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Intel 'Larrabee' GPU: 16 Cores - 2GHz - 150W - Nvidia Partnership(?)
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/news/242
Larrabee: 16 Cores, 2GHz, 150W, and more... Friday 01st June 2007, 06:08:45 PM, written by Arun It is amazing how much information is out there in the wild, when you know where to look. TG Daily has just published an article partially based on a presentation they were tipped off about, and which was uploaded on the 26th of April. It reveals a substantial amount of new information, which we will not focus on analysing right now, so we do encourage you to read it for yourself. Page 1 discusses the possibility that Larrabee is a joint effort between NVIDIA and Intel, which we find unlikely, and is possibly just a misinterpretation of the recently announced patent licensing agreement between the two companies. Page 2 is much more interesting however, as they link to the presentation above and also uncover the hidden Larrabee PCB diagram on slide 16. We would tend not to agree with most of the analysis and speculation provided by TG Daily, but it's still worth a good read along with the presentation, which we are very glad they uncovered. Especially interesting are slides 16, 17, 19, 24 and 31. That last one includes some very interesting and previously unknown information on Intel's upcoming Gesher CPU architecture (aka Sandy Bridge), which is aimed at the 32nm node in the 2010 timeframe. Larrabee, on the other hand, will presumably be manufactured on Intel's 45nm process but sport a larger die size. ____________ http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/32282/137/ Intel set to announce graphics partnership with Nvidia? By Wolfgang Gruener, Darren Polkowski Friday, June 01, 2007 01:26 Intel set to announce graphics partnership with Nvidia? Chicago (IL) - Intel may soon be announcing a close relationship with Nvidia, which apparently will be contributing to the company's Larrabee project, TG Daily has learned. Larrabee is expected to roll out in 2009 and debut as a floating point accelerator product with a performance of more than 1 TFlops as well as a high-end graphics card with dual-graphics capabilities. Rumors about Intel's Larrabee processor have been floating around for more than a year. Especially since the product's official announcement at this year's spring IDF and an accelerating interest in floating point accelerators, the topic itself and surrounding rumors are gaining traction every day. Industry sources told TG Daily that Intel is preparing a "big" announcement involving technologies that will be key to develop Larrabee. And at least some of those technologies may actually be coming from Nvidia, we hear: Our sources described Larrabee as a "joint effort" between the two companies, which may expand over time. A scenario in which Intel may work with Nvidia to develop Intel- tailored discrete graphics solutions is speculation but is considered to be a likely relationship between the two companies down the road. Clearly, Intel and Nvidia are thinking well beyond their cross- licensing agreements that are in place today. It is unclear when the collaboration will be announced; however, details could surface as early as June 26, when the International Supercomputing Conference 2007 will open its doors in Dresden, Germany. Asked about a possible announcement with Intel, Nvidia spokesperson Ken Brown provided us with a brief statement: "We enjoy a good working relationship with Intel and have agreements and ongoing engineering activities as a result. This said, we cannot comment further about items that are covered by confidentiality agreements between Intel and Nvidia." Intel replied to our inquiry by saying that the company does "not comment on rumors and speculation." The AMD-ATI and Intel-Nvidia thingy In the light of the AMD-ATI merger, it is only to be expected that the relationship between Intel and Nvidia is examined on an ongoing basis. So, what does a closer relationship between Intel and Nvidia mean? The combination with ATI enabled AMD to grow into a different class of company. It evolved from being CPU-focused into a platform company that not only can match some key technologies of Intel, but at least for now has an edge in areas such as visualization capabilities. At a recent press briefing, the company showed off some of its ideas and it was clear to us that especially the area of general purpose GPUs will pave the way to a whole new world of enterprise and desktop computing. Nvidia is taking a similar approach with its CUDA software interface, which allows developers to take advantage of the (general purpose) floating point horsepower of Geforce 8 graphics processors - more than 500 GFlops per chip. Intel's Larrabee processor is also aimed at applications that benefit from floating point acceleration - such as physics, enhanced AI and ray tracing. While it has been speculated that Intel may be creating Larrabee with an IA CPU architecture, we were told there may be more GPU elements in this processor than we previously had thought. A Larrabee card with a (general purpose) graphics processing unit will support CPUs in applications that at least partially benefit from massively parallel processing (as opposed to the traditional sequential processing); in gaming, the Larrabee processor can be used for physics processing, for example. An imminent collaboration announcement between Intel and Nvidia, which reminds us of a recent Digitimes story that claimed Nvidia was trading technologies with Intel, of course, raises the question how close the relationship between Intel and Nvidia might be. It also raises the question, once again, if Intel may actually be interested in buying Nvidia - which could make a whole lot of sense for Intel, but appears to be rather unlikely at this time. Nvidia could cost Intel more than $15 billion, given the firm's current market cap of $12.6 billion, and the talk in Silicon Valley indicates that Nvidia co-founder and CEO Jen-Hsun Huang isn't really interested in selling the company. But a deal with Intel, involving the licensing of technologies or even supply of GPUs could have a huge impact on Nvidia's bottom line and catapult the company into a new phase of growth. However, a closer collaboration could be important for Intel as well: AMD's acquisition of ATI was not a measure to raise the stakes in the graphics market or to battle Nvidia; it was a move to compete in the future CPU market - with Intel. Having Nvidia on board provides Intel with a graphics advantage, at least from today's point of view, and could allow the company to more easily access advanced graphics technology down the road. What we know about Larrabee Intel has recently shared more information with the public about its intents in the realm of general purpose GPU (GPGPU). In a presentation from March 7 of this year, Intel discussed its data parallelism programming implementation called Ct. The presentation discusses the use of flat vectors and very large instruction words (VLIW as utilized in ATI/AMD's R600). In essence, the Ct application programming language (API) bridges the gap of allowing it to work with existing legacy APIs and libraries as well as co-exist with current multiprocessing APIs (Pthreads and OpenMP), yet provides "extended functionality to address irregular algorithms." http://www.tgdaily.com/images/storie...abee_board.gif There are several things to point out from the image above, which is a block diagram of a board utilizing Larrabee. First is the PCIe 2.0 interface with the system. Intel is currently testing PCIe 2.0 as part of the Bearlake-X (Beachwood) chipset (commercial name: X38), which could be coming out as part of the Wolfdale 45 nm processor rollout late this year or early in 2008. Larrabee won't arrive until 2009, but our sources indicate that if you buy an X38-based board, you will be able to run a Larrabee board in such a system. In the upper right hand corner the power connections indicate 150 watts and 75 watts. These correspond to 8-pin and 6-pin power connections that we have seen on the recent ATI HD2900XT. Intel expects the power consumption of such a board to be higher than 150 watts. There are video outputs to the far left and as well as video in. Larrabee appears to have VIVO functionality as well as HDMI output based on the audio-in block seen at the top left. A set of BSI connections are next to the audio in connection. We are not positive on what the abbreviation stands for but we speculate that these are connections for using these cards in parallel like ATI's Crossfire or Nvidia's SLI technologies. Finally, there is the size of the processor (package). That is over twice the size of current GPUs as ATI's R600 is roughly 21 mm by 20 mm (420 mm²). Intel describes the chip as a "discrete high end GPU" on a general purpose platform, using at least 16 cores and providing a "fully programmable performance of 1 TFlops." http://www.tgdaily.com/images/storie.../larrabee1.gif Moving on we can see that Larrabee will be based on a multi-SIMD configuration. From other discussions about the chip across the net, it would seem that each is scalar that works using Vec16 instructions. That would mean that, for graphics applications, it could work on blocks of 2x2 pixels at a time. These "in-Order" execution SIMDs will have floating point 16 (FP16) precision as outlined by IEEE754. Also to note is the use of a ring memory architecture. From a presentation by Intel Chief Architect Ed Davis called "tera Tera Tera", Davis outlines that the internal bandwidth on the bus will be 256 B/cycle and the external memory will have a bandwidth of 128 GB/s. This is extremely fast and achievable based on the 1.7-2.5 GHz projections for the core frequency. Attached to each core will be some form of texturing unit as well as a dynamically partitioned cache and ring stop on the memory ring. In the final image below you will notice that each device will have a 17 GB/s of bandwidth per link. These links tie into a next generation Southbridge titled "ICH-n" as this is yet to be determined. From discussions with those in the industry, it would appear that the external memory might not be soldered into the board but in fact be plug in modules. The slide denotes DDR3, GDDR, as well as FBD or fully buffered DIMMs. It will be interesting to see what form this will actually be implemented as but that is the fun of speculation. http://www.tgdaily.com/images/storie.../larrabee3.jpg The current layout of project Larrabee is a deviation of previous Intel roadmap targets. In a 2005 whitepaper entitled "Platform 2015: Intel Processor and Platform Evolution for the Next Decade", the company outlines a series of Xscale processors based on Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing or EPIC. Intel has deviated slightly from its initial roadmap since the release of this paper: Intel sold Xscale to Marvell last year, which makes it a rather unlikely product for Larrabee - and could have opened up the discussion for other processing units. What is interesting is that rumors that Intel was looking for talent for an upcoming "project" involving graphics started passing around already more than a year and a half ago. In August of last year, you could apply for positions on Career Builder and Intel's own website. A current generic job description exists on Intel's website. Concluding note While this is an interesting approach to graphics, physics, and general purpose processing, we will be seeing the meat in the final product as well as the success of acceptance with independent software vendors (ISVs). In our opinion, the concept of the GPGPU is the most significant development in the computer environment in at least 15 years. The topic has been gaining ground lately and this new implementation from Intel could take things to a whole new level. As for the graphics performance, only time will tell. It will be interesting to see which role Nvidia will play in Intel's strategy. Keep a close eye on this one. |
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Intel and Nvidia: grand graphics alliance?
Will Intel be teaming up with Nvidia over Larrabee? Intel and Nvidia: grand graphics alliance? More details of the mysterious Larrabee project emerge Dan Grabham 05 Jun 2007 17:03 Could Intel and Nvidia be preparing to unveil a grand PC graphics technology alliance? That's the latest rumour following the release of further details of Intel's in-house graphics project, known as Larrabee. But is it true? As we reported back in April, Larrabee is an all-new processor design from Intel that is due out in 2009 and majors on floating point power. Larrabee processors are expected to come in several forms including a dedicated graphics processing chip. However, according to website TGDaily , Intel will actually be teaming up with Californian graphics company Nvidia to produce the new chip. Engineering work for the new processor will be shared between the two companies. Intel's engineers will design the floating point units used for shader calculations while Nvidia will supply the circuitry required to rasterise and output graphics. Intel and Nvidia already have an existing patent cross-licensing agreement, so closer co-operation between the two companies is certainly plausible. Especially in the context of the recent acquisition of Canadians graphics outfit by Intel's main rival AMD . In any case, TGDaily has certainly stumbled upon some interesting new facts regarding Larrabee. In a document recently released but not widely publicised, Intel confirms the Larrabee project will initially give birth to two chips. The first is the aforementioned graphics chip composed of 16 Larrabee cores and a slew of dedicated 3D output hardware and video memory. This flavour of the Larrabee processor will reside on an add-in board just like existing graphics cards. In other words, it will go head to head against high performance video boards from Nvidia and ATI. The second design is a so-called general purpose chip that will be capable of running the full x86 instruction set. However, with a total of 24 cores, it will deliver truly mind-bending floating point power - as much as one trillion floating point operations per second. Incredibly, that's approximately 40 times the floating point power of an existing Intel Core 2 dual-core processor. This version of Larrabee probably isn't suited to all-round desktop processing. Intel has another, completely separate road map of Core 2-based chips to cater for that market. But for specialist applications such medical calculations, for example protein folding à la Folding at Home, and perhaps even high-end gaming with sophisticated physics simulations, Larrabee will be a very interesting indeed. http://tinyurl.com/2hxmct |
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Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD
another interesting, though speculative Larrabee article:
___________________ Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD Could Larrabee mean another tortuous time for AMD? tech.co.uk staff Thursday 07 June 2007 16:19 It's a silly sounding name, Larrabee. But it must fill AMD 's heart with terror. It's the codename, of course, for a whole family of new processors being cooked up by Intel . And it promises to add graphics insult to AMD's existing CPU injuries. Frankly, things are bad enough for AMD already. Since launch last summer, the Core 2 processor has been pistol whipping AMD's Athlon CPUs into burger meat. Meanwhile, AMD's upcoming quad-core competitor, broadly known as Barcelona, looks like a pretty unambitious effort. It will certainly have to be some chip to take on Intel's upcoming 45nm die shrink of the Core 2 chip. Factor in recent reports of a launch delay for Barcelona and I'm beginning to get the fear about AMD's ability to compete. Then there's the spectacular fashion in which the wheels have come off AMD's recently acquired ATI graphics subsidiary. ATI's all new flagship graphics DX10 board, the Radeon HD 2900 XT was very late, extremely underwhelming on arrival and possibly a bit broken. The midrange variants of the Radeon HD range don't look much healthier: they've been sent back to the fab for a respin. Not a good sign. In that context, the emergence of the Larrabee project from Intel is just further proof of how far ahead of the game Intel appears to be at moment. For the uninitiated, Larrabee is an all new multi-core processor design that majors on floating point power. The full feature set hasn't been revealed as yet, but an official Intel document turned up on a university website recently that reveals several fascinating new details. Try these specs for size. Larrabee will be available in configurations ranging from 16 to 24 with clock speeds as high as 2GHz and raw performance in the 1TFlop range. The latter figure is approximately 40 times more than an existing Intel Core 2 Duo chip. Yup, you read it right. 40 times. And the first Larrabee chips are pencilled in for as soon as 2009. Of course, floating point power is just one part of the overall PC processing equation - Intel will be retaining a conventional CPU roadmap for general purpose duties based on the existing Core 2 family. But Larrabee will take Intel into brand new markets. Significantly, the document confirmed that a variant with full 3D video rendering capability is on the cards. As we reported earlier this week, the rumblings on the rumour mill suggest the chip could be a joint effort with Nvidia. Either way, the most fascinating aspect of the Larrabee GPU is the expectation that it could be the first graphics processor to combine both traditional raster graphics with more advanced ray-tracing techniques. Without getting bogged down in the details, suffice to understand that raster graphics are a bit of a kludge when it comes to simulating lighting. Ray-tracing is the real deal. Ask any 3D graphics professional what they think about ray tracing on GPUs and they'll tell it's a matter of when rather than if. Of course, AMD and ATI will know perfectly well that ray tracing is the future. But what must be really worrying is that it presents Intel with the perfect inflection point to enter the graphics market. ATI and Nvidia have refined raster graphics to the point where other companies, including Intel, simply can't compete. But a new age of ray- traced graphics will level the playing field and might just hand Intel a chance for the total domination of the PC platform it so dearly desires. Jeremy Laird ________________ http://tinyurl.com/2znr39 |
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Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD
"AirRaid" wrote in message oups.com... another interesting, though speculative Larrabee article: ___________________ Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD Could Larrabee mean another tortuous time for AMD? tech.co.uk staff Thursday 07 June 2007 16:19 It's a silly sounding name, Larrabee. But it must fill AMD 's heart with terror. It's the codename, of course, for a whole family of new processors being cooked up by Intel . And it promises to add graphics insult to AMD's existing CPU injuries. Frankly, things are bad enough for AMD already. Since launch last summer, the Core 2 processor has been pistol whipping AMD's Athlon CPUs into burger meat. Meanwhile, AMD's upcoming quad-core competitor, broadly known as Barcelona, looks like a pretty unambitious effort. It will certainly have to be some chip to take on Intel's upcoming 45nm die shrink of the Core 2 chip. Factor in recent reports of a launch delay for Barcelona and I'm beginning to get the fear about AMD's ability to compete. Then there's the spectacular fashion in which the wheels have come off AMD's recently acquired ATI graphics subsidiary. ATI's all new flagship graphics DX10 board, the Radeon HD 2900 XT was very late, extremely underwhelming on arrival and possibly a bit broken. The midrange variants of the Radeon HD range don't look much healthier: they've been sent back to the fab for a respin. Not a good sign. In that context, the emergence of the Larrabee project from Intel is just further proof of how far ahead of the game Intel appears to be at moment. For the uninitiated, Larrabee is an all new multi-core processor design that majors on floating point power. The full feature set hasn't been revealed as yet, but an official Intel document turned up on a university website recently that reveals several fascinating new details. Try these specs for size. Larrabee will be available in configurations ranging from 16 to 24 with clock speeds as high as 2GHz and raw performance in the 1TFlop range. The latter figure is approximately 40 times more than an existing Intel Core 2 Duo chip. Yup, you read it right. 40 times. And the first Larrabee chips are pencilled in for as soon as 2009. Of course, floating point power is just one part of the overall PC processing equation - Intel will be retaining a conventional CPU roadmap for general purpose duties based on the existing Core 2 family. But Larrabee will take Intel into brand new markets. Significantly, the document confirmed that a variant with full 3D video rendering capability is on the cards. As we reported earlier this week, the rumblings on the rumour mill suggest the chip could be a joint effort with Nvidia. Either way, the most fascinating aspect of the Larrabee GPU is the expectation that it could be the first graphics processor to combine both traditional raster graphics with more advanced ray-tracing techniques. Without getting bogged down in the details, suffice to understand that raster graphics are a bit of a kludge when it comes to simulating lighting. Ray-tracing is the real deal. Ask any 3D graphics professional what they think about ray tracing on GPUs and they'll tell it's a matter of when rather than if. Of course, AMD and ATI will know perfectly well that ray tracing is the future. But what must be really worrying is that it presents Intel with the perfect inflection point to enter the graphics market. ATI and Nvidia have refined raster graphics to the point where other companies, including Intel, simply can't compete. But a new age of ray- traced graphics will level the playing field and might just hand Intel a chance for the total domination of the PC platform it so dearly desires. Jeremy Laird ________________ http://tinyurl.com/2znr39 What would worry me is how much Intel could charge for CPU's if they did 'kill' of AMD ( BillL |
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Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1 In alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 BillL wrote: What would worry me is how much Intel could charge for CPU's if they did 'kill' of AMD ( BillL Picture the days before AMD and Cyrix came out with their 486 and 586-compatible CPUs, and how much they cost back then (with relation to cost of living, etc.). Could be headed back that way. BL. - -- Brad Littlejohn | Email: Unix Systems Administrator, | Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGaZ5HyBkZmuMZ8L8RAhHPAJ4/4Ef/or3B2edgzASstS2QbTE4OgCg2CPq MNHQDPrFxNp8BiOKRGnpspM= =WFDr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |
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Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:35:01 GMT, "BillL"
wrote: What would worry me is how much Intel could charge for CPU's if they did 'kill' of AMD ( BillL I remember the prices on computers before AMD, and Cyrix where competitors, and there is no way I'd be able to afford a system if prices where still that high. |
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Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD
In comp.sys.intel A Guy Called Tyketto wrote:
In alt.comp.hardware.amd.x86-64 BillL wrote: What would worry me is how much Intel could charge for CPU's if they did 'kill' of AMD ( Picture the days before AMD and Cyrix came out with their 486 and 586-compatible CPUs, and how much they cost back then (with relation to cost of living, etc.). Could be headed back that way. There's always Via; for that matter, there'd be whomever bought up the remains of AMD's IP - I wouldn't expect a whole lot of new processors to take on Intel's latest, but if you look at how old you can get and still have a pretty useable system, current A64 X2 designs if pushed cheaply out of Asian high-volume fabs could probably take Intel on in the low end for long enough for a new competitor to emerge. -- Nate Edel http://www.cubiclehermit.com/ "What's the use of yearning for Elysian Fields when you know you can't get 'em, and would only let 'em out on building leases if you had 'em?" (WSG) |
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Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD
All cross posting removed. I couldn't care less about Intels CPU's.
-- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm |
#9
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Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD
What do you care about?
"Wes Newell" wrote in message news:uz5bi.3728$cx4.155@trnddc07... All cross posting removed. I couldn't care less about Intels CPU's. -- Want the ultimate in free OTA SD/HDTV Recorder? http://mythtv.org http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html Usenet alt.video.ptv.mythtv My server http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/cpu.php HD Tivo S3 compared http://wesnewell.no-ip.com/mythtivo.htm |
#10
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Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD
AirRaid wrote:
another interesting, though speculative Larrabee article: ___________________ Intel's Larrabee: A killer blow for AMD Could Larrabee mean another tortuous time for AMD? Just how much AMD stock did you sell short? -- Bill Davidsen He was a full-time professional cat, not some moonlighting ferret or weasel. He knew about these things. |
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