7800's or
something like that a few years down the road.

a8n-sli-p is a great board to grow into.

Did the same thing with my P3V4X which lasted w/upgrades for 6 years.

In article , "Amolao"
wrote:

Thank you all for the helpful responses, I like to stay around 500-600
dollar mark....this just for case/PS,memory,cpu,MB,video card. Not too
shabby , Uh!?


There are some comments on this page (which lists the various type
of Athlon64 processors), as to how much of a difference
S462/S754/S939 makes. S754 is maybe 25%, S939 adds another 5% more.
Whether 512KB or 1MB cache makes a difference (accounted for in
P.R. rating).

http://www.c627627.com/AMD/Athlon64/

So, you've got $200 left for case/PSU/video card ?

Maybe $150 for a 6600GT PCI-E card, with careful shopping.
Newegg has some refurbs for a little less, and as long
as the card has both a VGA and a DVI connector on it, it
won't matter if any adapter cables are missing. You can get
Nvidia drivers off the Internet.

Leaving $50 for PSU and case. As I have no pride, any old
recycled beige colored steel box can hold my stuff -
try to find a used case somewhere. In my city, there are
a couple places that sell used computers, and maybe you can
get a case cheap that way. Make sure it has all the screws
and standoffs. I recycled one of my old cases, did some
cooling mods, and ended up with a very nice (but hard to get
into :-( ) case.

The reason for going cheap on the case, is many new cases
ship with a PSU in them, but maybe the PSU is not all that
great. No sense having an ultra-cheap bundled PSU blow
up your new stuff. I would rather spend the remaining
$50 on a good PSU, than spend the $50 on a case/PSU bundle,
where neither the case nor the PSU is that wonderful.

For power estimates, use this site http://takaman.jp/D/?english
Substitute real measured power for the video card. A 6600GT
uses 4 amps from +12V, and the current comes from the ATX
main power connector. (See small table near bottom of page.)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...00gt-oc_3.html

Takaman lists 3.3V@2A, 5V@7A, amps (before adding a
video card). With video card, amps, with 7.4 amps of
that for the processor. On a split supply (12V1/12V2 type),
that is 7.4 on 12V2 (the processor-only output) and 11.2 amps
on 12V1 (the motherboard/disk drives output). Their disk drive
power numbers are peak, meaning they are overestimating the
+12V current by a couple amps.

While this supply invests most of its energy in 12V rails, it
meets the above basic system requirement with ease, and the company
name is good. It is a 12V1/12V2 type, with no -5V output. The
20 pin ATX power connector comes with a 4 pin attachable piece,
that makes a 24 pin ATX power connector when needed. The only
parameter I don't like on this supply, is the holdup time of
12 milliseconds. Normally this is around 17 or 18 milliseconds
or so (could be important for surviving switchover of a UPS,
or taking power hits from your utility). Whether this is a
difference in the way they are speccing compared to other
products, I don't know.

Fortron Source AX450-PN 3.3@30A 5V@28A 12V1@18A 12V2@18A no -5V $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104954

ENERMAX EG425P-VE SFMA 2.0 420W 3.3V@30A 5V@30A 12V1@18A 12V2@18A $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103459

ENERMAX Noisetaker EG325P-VE SFMA ATX12V 320W Power Supply - Retail
+3.3V@24A, +5V@24A, +12V1@16A, +12V2@16A, $39

FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX400-PN ATX12V 400W Power Supply Retail
+3.3V@22A, +5V@21A, +12V1@18A, +12V2@16A, +5VSB@2A $40

HTH,
Paul

thanks for the info.....
I will start ordering parts tomorrow....


"Paul" wrote in message
...
In article , "Amolao"
wrote:

Thank you all for the helpful responses, I like to stay around 500-600
dollar mark....this just for case/PS,memory,cpu,MB,video card. Not too
shabby , Uh!?


There are some comments on this page (which lists the various type
of Athlon64 processors), as to how much of a difference
S462/S754/S939 makes. S754 is maybe 25%, S939 adds another 5% more.
Whether 512KB or 1MB cache makes a difference (accounted for in
P.R. rating).

http://www.c627627.com/AMD/Athlon64/

So, you've got $200 left for case/PSU/video card ?

Maybe $150 for a 6600GT PCI-E card, with careful shopping.
Newegg has some refurbs for a little less, and as long
as the card has both a VGA and a DVI connector on it, it
won't matter if any adapter cables are missing. You can get
Nvidia drivers off the Internet.

Leaving $50 for PSU and case. As I have no pride, any old
recycled beige colored steel box can hold my stuff -
try to find a used case somewhere. In my city, there are
a couple places that sell used computers, and maybe you can
get a case cheap that way. Make sure it has all the screws
and standoffs. I recycled one of my old cases, did some
cooling mods, and ended up with a very nice (but hard to get
into :-( ) case.

The reason for going cheap on the case, is many new cases
ship with a PSU in them, but maybe the PSU is not all that
great. No sense having an ultra-cheap bundled PSU blow
up your new stuff. I would rather spend the remaining
$50 on a good PSU, than spend the $50 on a case/PSU bundle,
where neither the case nor the PSU is that wonderful.

For power estimates, use this site http://takaman.jp/D/?english
Substitute real measured power for the video card. A 6600GT
uses 4 amps from +12V, and the current comes from the ATX
main power connector. (See small table near bottom of page.)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/vid...00gt-oc_3.html

Takaman lists 3.3V@2A, 5V@7A, amps (before adding a
video card). With video card, amps, with 7.4 amps of
that for the processor. On a split supply (12V1/12V2 type),
that is 7.4 on 12V2 (the processor-only output) and 11.2 amps
on 12V1 (the motherboard/disk drives output). Their disk drive
power numbers are peak, meaning they are overestimating the
+12V current by a couple amps.

While this supply invests most of its energy in 12V rails, it
meets the above basic system requirement with ease, and the company
name is good. It is a 12V1/12V2 type, with no -5V output. The
20 pin ATX power connector comes with a 4 pin attachable piece,
that makes a 24 pin ATX power connector when needed. The only
parameter I don't like on this supply, is the holdup time of
12 milliseconds. Normally this is around 17 or 18 milliseconds
or so (could be important for surviving switchover of a UPS,
or taking power hits from your utility). Whether this is a
difference in the way they are speccing compared to other
products, I don't know.

Fortron Source AX450-PN 3.3@30A 5V@28A 12V1@18A 12V2@18A no -5V $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104954

ENERMAX EG425P-VE SFMA 2.0 420W 3.3V@30A 5V@30A 12V1@18A 12V2@18A $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103459

ENERMAX Noisetaker EG325P-VE SFMA ATX12V 320W Power Supply - Retail
+3.3V@24A, +5V@24A, +12V1@16A, +12V2@16A, $39

FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX400-PN ATX12V 400W Power Supply Retail
+3.3V@22A, +5V@21A, +12V1@18A, +12V2@16A, +5VSB@2A $40

HTH,
Paul