Differences between Thunderbird, Palomino, Barton ?

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:07:41 +0200, liaM wrote:

What is the FSB for a 2500 OPN ?

Whatever you set it to. The default is 166Mhz.

Or are there various FSBs for it (like for the 2600).

You can set it to whatever your board supports. There's only one default
that I'm aware of.

Also.. what is the max FSB for a 1800+ unit ???

Depends on MB. 220MHz?

And, again.. what's different between a Thubderbird, Palomino, Barton ??

Tbird- 1st socket A Athlon cpu. 1400=1400MHz 1600MHz*

Palomino- 1st XP model, added SSE instructions, improved core. Started PR
ratings. 2100+=1733MHz 1800MHz*

Tbred A core- AMD's first attempt to get more speed with new core design.
It didn't work too well. 2200+=1800MHz 1900MHz*

Tbred B core- 2nd attempt. Worked great (added more core layers).
2800+=2250 MHZ 2400MHz*

Barton- Basically a Tbred B core with 512K L2 cache. 3200+=2200MHz 2400MHz*

*= approx. top speed. Without is top default speed of model as of this
time.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.html

All this is very interesting.. Before posting here, I went to the
AMD site thinking there'd be a straightforward explanation of the
different models. No such luck (except for reading 100+ page PDF
manuals..). Check out "lost"'s reply to my post. It's
really interesting how AMD shot itself in the foot with PR ratings,
increasing cache size on the Barton just to play catch-up..


Thanks,
liaM



I doubt they were playing catch up and instead just trying to increase
performance.. Sometimes it's about building a better product rather than a
competition/selling product..
It's not difficult to understand really, you buy a motherboard and put the
processor in the motherboard and it works..
The chip will request the correct speed/voltage/multiplier so you dont
really need to know it.. in that respect there is nothing confusing about it





"E_\\_¼__½__¾__F" a écrit :

1500+ - 2400+ = 266fsb
2500+ - 2800+ = 333fsb altho the 2600+ was put out in both 266 and
333
3000+ - 3400+ = both 333 and 400fsb availability.

Not too sure about differences in detail. Palomino was an update from
the thunderbird/morgan cores, Tbred A was an update from the Palo.
Tbred B from A... Barton from Tbred etc. The main diff between the
barton and tbreds and below is the cache. tbreds and below have 384k
total cache and bartons have 512k total. Durons I think had 256k
total (128k L1 and 128k L2, someone correct me if I'm wrong) hope
this helps some...

mcheu wrote:
The 2600+ doesn't have a varying FSB. From what I understand, there
are two versions of it that are sold as XP2600+. An earlier 133/266
FSB version (Palomino), and a later production version which is a
166/333 part (Barton).

Thoroughbred. There are no Barton 2600+

What's the max FSB for an 1800+ unit? Can't answer that. The
standard FSB for it is 133, with the memory going at 266 (as it's

Er... 133MHz DDR, 266 somethings. (Million data transfers per second) The
memory is seperate.

DDR). If you plan on overclocking, you're going into unknown
territory, as the proc isn't meant to go at that speed, and your
personal results may vary from chip to chip.

Indeed.

(These are incomplete. If you want full details, go to www.amd.com
and read the technical papers).

Thunderbird - This was a revision to the original K7 Athlon, which
was designed to be equivalent to a Intel P2 or P3. MMX/3DNow
instructions. One of the big deal improvements was a core shrink,
which allowed lower power consumption, and higher speeds.

AthlonXP/Palomino - AthlonXP chips 1800+ to 2500+ are for sure
Palominos. Improved cache, better power consumption, and

Nah... Palaminos never went that high.

incorporation of the Intel SSE instructions (called 3DNow Enhanced by
AMD). They also started using the PR rating at this point. Also,
FSB was ramped up to 133, with memory going at 266, as AMD had
standardized on DDR memory.

You're missing Thoroughbred. There was an A and a B, change in fab
technology as the B's clock higher.

AthlonXP/Barton - The newer XP chips. Smaller core, faster speeds,
and improved cache. Also, a higher FSB -- 166, with memory going at
333. Don't really know much more about the Bartons.

Bigger cache, FSB of 166 and 200MHz DDR.

The only real confusion point is the XP2600+, which early in
production was a Palomino (the 133MHz FSB version) and the more recent
ones are Barton core (166/333). The only way to tell which version

I think all 2600+ are Thoroughbreds.

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

Ed wrote:
The Barton tech doc clearly shows a 2600+ though.

Weird - ever seen one for sale?

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

Ed wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:07:05 +0100, "Ben Pope" wrote:

Weird - ever seen one for sale?

No, not here in the US anyway, you?
Ed

Nah

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:43:59 GMT, "E_\\_¼__½__¾__F"
wrote::

Not entirely true... I have the 2600+/266 CPU which is a Thoroughbred
B Core. To my knowledge, there were no palomino cores made above the
2100+.


Sorry. I basically lumped the TBreds in with the Palominos. No
particular reason, I just completely forgot about them.

As to your other comment about there being no AthlonXP2600+ Bartons, I
don't know for sure. I based it on information off the AMD site, and
on motherboard manuals for "supported CPUs". I suppose it's possible
that it's one of those things where the CPU's listed, but was never
produced.

In my defence, I did say that I'm not an AMD expert :-)


----------------------------------------
Thanks,

MCheu

Ed wrote:
Maybe it's a typo? :0

It's probably something they never got round to deciding to produce. It
probably happens all the time. The latest electrical spec doc I've seen is
dated January (rev 7?), hence the newer Bartons aren't in it.

Did you notice the 2500, 2600 and 2800+ (333fsb) in the Barton tech doc
all have the same max thermal power specs? (68.3W max)?

Yes.

Doesn't that seem just a little bit strange to you?

Yes.

If underclock my 2800+ Barton to a 2500+ I would think it would run
cooler at full load not the same, seems only logical doesn't it?

I would suspect that power consumption is linearly proportional to clock
rate - thats assuming that you increase the FSB and leave the multiplier
alone. But what do I know :-)

Ben
--
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...

Did you notice the 2500, 2600 and 2800+ (333fsb) in the Barton tech doc
all have the same max thermal power specs? (68.3W max)?
Doesn't that seem just a little bit strange to you?

If underclock my 2800+ Barton to a 2500+ I would think it would run
cooler at full load not the same, seems only logical doesn't it?

Ed

I bet there are Bartons spec'd low, middle and high power vs. speed,
but that power dissipation of the package stays optimal at 68.3 Watts.
Therefore, they are spec'd differently, but are max'd the same.


liaM

I doubt they were playing catch up and instead just trying to increase
performance.. Sometimes it's about building a better product rather than a
competition/selling product..
It's not difficult to understand really, you buy a motherboard and put the
processor in the motherboard and it works..
The chip will request the correct speed/voltage/multiplier so you dont
really need to know it.. in that respect there is nothing confusing about it

Are motherboards autodetecting & setting the FSB speed by instruction from the
CPU now?

"mcheu" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:07:41 +0200, liaM wrote::

What is the FSB for a 2500 OPN ?
Or are there various FSBs for it (like for the 2600).

Also.. what is the max FSB for a 1800+ unit ???
And, again.. what's different between a Thubderbird, Palomino, Barton ??

thanks
liaM





The 2600+ doesn't have a varying FSB. From what I understand, there
are two versions of it that are sold as XP2600+. An earlier 133/266
FSB version (Palomino), and a later production version which is a
166/333 part (Barton).

From www.newegg.com

AMD ATHLON XP 2600 /333 FSB PROCESSOR CPU- OEM - US $94.00
Specifications:
CPU: 2.08 GHz
Type: XP 2600 Thoroughbred
Cache: 256K
BUS: 333MHz
Socket A
OEM (Processor Only)

AMD ATHLON XP 2600+ Barton 333MHz FSB PROCESSOR CPU- OEM US $98.00
Specifications:
CPU: 1.9 GHz
Type: XP 2600 Barton Core
Cache: 512K L2
BUS: 333MHz
Socket A
OEM (Processor Only)

Both XP 2600+ each with a different CPU: GHz and Cache sizes.





What's the max FSB for an 1800+ unit? Can't answer that. The
standard FSB for it is 133, with the memory going at 266 (as it's
DDR). If you plan on overclocking, you're going into unknown
territory, as the proc isn't meant to go at that speed, and your
personal results may vary from chip to chip.

(These are incomplete. If you want full details, go to www.amd.com
and read the technical papers).

Thunderbird - This was a revision to the original K7 Athlon, which
was designed to be equivalent to a Intel P2 or P3. MMX/3DNow
instructions. One of the big deal improvements was a core shrink,
which allowed lower power consumption, and higher speeds.

AthlonXP/Palomino - AthlonXP chips 1800+ to 2500+ are for sure
Palominos. Improved cache, better power consumption, and
incorporation of the Intel SSE instructions (called 3DNow Enhanced by
AMD). They also started using the PR rating at this point. Also,
FSB was ramped up to 133, with memory going at 266, as AMD had
standardized on DDR memory.

AthlonXP/Barton - The newer XP chips. Smaller core, faster speeds,
and improved cache. Also, a higher FSB -- 166, with memory going at
333. Don't really know much more about the Bartons.

The only real confusion point is the XP2600+, which early in
production was a Palomino (the 133MHz FSB version) and the more recent
ones are Barton core (166/333). The only way to tell which version
you have is to look at the chip (and there, you'd actually have to
know what to look for). The retail packaging is identical, so the
casual buyer won't be able to tell at a glance. The reason why it's
important to know which version is that some motherboards which claim
to support the 2600+ only support the Palomino (133/266) version, and
might not work with the Barton one.

The PR being a performance rating vs how the chip performed compared
to an original K7 Athlon (or Pentium 2/3). The + is just marketspeak
for "for some stuff, it might perform better than that".

Again, I'm certain that I've left out a lot of stuff, as I'm not an
expert on AMD CPUs. If you really want to know all the differences,
read the white papers on AMD's site - www.amd.com. If you just want
more detail, read the articles on hardware sites like tomshardware
(www.tomshardware.com)


----------------------------------------
Thanks,

MCheu