So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the 6800Gs?

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ...
First of One schrieb:

I think Intel users face a more expensive upgrade, since PCIe support
is tied-in with LGA775 CPU package and DDR2 memory.


Glen wrote about a 3.8GHz P4 which is LGA775 already (there are no
3.8GHz CPUs for SOcket 478). And there are PCIe boards that use DDR
instead of DDS2, so no need to buy new RAM...

In fact it's a 3GHz Northwood P4, socket 478, running at
250FSB 1:1, 3.75GHz.

Point noted about the PCIe/DDR boards, but the issue here is
that *nothing* currently uses the full bandwidth of even AGP8X,
and no one has explained why people with these systems such
as myself should need or want PCIe, except of course to make
motherboard and video card companies rich.

"Andrew" spamtrap@localhost. wrote in message ...
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 08:03:37 GMT, "Glen" wrote:

The bottom line is, ATI's financial bottom line has been in the
****ter ever since they started eliminating AGP models. So
system builders certainly do not account for a majority of
total card sales.

You haven't bothered to read any of their financial statements
recently have you.

As a matter of fact I have, Andy. You obviously haven't:
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/tic...1&I D=5370929

http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=10...828&highlight=

Etc.

Revenues are down $60M from last year. Net loss for the quarter was
$104M. Here's why:

"The primary factor behind the decline was lower sales of performance
and enthusiast desktop products in the Add-in-Board (AIB) and retail
channels."

In other words, the market ain't biting on this PCIe nonsense.

Glen schrieb:

In fact it's a 3GHz Northwood P4, socket 478, running at
250FSB 1:1, 3.75GHz.

So it's an overclocked system....

Point noted about the PCIe/DDR boards, but the issue here is
that *nothing* currently uses the full bandwidth of even AGP8X,
and no one has explained why people with these systems such
as myself should need or want PCIe, except of course to make
motherboard and video card companies rich.

Maybe you should read my posting in which explained why PCIe indeed is
needed again...

Benjamin

Glen schrieb:

Revenues are down $60M from last year. Net loss for the quarter was
$104M. Here's why:

"The primary factor behind the decline was lower sales of performance
and enthusiast desktop products in the Add-in-Board (AIB) and retail
channels."

Correct...

In other words, the market ain't biting on this PCIe nonsense.

That's your interpretation which comes from you aversion against PCIe
but has _zero_ to do with reality...

The losses are because ATI was lacking a comparable gfx solution in the
high end gamer area (the X850 couldn't keep up with Nvidias 7800GT/GTX
series, and the X1x00 cards came delayed)...

Benjamin

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ...
Glen schrieb:

In fact it's a 3GHz Northwood P4, socket 478, running at
250FSB 1:1, 3.75GHz.

So it's an overclocked system....

Point noted about the PCIe/DDR boards, but the issue here is
that *nothing* currently uses the full bandwidth of even AGP8X,
and no one has explained why people with these systems such
as myself should need or want PCIe, except of course to make
motherboard and video card companies rich.

Maybe you should read my posting in which explained why PCIe indeed is
needed again...

Good lord you're full of yourself.

Clueless and arrogant is a nasty combination.

You, Nvidia and ATI can pretend 9 out of 10 computer users
do something that requires PCIe, or AGP8X for that matter,
and it won't make a **** of difference in the reality of the
situation. Financials of these companies will spiral downward
as the gap between what consumers need and what they're
being offered gets larger every year.

And again I'll restate my original advice: buy eBay stock.

Glen schrieb:

Maybe you should read my posting in which explained why PCIe indeed is
needed again...


Good lord you're full of yourself.

Clueless and arrogant is a nasty combination.

You, Nvidia and ATI can pretend 9 out of 10 computer users
do something that requires PCIe, or AGP8X for that matter,
and it won't make a **** of difference in the reality of the
situation. Financials of these companies will spiral downward
as the gap between what consumers need and what they're
being offered gets larger every year.

Another proof that you just didn't understand a single word I wrote,
you're just blindly repeating the same BS again and again. Every further
word is wasted...

Nevertheless Merry Xmas!

EOD

Benjamin

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ...
Glen schrieb:

Maybe you should read my posting in which explained why PCIe indeed is
needed again...


Good lord you're full of yourself.

Clueless and arrogant is a nasty combination.

You, Nvidia and ATI can pretend 9 out of 10 computer users
do something that requires PCIe, or AGP8X for that matter,
and it won't make a **** of difference in the reality of the
situation. Financials of these companies will spiral downward
as the gap between what consumers need and what they're
being offered gets larger every year.

Another proof that you just didn't understand a single word I wrote,

Uh, not even close. First you asked me if I've seen the
latest financials from ATI, implying they're making money
-- which they aren't --, then you sidestep the entire issue
of whether the industry needs a new bus standard for
video when it can't even make full use of the old one.

you're just blindly repeating the same BS again and again.

Right back at ya. Bottom line: for ATI and Nvidia to just
slam the door on the 85% of the market who still has AGP
video is nothing short of outrageous. You can try and dolly
up that fact as much as you want, it's still an incredibly ****ty
way to treat loyal customers.

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message
...
Glen schrieb:

Absolutely outrageous. As if I'm about to trash a $2,000
P4 3.8MHz computer just to upgrade a ****ing video card.

Why should you trash the whole computer? Simply get a new mainboard
instead...

Benjamin

some people have off the shelf name brand systems that won't let you easily
do that, AYWK mate! With homebrew stuff, no big deal. $100 gets a fairly
usable PCI-e mobo now.
McG.

"Larry Roberts" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 20:35:49 +0100, Benjamin Gawert
wrote:

oldwolf schrieb:

Why do you say that?? My amd 3200 wont fit in a s939 board,

You have an Athlon XP?

and Im not
throwing away 2gig of ram just to upgrade the vid card.
I can play fear, and cod2, and others, quite nicely at the moment, with
a
6600gt. got no problems with fps, or stuttering, or any thing else.
Sure I would like to go up to a supercard, but I aint ditching
everything.
(for a start the missus would kill me. ;-) )

Well, a 6800GT/Ultra AGP is probably the maximum that is useful with an
Athlon XP that has several performance bottlenecks. A 7800GTX would be
wasted...

That's a good example for what I said: it's not really a problem that
new cards are PCIe. For your system an ATI X800 or Nvidia Geforce
6800GT/Ultra would be more than enough. Everything higher would require
a faster computer to be useful...

Benjamin

What if I already had a 6800GT, and didn't want to move up to
a 7800GT/GTX just yet, but did want a new Athlon64, or FX CPU. There
are a good many Socket 939 boards with AGP.

That situation is exactly what I was in this past August. There are a lot
of Socket 939 boards around now and quite a few are AGP. PCI-e seems more
plentiful though and their cost is about even with AGP versions. Right now
is a great time to go PCI-e, but you don't have to. I chose to keep using
a very new eVGA 6800GT 256 meg, so I chose a Gigabyte socket 939 AGP board.
Fine board too. I've just now started thinking about building a second AMD
64 rig, for the living room I'll have to get a PCI-e board and PCI-e
vid card, likely a 7800gtx 512meg.
This really gave me the room to stretch and relax
McG.

"Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message
...
Larry Roberts schrieb:

What if I already had a 6800GT, and didn't want to move up to
a 7800GT/GTX just yet, but did want a new Athlon64, or FX CPU. There
are a good many Socket 939 boards with AGP.

If you had a 6800GT AGP, and want upgrade to A64, then buying a S939 AGP
board would just be plain stupid. The better way would be to sell the
6800GT AGP (you get a helluva money for them now that AGP has deceased!)
and get a PCIe gfx card, most probably the money you get for the AGP card
would be enough to get a 6800GT/U PCIe...

Benjamin

Hm. Some of us have other ideas for what to do during and somewhat because
of the demise of AGP. I can use a better 2nd rig than I have running right
now. It's a P3 800 with 98SE. I'd also like to do some gaming on it but
the games I want to play need more than this rig has. So...my plan is
playing out like clockwork so far.

I had a P4 3.0E with 2 gigs PC3200 and my 6800GT. I had the itch, and
scratched it with a A64 X2 4800+ (gave up a LOT of green stuff for that
ointment! ), GA K9NS Ultra 939 (AGP, nForce3 Ultra), 2 gigs PC3200, and put
the 6800GT in this kit. I put an old but very reliable GF4 Ti4600-128 in
the P4-3.0E rig and used two older hd's for 100gigs hd space and XP Home.
Gave that one to my oldest dotter for a personal graphics workstation. Does
very well for that.

I want to get a PCI-e socket 939 mobo, another 2 gigs of ram and a lesser
A64 cpu, like a s939 A64 3800+, and a PCI-e 7800GTX 512 meg vid card. There
will be two resulting rigs.

1) A64 X2 4800+, s939 PCI-e mobo, 2 gigs ram (ddr2 yet for these?), 7800GTX
512, XP Pro x64. 2 19" LCD flat panels both on DVI.
This will be the main rig for my use on my desk. Gaming and graphics.

2) A64 3800+, GA K8NS Ultra 939 AGP, 2 gigs PC3200, eVGA 6800GT 256, XP Pro
x64. 1 17" LCD flat panel on analog VGA.
This will be the 2nd rig for everyones use in the LR on a computer cart.

I haven't made the move to SATA yet. Still have a bunch of PATA ide drives
to play with. Will likely put 1 SATA 250g or better in the X2 box. Will
also likely partition it for using both XP x64 and Linux 64.

Sound like a plan? Does to me! Socket M isn't anywhere in sight yet, and I
already have the X2 and some other stuff. I think I can complete this with
right at $1000 USD for all the parts I'll need.

Merry Christmas EVERYONE!!!!
Michael
McG.