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#1
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the 6800Gs?
This is what I read over on Rage3d. That sucks. Really sucks.
-- Doug |
#2
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the6800Gs?
pigdos schrieb:
This is what I read over on Rage3d. That sucks. Really sucks. I don't understand your point. First, Nvidia makes _GPUs_ (ICs), not videocards. Second, they stopped production of GPUs with native AGP interface, but board makers still can make AGP cards by using the AGP-PCIe brigde chip. Third, AGP is dead. The current crop of AGP cards is still fast enough for the latest AGP systems, and next generation cards also want a faster system that will have PCIe. So what? Benjamin |
#3
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the 6800Gs?
Benjamin Gawert wrote in news:412422F1d1adlU1
@individual.net: pigdos schrieb: This is what I read over on Rage3d. That sucks. Really sucks. I don't understand your point. First, Nvidia makes _GPUs_ (ICs), not videocards. Second, they stopped production of GPUs with native AGP interface, but board makers still can make AGP cards by using the AGP-PCIe brigde chip. Third, AGP is dead. The current crop of AGP cards is still fast enough for the latest AGP systems, and next generation cards also want a faster system that will have PCIe. So what? You make some excellent points Benjamin, however I'm still a little confused as to why AGP has been ditched so quickly. GPU's still can't consume the AGP 8x bandwidth. It all seems a bit pushy by the developers to move everyone for monetary purposes. It almost seems like hardware developers are thinking that AGP was too good to begin with and has held back money making opportunities. |
#4
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the 6800Gs?
"Dean Jarratt" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Benjamin Gawert wrote in news:412422F1d1adlU1 @individual.net: pigdos schrieb: This is what I read over on Rage3d. That sucks. Really sucks. I don't understand your point. First, Nvidia makes _GPUs_ (ICs), not videocards. Second, they stopped production of GPUs with native AGP interface, but board makers still can make AGP cards by using the AGP-PCIe brigde chip. Third, AGP is dead. The current crop of AGP cards is still fast enough for the latest AGP systems, and next generation cards also want a faster system that will have PCIe. So what? You make some excellent points Benjamin, however I'm still a little confused as to why AGP has been ditched so quickly. GPU's still can't consume the AGP 8x bandwidth. It all seems a bit pushy by the developers to move everyone for monetary purposes. It almost seems like hardware developers are thinking that AGP was too good to begin with and has held back money making opportunities. Yeah, they force us to buy new hardware. The only advantage of PCIe is IMHO the possibility of SLI. I am using my 6800gt on a crappy 4xAGP board...the difference to 8xAGP is 5%. Cu, Michael |
#5
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the6800Gs?
Dean Jarratt wrote:
You make some excellent points Benjamin, however I'm still a little confused as to why AGP has been ditched so quickly. GPU's still can't consume the AGP 8x bandwidth. That's exactly the point, no AGP system ever practically used all the available bandwidth. Even 8X. There were fundamental obstacles to overcome in the AGP architecture that were bottlenecks to performance. Plus, the entire system performance suffered from legacy interfaces like PCI. PCIE provides far more total system bandwidth and the ability to actually carry it, not just over the graphics bus. Advances like the NForce architecture and the last KT400's were about the best you would ever get in AGP. It seems very silly to put something like a Athlon 64 X2 4200 in a system where both memory and graphics performance would be limited by the system itself. There was very little return for increasing processor and FSB speeds on AGP systems. |
#6
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the6800Gs?
Dean Jarratt schrieb:
You make some excellent points Benjamin, however I'm still a little confused as to why AGP has been ditched so quickly. GPU's still can't consume the AGP 8x bandwidth. No, AGP 4x would be still fast enough... It all seems a bit pushy by the developers to move everyone for monetary purposes. It almost seems like hardware developers are thinking that AGP was too good to begin with and has held back money making opportunities. You ignore that unlike AGP PCIe is not only for gfx cards. The problem with AGP PCs is not the gfx interface (AGP) but the slow shared bus (PCI) which is needed for expension boards. PCI _is_ a limiting factor already, and the PCI enhancements (PCI64, PCI-X) have a higher bandwidth but still suffer from the same problem (shared bus). So there was a need for something really new, even when most home users didn't reach the limits. Unlike AGP (which basically is just a faster PCI interface) and PCI which both are parallel busses PCIe is a serial point-to-point connection with accumulated bandwidth (which means you can combine several lanes to increase bandwidth). That means PCIe devices don't have to share bandwidth with other devices. Of course this also has advantages to gfx cards while AGP is a single card system only which also has several limitations and bottlenecks. So it's clear that at some point simply a cut was necessary because the limitations through PCI weren't getting better over time... And honestly, I see no problem. Of course the majority of old systems are AGP but what do you expect? It's not a PCIe specific problem that doing an upgrade often comes with the need for upgrading other components. Want examples? CPU too slow - new CPU has new socket or different FSB - new mobo that supports CPU. Oops, the new mobo also wants new RAM because the old RAM is too slow or also from a different type (i.e. SDRAM). So that means buying new RAM, too. And after You're done with that you probably find that the HD also is slow and that it's better if the new disk you gonna buy doesn't has parallel ATA but SATA because your new mobo has two or four ports waiting for a fast drive. And so on... I know that lots of people are upset because AGP is dead. But then, the AGP cards that are still available (ATI X800 class or GF6800 series) are more than fast enough even for the fastest AGP systems. Cards like the 7800GTX or ATI X1800 also want a system that has a fast CPU and also a fast bus system (i.e. memory interface), otherwise most of the potential of these cards is just wasted as is the money that has been spent for them. And for people that have an older computer from i.e. the Athlon XP generation or a socket 478 P4 every upgrade would also mean new mobo which should be PCIe... Benjamin |
#7
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the 6800Gs?
Currently 70% of the graphics card sold are AGP.
So AGP is still a money maker for NVIDIA and ATI. "Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... pigdos schrieb: This is what I read over on Rage3d. That sucks. Really sucks. I don't understand your point. First, Nvidia makes _GPUs_ (ICs), not videocards. Second, they stopped production of GPUs with native AGP interface, but board makers still can make AGP cards by using the AGP-PCIe brigde chip. Third, AGP is dead. The current crop of AGP cards is still fast enough for the latest AGP systems, and next generation cards also want a faster system that will have PCIe. So what? Benjamin |
#8
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the6800Gs?
tod schrieb:
Currently 70% of the graphics card sold are AGP. So AGP is still a money maker for NVIDIA and ATI. Thats BS. Over 80% of sales ATI and Nvidia make comes from system builders, and these are using PCIe only for over a year now. Benjamin |
#9
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the 6800Gs?
Maybe it is 70% of retail sales?
"Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... tod schrieb: Currently 70% of the graphics card sold are AGP. So AGP is still a money maker for NVIDIA and ATI. Thats BS. Over 80% of sales ATI and Nvidia make comes from system builders, and these are using PCIe only for over a year now. Benjamin |
#10
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So Nvidia has cancelled production of ALL AGP cards except the 6800Gs?
The bottom line is, ATI's financial bottom line has been in the
****ter ever since they started eliminating AGP models. So system builders certainly do not account for a majority of total card sales. "tod" wrote in message ink.net... Maybe it is 70% of retail sales? "Benjamin Gawert" wrote in message ... tod schrieb: Currently 70% of the graphics card sold are AGP. So AGP is still a money maker for NVIDIA and ATI. Thats BS. Over 80% of sales ATI and Nvidia make comes from system builders, and these are using PCIe only for over a year now. Benjamin |
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