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#1
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possible NV40 specs plus NV50 tidbits
while surfing Beyond3D and Rage3D forums, I found:
NV40 --- 1) 600Mhz core on IBM's 0.13u technology, 48GB/s memory bandwidth with 256-bit GDDR2 2) 8x2 ( possibly 16x0 or 16x1 mode, although I'd find that rather stupid personally due to the focus on AA ). 3) FP32/FP16/FX16, this means PS1.4. is done in FX16 100% legally, while it would seem logical for PS2.0. partial precision to be done in FP16 unless MS decides to expose the HW better in an upcoming DX9 revision. 4) ( unsure ) HUGE die, NVIDIA is most likely artificially increasing die size to make cooling more efficient. 5) Slightly beyond PS3.0. / VS3.0. specificiations ( not anywhere as much as PS2.0.+ and VS2.0.+ were compared to the PS/VS2.0. standard though, I assume ). 6) Support of a Programmable Primitive Processor 7) The only units being shared between the VS and the PS are the texture lookup units ( NOT addressing units; addressing is still done on a standard FP32 unit ). 8 ) Most likely no 512MB version, that's still overkill IMO. 9) PCI-Express support, most likely ( but not certainly ) through a compatibility bridge between AGP and PCI-Express. 10) Completely new AA algorithm, most likely a stochaistic(sp?) approach. --- Release: February-March 2004 And when it comes to the NV50... --- 1) Full ILDP; sharing of VS/PS units 2) 0.09u most likely 3) Not a TBDR! --- Release: Mid 2005, most likely ( SIGGRAPH? ) |
#2
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They don't mention how many PCI slots the cooling system blocks... or how
many hundred watts the fan will require. "NV55" wrote in message om... while surfing Beyond3D and Rage3D forums, I found: NV40 --- 1) 600Mhz core on IBM's 0.13u technology, 48GB/s memory bandwidth with 256-bit GDDR2 2) 8x2 ( possibly 16x0 or 16x1 mode, although I'd find that rather stupid personally due to the focus on AA ). 3) FP32/FP16/FX16, this means PS1.4. is done in FX16 100% legally, while it would seem logical for PS2.0. partial precision to be done in FP16 unless MS decides to expose the HW better in an upcoming DX9 revision. 4) ( unsure ) HUGE die, NVIDIA is most likely artificially increasing die size to make cooling more efficient. 5) Slightly beyond PS3.0. / VS3.0. specificiations ( not anywhere as much as PS2.0.+ and VS2.0.+ were compared to the PS/VS2.0. standard though, I assume ). 6) Support of a Programmable Primitive Processor 7) The only units being shared between the VS and the PS are the texture lookup units ( NOT addressing units; addressing is still done on a standard FP32 unit ). 8 ) Most likely no 512MB version, that's still overkill IMO. 9) PCI-Express support, most likely ( but not certainly ) through a compatibility bridge between AGP and PCI-Express. 10) Completely new AA algorithm, most likely a stochaistic(sp?) approach. --- Release: February-March 2004 And when it comes to the NV50... --- 1) Full ILDP; sharing of VS/PS units 2) 0.09u most likely 3) Not a TBDR! --- Release: Mid 2005, most likely ( SIGGRAPH? ) |
#3
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maybe a noobie question, but any ideas on card length?
tim "NV55" wrote in message om... while surfing Beyond3D and Rage3D forums, I found: NV40 --- 1) 600Mhz core on IBM's 0.13u technology, 48GB/s memory bandwidth with 256-bit GDDR2 2) 8x2 ( possibly 16x0 or 16x1 mode, although I'd find that rather stupid personally due to the focus on AA ). 3) FP32/FP16/FX16, this means PS1.4. is done in FX16 100% legally, while it would seem logical for PS2.0. partial precision to be done in FP16 unless MS decides to expose the HW better in an upcoming DX9 revision. 4) ( unsure ) HUGE die, NVIDIA is most likely artificially increasing die size to make cooling more efficient. 5) Slightly beyond PS3.0. / VS3.0. specificiations ( not anywhere as much as PS2.0.+ and VS2.0.+ were compared to the PS/VS2.0. standard though, I assume ). 6) Support of a Programmable Primitive Processor 7) The only units being shared between the VS and the PS are the texture lookup units ( NOT addressing units; addressing is still done on a standard FP32 unit ). 8 ) Most likely no 512MB version, that's still overkill IMO. 9) PCI-Express support, most likely ( but not certainly ) through a compatibility bridge between AGP and PCI-Express. 10) Completely new AA algorithm, most likely a stochaistic(sp?) approach. --- Release: February-March 2004 And when it comes to the NV50... --- 1) Full ILDP; sharing of VS/PS units 2) 0.09u most likely 3) Not a TBDR! --- Release: Mid 2005, most likely ( SIGGRAPH? ) |
#4
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:02:10 GMT, "Lenny" wrote:
They don't mention how many PCI slots the cooling system blocks... or how many hundred watts the fan will require. It'll probably be a one PCI slot blocked affair again, that seems to be the trend with Nvidia these days - sadly - and then they'll leave it up to their partners to develop a 1-slot solution. Er, the PCI slot next to the AGP is pretty useless anyway, since it shares interrupts with the AGP slot. This PCI slot is only safely useful for something that requires no interrupts. John Lewis As for the fan, I guess it'll consume maybe half a watt or so, but the card as a whole might well need upwards of a hundred. |
#5
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:59:19 GMT
"Lenny" wrote: Er, the PCI slot next to the AGP is pretty useless anyway, since it shares interrupts with the AGP slot. This is not true, both because they don't share on ALL mobos, and also because sharing is NO PROBLEM in modern systems. Lemme guess, you believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny too. When he says it's shared, he means that it's hard wired to the same interrupt--in other words if Windows dynamically reassigns the interrupt for one it necessarily reassigns the interrupt for the other, which _does_ cause problems if the devices in the two slots are both high-traffic devices. If you have sharing issues, the hard/software in your system is faulty. I shared the IRQ on my vidcard with two other PCI devices (none in the 2nd slot) when I ran WinME, no issues whatsoever. On XP, I have FOUR devices sharing with vid-card. Again, no issues. CHeck your own box, chances are very good you'll have things sharing too. It's not an issue, that's the way the system is supposed to work. You will find under XP that all devices nominally share the same interrupt. That does not mean that they all use the same interrupt--windows will reassign interrupts as required by the workload on the system. This PCI slot is only safely useful for something that requires no interrupts. There's almost no PCI devices that don't. PCI devices are almost exclusively I/O devices, and those almost exclusively use busmastering, which requires an interrupt. Besides, your statement is flat-out WRONG. Actually, yours is not exactly "flat-out WRONG" but demonstrative of a lack of understanding of how Windows assigns interrupts and of a lack of experience that would show you that sometimes automatic interrupt reassignment and interrupt sharing do not work as well as advertised. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#6
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() |\/| 3 G /-\ wrote:
maybe a noobie question, but any ideas on card length? tim "NV55" wrote in message om... while surfing Beyond3D and Rage3D forums, I found: NV40 --- 1) 600Mhz core on IBM's 0.13u technology, 48GB/s memory bandwidth with 256-bit GDDR2 2) 8x2 ( possibly 16x0 or 16x1 mode, although I'd find that rather stupid personally due to the focus on AA ). 3) FP32/FP16/FX16, this means PS1.4. is done in FX16 100% legally, while it would seem logical for PS2.0. partial precision to be done in FP16 unless MS decides to expose the HW better in an upcoming DX9 revision. 4) ( unsure ) HUGE die, NVIDIA is most likely artificially increasing die size to make cooling more efficient. 5) Slightly beyond PS3.0. / VS3.0. specificiations ( not anywhere as much as PS2.0.+ and VS2.0.+ were compared to the PS/VS2.0. standard though, I assume ). 6) Support of a Programmable Primitive Processor 7) The only units being shared between the VS and the PS are the texture lookup units ( NOT addressing units; addressing is still done on a standard FP32 unit ). 8 ) Most likely no 512MB version, that's still overkill IMO. 9) PCI-Express support, most likely ( but not certainly ) through a compatibility bridge between AGP and PCI-Express. 10) Completely new AA algorithm, most likely a stochaistic(sp?) approach. --- Release: February-March 2004 And when it comes to the NV50... --- 1) Full ILDP; sharing of VS/PS units 2) 0.09u most likely 3) Not a TBDR! --- Release: Mid 2005, most likely ( SIGGRAPH? ) The closer we get to a generalized programmable GPU, the less space a card will eventually take up. This given with the feature set indications Beyond3D has written up about DirectX Next (and therefore reasonable expectations of future hardware support) leads me to believe generation after next cards (like NV45? or NV50?) will actually use less chips since they won't rely on VRAM as much as they do a fair sized primary cache (like the L1 on a normal CPU). So a 512MB card might be totally unnecessary. Virtual memory addressing will help a GREAT deal, especially with hitches and stuttering. Elminating the need to have absolutely every single texture object in RAM at the time and only what it needs when it needs it (like a single mip map, or a single portion of a texture element, sort of like tile-rendering for everything and the AGP bus isn't constantly flooded with large textures, only small bytes in real time without a performance hit) |
#7
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On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 02:10:42 GMT
"Lenny" wrote: Lemme guess, you believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny too. Right. Nothing beats starting out a post discrediting the one you're replying to. Smart move, I must remember that one if I find facts aren't on my side for once. When he says it's shared, he means that it's hard wired to the same interrupt--in other words if Windows dynamically reassigns the interrupt for one it necessarily reassigns the interrupt for the other, which_does_ cause problems if the devices in the two slots are both high-traffic devices. Which part of "this is the way it's supposed to work?" don't you understand? Which part of "hard wired to the same interrupt" are you having trouble with? It's _supposed_ to work by assigning interrupts independently as needed. If two slots are hard-wired to the same interrupt then that capability is defeated. There's no problems with sharing interrupts. For chrissakes, they're MEANT BT DESIGN to be shared! And that design is itself a kluge intended to make up for the fact that there are not enough interrupts available in the original PC architecture to accomodate the number of devices that can be installed. Do you happen to own one of those nifty combined firewire/usb2 expansion cards by any chance? Believe it or not, but those things ACTUALLY WORK, despite being as you say, "high-traffic devices", and neccessarily sharing the same interrupt. Those boards are single devices intended to work from the same interrupt, they are not independent devices designed by independent teams for independent purposes. And how much traffic they can actually handle is debatable. I happen to own one of them, and I can attest that indeed, there are no issues. So let's see, now, you can perform a sustained transfer from the USB side to the Firewire side and vice versa at the maximum speed allowed by the standards with no trouble? So what devices do you have attached that can provide data at those rates? Sorry, but you simply fail to produce a convincing argument for your case. Facts and reality speak against you. Believe what you want to. But don't come crying to me when reality bites you in the ass. IRQ sharing isn't a problem in the PCI world. Not saying it works flawlessly 100% of the time because virtually nothing about the PC does, but that's not the same as it is a significant source of trouble. That's the point, it _doesn't_ work flawlessly 100% of the time even when devices are not inserted in slots that force them to use the same interrupt. Mostly people who spout this 'sharing is evil' nonsense are still perpetuating stuff that was relevant back in the old ISA days. Not so anymore. Depends. You think the chipset and mobo makers are stupid or something, that they put in support for six or even seven PCI busmasters/slots if it wasn't possible to actually use them all without running into trouble? It takes two to tango--even if the chipset design is perfect, that does not mean that the six or seven PCI boards plugged into those slots are all also perfect. The designers of the chips and the designers of the motherboards make the assumption that the people who are using them will be aware of their limitations and will act accordingly rather than rashly assuming as you seem determined to do that they can just plug things in willy-nilly and have them work. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#8
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On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:26:34 -0500, "J.Clarke"
wrote: On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 19:59:19 GMT "Lenny" wrote: Er, the PCI slot next to the AGP is pretty useless anyway, since it shares interrupts with the AGP slot. This is not true, both because they don't share on ALL mobos, and also because sharing is NO PROBLEM in modern systems. Lemme guess, you believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny too. When he says it's shared, he means that it's hard wired to the same interrupt--in other words if Windows dynamically reassigns the interrupt for one it necessarily reassigns the interrupt for the other, which _does_ cause problems if the devices in the two slots are both high-traffic devices. Thanks to another John, I did not immediately have to come back and state the obvious.............. Lenny must be a software-type where all PC hardware-contention problems are magically resolved by either a click of the keyboard or the M$$ OS takes care of it automatically..... For the properly-architectured Amiga, probably yes. For the legacy-riddled PC, frequently no. Other examples are on-board disk-controllers sharing interrupts with slot #3, and PCI slot #5 ( if present ) sharing with another slot. Mostly OK if the traffic volume can be shared AND the contending plug-ins/devices all comply with PCI 2.1 spec; the latter compliance still being a mine-field.......... Try putting a SBLive! (non 5.1) in PCI slot #1, with a video card already in the adjacent AGP slot. John Lewis If you have sharing issues, the hard/software in your system is faulty. I shared the IRQ on my vidcard with two other PCI devices (none in the 2nd slot) when I ran WinME, no issues whatsoever. On XP, I have FOUR devices sharing with vid-card. Again, no issues. CHeck your own box, chances are very good you'll have things sharing too. It's not an issue, that's the way the system is supposed to work. You will find under XP that all devices nominally share the same interrupt. That does not mean that they all use the same interrupt--windows will reassign interrupts as required by the workload on the system. This PCI slot is only safely useful for something that requires no interrupts. There's almost no PCI devices that don't. PCI devices are almost exclusively I/O devices, and those almost exclusively use busmastering, which requires an interrupt. Besides, your statement is flat-out WRONG. Actually, yours is not exactly "flat-out WRONG" but demonstrative of a lack of understanding of how Windows assigns interrupts and of a lack of experience that would show you that sometimes automatic interrupt reassignment and interrupt sharing do not work as well as advertised. -- -- --John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#9
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Lemme guess, you believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny too. Right. Nothing beats starting out a post discrediting the one you're replying to. Smart move, I must remember that one if I find facts aren't on my side for once. When he says it's shared, he means that it's hard wired to the same interrupt--in other words if Windows dynamically reassigns the interrupt for one it necessarily reassigns the interrupt for the other, which _does_ cause problems if the devices in the two slots are both high-traffic devices. Which part of "this is the way it's supposed to work?" don't you understand? There's no problems with sharing interrupts. For chrissakes, they're MEANT BT DESIGN to be shared! Do you happen to own one of those nifty combined firewire/usb2 expansion cards by any chance? Believe it or not, but those things ACTUALLY WORK, despite being as you say, "high-traffic devices", and neccessarily sharing the same interrupt. I happen to own one of them, and I can attest that indeed, there are no issues. Sorry, but you simply fail to produce a convincing argument for your case. Facts and reality speak against you. IRQ sharing isn't a problem in the PCI world. Not saying it works flawlessly 100% of the time because virtually nothing about the PC does, but that's not the same as it is a significant source of trouble. Mostly people who spout this 'sharing is evil' nonsense are still perpetuating stuff that was relevant back in the old ISA days. Not so anymore. You think the chipset and mobo makers are stupid or something, that they put in support for six or even seven PCI busmasters/slots if it wasn't possible to actually use them all without running into trouble? |
#10
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"Lenny" wrote in message:
Lemme guess, you believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny too. Right. Nothing beats starting out a post discrediting the one you're replying to. Smart move, I must remember that one if I find facts aren't on my side for once. When he says it's shared, he means that it's hard wired to the same interrupt--in other words if Windows dynamically reassigns the interrupt for one it necessarily reassigns the interrupt for the other, which _does_ cause problems if the devices in the two slots are both high-traffic devices. Which part of "this is the way it's supposed to work?" don't you understand? There's no problems with sharing interrupts. For chrissakes, they're MEANT BT DESIGN to be shared! I've had serious performance issues with network 3D gaming while windows APCI had my video card assigned to the same interrupt as my network card. When I moved the network card to a different PCI slot, windows gave it a different IRQ and my FPS increased by about 30 in certain situations. J.Clarke's reply on DEC 04, 2003 4:05 AM is absolutely correct IMO. Michael |
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