Canon CLI-8 ink cartridges from eBay - do they work?

"Francis Fronzaglia" wrote in message
...

They beg you to buy their cheap printers (prices constantly dropping)
and then grab you by the balls (removing printer features) when you
decide to use alternative inks to their hugely over-priced ones. That
should not be allowed. That's like buying a coffee kettle of a certain
brand (Haxwell Mouse) that will only show how much water is in it
provided you buy their brand of coffee that costs 10 to 20 times more
than no name coffee. Makes no sense! How can that even be legal?

Except the way that the low on ink indicators work on most printers is that
they know how much ink the cartridge starts with, then they count how many
drops they spit out (either on paper or in servicing). Based on the few
things they know they can do a reasonable job of estimating the remaining
ink.

In the case of a refill they cannot do this, since they have no way of
knowing how much ink the refiller put in the cartridge. Maybe the refiller
puts in the same amount of ink, but they may put in more or less. The ink
gauge cannot be accurate in this case, and to provide an inaccurate gauge
would lead to various other issues.

- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

"Bob Headrick" wrote in message
...
"Francis Fronzaglia" wrote in message
...

They beg you to buy their cheap printers (prices constantly dropping)
and then grab you by the balls (removing printer features) when you
decide to use alternative inks to their hugely over-priced ones. That
should not be allowed. That's like buying a coffee kettle of a certain
brand (Haxwell Mouse) that will only show how much water is in it
provided you buy their brand of coffee that costs 10 to 20 times more
than no name coffee. Makes no sense! How can that even be legal?

Except the way that the low on ink indicators work on most printers is
that they know how much ink the cartridge starts with, then they count how
many drops they spit out (either on paper or in servicing). Based on the
few things they know they can do a reasonable job of estimating the
remaining ink.

In the case of a refill they cannot do this, since they have no way of
knowing how much ink the refiller put in the cartridge. Maybe the
refiller puts in the same amount of ink, but they may put in more or less.
The ink gauge cannot be accurate in this case, and to provide an
inaccurate gauge would lead to various other issues.

- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging



If you knew anything at all about Canon printers, you wouldn't have posted
this.

"Bob Headrick" wrote in message
...
"Francis Fronzaglia" wrote in message
...

They beg you to buy their cheap printers (prices constantly dropping)
and then grab you by the balls (removing printer features) when you
decide to use alternative inks to their hugely over-priced ones. That
should not be allowed. That's like buying a coffee kettle of a certain
brand (Haxwell Mouse) that will only show how much water is in it
provided you buy their brand of coffee that costs 10 to 20 times more
than no name coffee. Makes no sense! How can that even be legal?

Except the way that the low on ink indicators work on most printers is
that they know how much ink the cartridge starts with, then they count how
many drops they spit out (either on paper or in servicing). Based on the
few things they know they can do a reasonable job of estimating the
remaining ink.

In the case of a refill they cannot do this, since they have no way of
knowing how much ink the refiller put in the cartridge. Maybe the
refiller puts in the same amount of ink, but they may put in more or less.
The ink gauge cannot be accurate in this case, and to provide an
inaccurate gauge would lead to various other issues.

- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging


Bob - In the case of the individual color Canon cartridges that have been
used in the last six or so years (or more - I have only been using Canon
printers for about four years) there is an optical sensor that indicates
when the reservoir section is empty. The ink monitor on screen then shows
that the ink level is low. There is then a fairly crude countdown of ink
used for the next few prints after which the monitor signals that the cart
is out of ink. As is the case with other inkjet printers there is still
some ink left in the sponge side of the cart as a safety margin for
preventing printhead damage if it were tocompletely run dry. When the cart
that has signaled low or empty is replaced by another cart (Canon assumes
that you are replacing it with a new fresh OEM cart) the ink monitor shows
that the cart is full. Even if you should put a refilled cart in place that
has only enough ink in it to cover the prism at the bottom of the reservoir
section it will show full. Once the reservoir section is empty, however,
you will get the low ink message. This happens when the prism is no longer
submerged in ink.

What Francis is discussing is the new Canon carts with the chip installed.
Refilling these carts works just fine as far as printing is concerned. The
printer, however, recognizes the cart as empty due to the chip and lets you
know that you will lose your warranty if you continue to print with a
refilled cart. I am not discussing if that is appropriate or not - what is
inappropriate is the fact that Canon then disables the optical sensor system
so you must visually inspect the refilled carts periodically to avoid
running them dry and ruining the printhead. They actually contribute to the
potential destruction of your printhead - absolutely a punative measure to
force the use of new OEM ink carts.

There are absolutely some junk inks out there. There are, however, several
brands of ink that cause no damage to the printer or printhead. The user
may chose to use aftermarket inks and accept the possibility that these inks
are less fade resistant than OEM inks. Should Canon still warranty their
printheads if the printers are used with aftermarket inks? That is their
call. They should not, however use punative measures that have no purpose
except to damage your printhead by disabling the safety measure built in to
the carts (refilled or not), the printer, and the ink monitor software.

DanG wrote:

"Victek" wrote in message ...



Good information - thanks - but does moving the chip to a different tank work? And regardless of which tank the chip is on does the printer have to be reset in some way to read the ink levels correctly?



Makes no difference whether you refill or move the chip to a new tank, the printer's ink level system must be disabled to continue printing with that chip.


It makes a big difference if you would use Canon OEM ink.

Victek wrote:
Replacement ink cartridges for the Pixma MP 530 are very affordable
on eBay.

Not really. As a matter of fact they are very expensive. You can
ruin the printhead, produce low quality prints and have many that
fade quickly. Now that to me is expensive.

FWIW, I've been using generic ink cartridges in my Epson Stylus Color
880 for years without problems. This was one of the last printers
that didn't implement chips on the cartridges so using generics
doesn't involve any gymnastics. I would agree that the "no-names" are
not as good as the OEM carts, but for the printing I do that doesn't
require either color accuracy or longevity the value cannot be beat.

Well if you print a lot and it does not clog the printhead because of
that then continue. At least you admit that the no names do not provide
the quality that the OEM ink does. You cannot say that about many of
the idiots that post in this forum who just lie thru their teeth. Maybe
some are penniless kids and others are old farts that are trying to
stretch their social security.

Francis Fronzaglia wrote:
"Burt" wrote in
t:


"Victek" wrote in message
. net...

Good information - thanks - but does moving the chip to a different
tank work? And regardless of which tank the chip is on does the
printer have to be reset in some way to read the ink levels
correctly?

Makes no difference whether you refill or move the chip to a new
tank, the printer's ink level system must be disabled to continue
printing with that chip.

Yes, that is the magic question that no one has addressed so far. Is
it not polite to "go on record" about how the printer's ink level
system is disabled?

disabling the ink monitor is (pardon the expression) Canon's little
F___ You for refilling! So far, no one that I know of has been able
to circumvent this problem or restore the monitoring system except by
going back to the use of OEM Canon carts.







They beg you to buy their cheap printers (prices constantly dropping)
and then grab you by the balls (removing printer features) when you
decide to use alternative inks to their hugely over-priced ones. That
should not be allowed. That's like buying a coffee kettle of a certain
brand (Haxwell Mouse) that will only show how much water is in it
provided you buy their brand of coffee that costs 10 to 20 times more
than no name coffee.

People who buy quality ink like Canon, HP or Epson who want to reduce
the risk of printhead cloggging, fading and have better print quality
for photos most likely pay a little more and drink Starbucks coffee.
The other idiots go to the supermarket and drink coffee from China.
They probably get their toothpaste from there and USED TO feed their dog
that wonderful imported dog food.
Makes no sense! How can that even be legal? If I
email this to Canon will they send their men in white coats to take my 4
Canon printers away and make me pay them the several thousand dollars
I've saved over the years by not using their unaffordable inks???

Francis Fronzaglia

Stick Stickus wrote:

"Frank" wrote in message ...



measekite wrote: ----lies...and more lies--- How fukkin dumb are you anyway? Frank



I get my cartridges refilled AND the chips reset at my local Cartridge World in Oxford, UK. I understand that the ink they use is formulated and supplied by OCP Inks from Germany.

Most of the reviews that you can trust do not agree with those opinions.  CW used to claim they used Sensinent ink.  Who really know.


In a recent invetigation by Trusted Reviews .com www.trustedreviews.com Cartridge World refilled cartidges were preferred over oem cartridges. I have had no problems using this company and lose none of the functionality of the chips either. Stick

"DanG" wrote in message
...

"Bob Headrick" wrote in message
[snip]
In the case of a refill they cannot do this, since they have no way of
knowing how much ink the refiller put in the cartridge. Maybe the
refiller puts in the same amount of ink, but they may put in more or
less. The ink gauge cannot be accurate in this case, and to provide an
inaccurate gauge would lead to various other issues.

If you knew anything at all about Canon printers, you wouldn't have posted
this.

Do not presume how much I know about Canon printers. The Canon printers do
have an optical system that gives a signal when the ink level is down to
about 15% remaining. Older Canon printers did not have an ink gauge, they
simply gave the user a signal when the prism indicated the main (free
liquid) chamber was depleted. There were various customer complaints with
this system, as there was no warning before the "you are nearly empty"
message. [You could have seen those complaints in this newsgroup a few
years ago.] In more recent printers they provide an ink gauge based on
knowing when a new cartridge is installed, how much ink they put in and
various factors about printing and servicing. They then estimate ink
remaining, and correct this at the point the prism indicates actual low ink.

For the recent printers they cannot provide a reasonable gauge during life
for third party cartridges since they do not know the initial ink. They
could have an alternate warning based on the older system to accommodate
these cartridges, but that would require more firmware and testing. They
are in a no-win situation - if they provide an inaccurate gauge folks will
complain, if they disable the [inaccurate] gauge folks will complain.

- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging

:
there is an optical sensor that indicates
when the reservoir section is empty. The ink monitor on screen then shows
that the ink level is low.
:
Even if you should put a refilled cart in place that
has only enough ink in it to cover the prism at the bottom of the reservoir
section it will show full. Once the reservoir section is empty, however,
you will get the low ink message. This happens when the prism is no longer
submerged in ink.
:
Besides the prism, CLI-8 / PGI-5 cartridges have another optical sensing
system that involves the tapered light guide at the front of the
cartridge. The top of this guide reflects the light outwards through the
small dark grey window to a sensor that is mounted left just behind the
front of the printer, in my case an ip4300. See
http://members.lycos.nl/dmjbijzboek/...ide-sensor.jpg

As an experiment, I removed the light guide to obtain a free view to the
ink level while the cartridge is mounted in the printer. Works great,
even better when you remove part of the clip also. See
http://members.lycos.nl/dmjbijzboek/...8-inklevel.jpg

With a refilled cartridge, it was initially reported as completely
empty, but printing was possible by pressing the resume button.
Later on, it reported "low ink level", printing proceeded normally.
Eventually it reported that the ink level could not be established and I
had to press the resume button 5 seconds to switch off the ink
monitoring system. Printing proceeds still normally and visual checking
the ink level is a snap.

Since the printer never reported a refilled cartridge, I think the
second sensor has something to do with that.
It is a rather leaky light guide, hence the amount of light that falls
on the sensor depends on the amount of light that is reflected back from
the reservoir and that may be dependent on the ink level. Any better
ideas?

I installed another nodified refilled cartridge, same story, currently
it is reported as "low ink level".
My conclusion is that switching off the ink monitoring system does not
matter if it is replaced by the visual ink level inspection.
When the reservoir is empty, there is ample tine to refill it again,
because the foam still holds plenty of ink.

By the way, I use the "German method" for refilling. See a.o.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2465



--
Have fun, Bert

measekite wrote:

Victek wrote:
Replacement ink cartridges for the Pixma MP 530 are very affordable
on eBay.

Not really. As a matter of fact they are very expensive. You can
ruin the printhead, produce low quality prints and have many that
fade quickly. Now that to me is expensive.

FWIW, I've been using generic ink cartridges in my Epson Stylus Color
880 for years without problems. This was one of the last printers
that didn't implement chips on the cartridges so using generics
doesn't involve any gymnastics. I would agree that the "no-names" are
not as good as the OEM carts, but for the printing I do that doesn't
require either color accuracy or longevity the value cannot be beat.

Well if you print a lot and it does not clog the printhead because of
that then continue. At least you admit that the no names do not provide
the quality that the OEM ink does. You cannot say that about many of
the idiots that post in this forum who just lie thru their teeth. Maybe
some are penniless kids and others are old farts that are trying to
stretch their social security.

No money to get a life??

--
Have fun, Bert