Can't Run 2 ATI Radeon Cards in my W2K Box--HELP!

Hi,

Any help you can shed on this problem would be greatly appreciated.

Basic setup before this afternoon was Asus P4P800 Dlx Mobo with P4 2.2 GHz/
1Gig PC2100 Micron DDR RAM, ATI Radeon 8500LE 128MB with the slow RAM,
bought from Crucial about 18 months ago (card, P4, RAM transferred to this
Mobo a month or so ago from an earlier system). I have been running a very
slight overclock (~15% on the FSB/P4/RAM), 30 passes MEMTEST86 at this
setting with no errors. Also, had Rage3D Tweek installed with modest OC on
the ATI card (201/301 vs. default of 150/250, if I recall). Everything was
rock hard stable.

I had just purchased a 2nd Dell 20" LCD Monitor (new one, being used as
primary, is 2001FP, older one is 2000FP). I knew I needed a PCI card (in
addition to the AGP 8500LE) to power the 2nd monitor if I wanted to use Win
2000 Extended Desktop, and also if I wanted to run both monitors off of the
DVI connectors. I posted on this board a week or so ago asking if I would
be able to put a 2nd Radeon into the box, if there would be software
conflicts, etc., and the advice I got was "no prob." I wasn't looking for a
screemer of a card, so after hunting around I settled on the ATI 9100 Pro
128 MB DDR card that Tiger Direct is closing out for ~$50 after rebate,
plus shipping. The afforementioned 9100 card arrived today.

Since then, I have been unable to get the box to boot up more than once, and
the 2nd time it freezes right after putting in the user password -- my
desktop wallpaper picture shows up, there is the message about your
"personal settings," but the screen is frozen and the system needs a hard
reboot after which the only way to get it to boot successfully is via W2K
Safe Mode. The only thing that works at that point is to uninstall all the
ATI software. After reinstalling the software (latest downloaded complete
Catalyst set which claims to be compatible with both cards), I can get it to
recognize both cards, and then when I reboot it might come up the next time
and it might not. In any event, it won't come up twice, locking up as I've
described, right after putting in the user password.

At this point I have tried everything that I can think of, including (1)
removing all overclocks on processor/FSB/RAM/Video Card; (2) removing the
cards one at a time and rebooting without any ATI software installed,
reloading the software for one remaining card in place (either the AGP or
the PCI card), seeing the system is stable for multiple reboots, and then
introducing the other remaining card, and (3) have tried the PCI Radeon card
in 2 or 3 of the PCI slots. None of these maneuvers have worked. I've even
tried removing all the software with both cards in place then reinstalling
it -- once again the system may boot up 1 or 2 times but then the system
locks up after password entry by the 3rd time it is booted. Previously the
AGP aperture was set at 128 MB (mobo default is 64) but I set that back to
64 in the bios also, and this does not help. The bios has the aperture
priority as AGP/PCI, which is default and which I've never changed.

Sometimes during the 1 or 2 times the system will initialize with both cards
in place, it seems like the system is running fine in extended desktop mode,
as if all drivers and setups are correct and solid. Sometimes it has not
gotten beyond the driver loading stage and only the main monitor or the 2nd
monitor seems to be working.

I have established that either card runs fine by itself, but that the system
will not work, will not boot, other than for 1 or 2 times, with both cards
in place. After the first time the system won't boot with both cards in
place, it will never boot again until all drivers are removed in safe mode.

What have I overlooked? Are these two cards incompatible in one box, or, as
I suspect, is there some sort of software glitch in there that is screwing
up the final stable install of the cards to coexist in one box?

Any suggestions you can give me would be greatly appreciated; I have already
wasted at least 3 hours on this project and I'm coming to the end of my
toleration for this sort of nonsence!

Best,

ken

They'll tell you that using two ATI cards in same system is not supported,
least that's the bull**** I get even though I can make it work here.

In general, you must get the primary card working by itself first and then
only install the driver for the second card when you put it in the system.

F.N wrote:
I would call ATI, they would know for sure if you can use those 2
cards in the system at the same time.

It should work though.

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:27:20 -0700, "Ken Fox"
wrote:

Hi,

Any help you can shed on this problem would be greatly appreciated.
[snip]

"pjp" wrote in message
...
They'll tell you that using two ATI cards in same system is not supported,
least that's the bull**** I get even though I can make it work here.

In general, you must get the primary card working by itself first and then
only install the driver for the second card when you put it in the system.

F.N wrote:
I would call ATI, they would know for sure if you can use those 2
cards in the system at the same time.

It should work though.

I think some Radeon card combinations will work, but the 2 cards I have
(8500LE and 9100 Regular Visiontek) are so similar as to be confused by the
drivers. I've tried every possible move I can think of, wasting most of the
weekend in the process!

These moves include removing both cards, removing all ATI software, drivers,
dlls, registry entries, etc. etc. etc., then installing 1 card later the
other, then reversed with the other card first, etc. etc. etc., used 4 of
the 6 PCI card slots rearranging everything in the box, etc. etc. etc.

I tried to install different software for each card -- system would not
allow this as the files have basically the same names and get overwritten.

I guess there is the possibility of trying to flash a new or different bios
onto one or the other card but without any reasonable likelihood of success
it seems like a waste of effort.

Another possibility would be to try an Nvidia card of some sort in addition
to one of the cards to see if they could co-exist. Also, I'm not sure if
the New Visiontek ATI 9100 (not SE, full version) 128MB card, which has
faster RAM, is a "better" card than the Crucial 128MB 8500LE, in spite of it
being PCI-based. If it is than maybe I should try a new Nvidia or other
card in the AGP slot and retain the PCI card.

Thanks for any other suggestions ---

ken

Basically all variations on the same problem. ATI clearly does not properly
detect all the video cards in the system and act accordingly. For me, the
biggest problem is the Rage Theatre chip not being in my secondary Xpert98
card and Radeon install therefore won't install TV-IN as it doesn't even
detect the primary Radeon also in the system.

It's just a shortsighted limited software design issue they probably don't
give two hoots about so it'll not change.

What I REALLY hate is the current **** around I'm dealing with is solely
because the TV-IN app would hang when terminating after going from DX8.1 to
DX9.0b.

I'm thinking of buying some cheap 2nd hand pci nVidea card to replace the
Xpert98 to avoid this bs in the future.

Ken Fox wrote:
"pjp" wrote in message
...
They'll tell you that using two ATI cards in same system is not
supported, least that's the bull**** I get even though I can make it
work here.

In general, you must get the primary card working by itself first
and then only install the driver for the second card when you put it
in the system.

F.N wrote:
I would call ATI, they would know for sure if you can use those 2
cards in the system at the same time.

It should work though.

I think some Radeon card combinations will work, but the 2 cards I
have (8500LE and 9100 Regular Visiontek) are so similar as to be
confused by the drivers. I've tried every possible move I can think
of, wasting most of the weekend in the process!

These moves include removing both cards, removing all ATI software,
drivers, dlls, registry entries, etc. etc. etc., then installing 1
card later the other, then reversed with the other card first, etc.
etc. etc., used 4 of the 6 PCI card slots rearranging everything in
the box, etc. etc. etc.

I tried to install different software for each card -- system would
not allow this as the files have basically the same names and get
overwritten.

I guess there is the possibility of trying to flash a new or
different bios onto one or the other card but without any reasonable
likelihood of success it seems like a waste of effort.

Another possibility would be to try an Nvidia card of some sort in
addition to one of the cards to see if they could co-exist. Also,
I'm not sure if the New Visiontek ATI 9100 (not SE, full version)
128MB card, which has faster RAM, is a "better" card than the Crucial
128MB 8500LE, in spite of it being PCI-based. If it is than maybe I
should try a new Nvidia or other card in the AGP slot and retain the
PCI card.

Thanks for any other suggestions ---

ken

"pjp" wrote in message
...
Basically all variations on the same problem. ATI clearly does not
properly
detect all the video cards in the system and act accordingly. For me, the
biggest problem is the Rage Theatre chip not being in my secondary Xpert98
card and Radeon install therefore won't install TV-IN as it doesn't even
detect the primary Radeon also in the system.

It's just a shortsighted limited software design issue they probably don't
give two hoots about so it'll not change.

What I REALLY hate is the current **** around I'm dealing with is solely
because the TV-IN app would hang when terminating after going from DX8.1
to
DX9.0b.

I'm thinking of buying some cheap 2nd hand pci nVidea card to replace the
Xpert98 to avoid this bs in the future.

I have literally tried every single maneuver I can think of to try to get
the two cards to work in the same box, including even renaming the driver
set and installing it twice under 2 names and trying to get each card to go
to a separate set of files. No dice.

Total waste of time and were it not for Norton Ghost I would have trashed my
system install, as well.

Screw ATI, I'm going elsewhere for future video cards.

ken








Ken Fox wrote:
"pjp" wrote in message
...
They'll tell you that using two ATI cards in same system is not
supported, least that's the bull**** I get even though I can make it
work here.

In general, you must get the primary card working by itself first
and then only install the driver for the second card when you put it
in the system.

F.N wrote:
I would call ATI, they would know for sure if you can use those 2
cards in the system at the same time.

It should work though.

I think some Radeon card combinations will work, but the 2 cards I
have (8500LE and 9100 Regular Visiontek) are so similar as to be
confused by the drivers. I've tried every possible move I can think
of, wasting most of the weekend in the process!

These moves include removing both cards, removing all ATI software,
drivers, dlls, registry entries, etc. etc. etc., then installing 1
card later the other, then reversed with the other card first, etc.
etc. etc., used 4 of the 6 PCI card slots rearranging everything in
the box, etc. etc. etc.

I tried to install different software for each card -- system would
not allow this as the files have basically the same names and get
overwritten.

I guess there is the possibility of trying to flash a new or
different bios onto one or the other card but without any reasonable
likelihood of success it seems like a waste of effort.

Another possibility would be to try an Nvidia card of some sort in
addition to one of the cards to see if they could co-exist. Also,
I'm not sure if the New Visiontek ATI 9100 (not SE, full version)
128MB card, which has faster RAM, is a "better" card than the Crucial
128MB 8500LE, in spite of it being PCI-based. If it is than maybe I
should try a new Nvidia or other card in the AGP slot and retain the
PCI card.

Thanks for any other suggestions ---

ken

"Ken Fox" wrote in message
...
"pjp" wrote in message
...
Basically all variations on the same problem. ATI clearly does not
properly
detect all the video cards in the system and act accordingly. For me,
the
biggest problem is the Rage Theatre chip not being in my secondary
Xpert98
card and Radeon install therefore won't install TV-IN as it doesn't even
detect the primary Radeon also in the system.

It's just a shortsighted limited software design issue they probably
don't
give two hoots about so it'll not change.

What I REALLY hate is the current **** around I'm dealing with is solely
because the TV-IN app would hang when terminating after going from DX8.1
to
DX9.0b.

I'm thinking of buying some cheap 2nd hand pci nVidea card to replace
the
Xpert98 to avoid this bs in the future.

I have literally tried every single maneuver I can think of to try to get
the two cards to work in the same box, including even renaming the driver
set and installing it twice under 2 names and trying to get each card to
go
to a separate set of files. No dice.

Total waste of time and were it not for Norton Ghost I would have trashed
my
system install, as well.

Screw ATI, I'm going elsewhere for future video cards.

ken


I called Visiontek support this morning and asked about these problems
(Visiontek made the card with the ATI 9100 chip on it). Tech support told
me that the card has been tested on a number of mobos in dual PCI/AGP
settings. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. He had no tricks or
further suggestions and I am 99,9% certain I've tried every possible
maneuver short of rewriting the drivers myself.

Card being RMA'd.

ken














Ken Fox wrote:
"pjp" wrote in message
...
They'll tell you that using two ATI cards in same system is not
supported, least that's the bull**** I get even though I can make it
work here.

In general, you must get the primary card working by itself first
and then only install the driver for the second card when you put it
in the system.

F.N wrote:
I would call ATI, they would know for sure if you can use those 2
cards in the system at the same time.

It should work though.

I think some Radeon card combinations will work, but the 2 cards I
have (8500LE and 9100 Regular Visiontek) are so similar as to be
confused by the drivers. I've tried every possible move I can think
of, wasting most of the weekend in the process!

These moves include removing both cards, removing all ATI software,
drivers, dlls, registry entries, etc. etc. etc., then installing 1
card later the other, then reversed with the other card first, etc.
etc. etc., used 4 of the 6 PCI card slots rearranging everything in
the box, etc. etc. etc.

I tried to install different software for each card -- system would
not allow this as the files have basically the same names and get
overwritten.

I guess there is the possibility of trying to flash a new or
different bios onto one or the other card but without any reasonable
likelihood of success it seems like a waste of effort.

Another possibility would be to try an Nvidia card of some sort in
addition to one of the cards to see if they could co-exist. Also,
I'm not sure if the New Visiontek ATI 9100 (not SE, full version)
128MB card, which has faster RAM, is a "better" card than the Crucial
128MB 8500LE, in spite of it being PCI-based. If it is than maybe I
should try a new Nvidia or other card in the AGP slot and retain the
PCI card.

Thanks for any other suggestions ---

ken