Refill inks permanence test

If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

From the report:
"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found he
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hard...sts2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com

whatcartridge.com wrote:
If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

From the report:
"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found he
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hard...sts2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com



I have high quality projects printed with aftermarket inks put away from
over 10 years ago. I don't see any fading, or signs of fading. I assume
they'll easily match or exceed Canon's limited 16 year life span. Then
again, anything printed lasts only as long as you protect it, so I
assume you're talking of an unprotected photograph/graphic. When I got
my first Canon, I printed a photo with OEM inks on PhotoPaper Pro paper
(they give you with the printer) and left it on a cabinet in the
kitchen. Within a month it had turned an ugly greenish-yellow, losing
over 50% of its color. However, I have every confidence that my
treasured projects, put away for safekeeping, will be around many years
from now - maybe even outlive me. By then, who cares.

-Taliesyn

just what i have been saying all along. in addition to the mess,
clogging and ruining printers the generic inks now fade and ruin the photos.

so says
pcworld
pcmag
and now the respected wilhelm


this borders on sacreligious. it must be the divinci code for generic inks

whatcartridge.com wrote:

If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

From the report:
"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.


and none of them disclose what they are selling so yo never know what
you are getting

The full Wilhelm report can be found he
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hard...sts2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com

Taliesyn wrote:

whatcartridge.com wrote:

If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

From the report:

"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found he
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hard...sts2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com



I have high quality projects printed with aftermarket inks put away from
over 10 years ago.

wilhelm is a respected independent. you are a high school student that
is about 16years old. so you are talking about your prints where you
were refilling printers when you were 6 years old. that was before they
had inkjets.

I don't see any fading, or signs of fading. I assume
they'll easily match or exceed Canon's limited 16 year life span. Then
again, anything printed lasts only as long as you protect it, so I
assume you're talking of an unprotected photograph/graphic. When I got
my first Canon, I printed a photo with OEM inks on PhotoPaper Pro paper
(they give you with the printer) and left it on a cabinet in the
kitchen. Within a month it had turned an ugly greenish-yellow, losing
over 50% of its color.

i did the same thing and no problem. it must be all that global warming
where you live

However, I have every confidence that my
treasured projects, put away for safekeeping, will be around many years
from now - maybe even outlive me.

oh yeah that might be true if you keep stabbing yourself with those
needles.

By then, who cares.

i agree with that


-Taliesyn

"whatcartridge.com" wrote in message
oups.com...
If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

From the report:
"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found he
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hard...sts2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com


Check out the Nifty-Stuff Forum project on ink permanance. Admittedly not
as well controlled as Willhelm's, but still some good info on some of the
inks that refillers are using. While Canon OEM ink did have more fade
resistance to the UV source that was used in the evaluation, the
differential in fade resistance between the OEM and aftermarket refill inks
tested wasn't as extreme as was mentioned in this post. BTW, my well
protected prints with Canon MIS refilled carts on Kirkland Glossy photo
paper look beautiful after two years. They are framed behind glass and are
not in direct sunlight. Prints in albums have fared as well.

Burt wrote:
"whatcartridge.com" wrote in message
oups.com...
If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

From the report:
"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found he
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hard...sts2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com


Check out the Nifty-Stuff Forum project on ink permanance. Admittedly not
as well controlled as Willhelm's, but still some good info on some of the
inks that refillers are using. While Canon OEM ink did have more fade
resistance to the UV source that was used in the evaluation, the
differential in fade resistance between the OEM and aftermarket refill inks
tested wasn't as extreme as was mentioned in this post. BTW, my well
protected prints with Canon MIS refilled carts on Kirkland Glossy photo
paper look beautiful after two years. They are framed behind glass and are
not in direct sunlight. Prints in albums have fared as well.

As I said, there are probably a lot of aftermarket inks that will do
better than those in the test.

In the article Wilhelm says he was prompted to carry out the test
because of claims by some suppliers that their inks were "just as good
as OEM ink". In the areas of colour etc they are quite close to
original, but Wilhelm argues that permanence is important and that's
where they fail. Fair enough.

If someone gets their inks refilled at Caboodle or Cartridge World and
expect the ink to be the same as OEM, they are mistaken. Maybe even
false advertising by the companies mentioned?

There are no aftermarket ink that can outperform the OEM as far as
image longevity. If you are looking for the best quality at any price
there is only 1 choice the OEM.

Where aftermarket inks outperform the OEM is in price. Quality pre
filled cartridges can cost as much as 70% less than the OEM, and 90%
less for bulk ink.

I use a CISS on my Epson R300. when I first bought it I sold the OEM
cartridges, and purchased 3.5 liters of ink, 500 mg for each colour and
1 liter for the black. I recently purchased my second batch of ink.

The OEM black cartridge cost about $20.00 and contains about 15 ml of
usable ink. the bulk black ink I purchased cost about $50.00 and
contains 1000 ml. that's a savings of more than $1250.00 on the black
cartridge alone. I took the extra money and bought a R800, sold the OEM
cartridges and bought a CISS and some bulk pigment ink.

whatcartridge.com wrote:

Burt wrote:


"whatcartridge.com" wrote in message
groups.com...


If you are in any way interested in printing quality photos on your
inkjet, you should know about Wilhelm Imaging Research.

Henry Wilhelm is the acknowledged world leader in ink permanence
research. He tests inks and papers to see how long they last before
fading, in all sorts of conditions.

Recently he tested third party inks from several common suppliers -
including Island Inkjet, Carrot Ink, Staples, Office Depot, Office Max,
Caboodle Cartridge and Cartridge World. These were either third party
or refilled cartridges.

Typical was the results for BCI-6 cartridges:
Genuine Canon BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 16 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Kodak Ultra
Premium Photo Paper" - 1.1 years
Carrot Ink compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper
Pro PR-101" - 1.6 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Island Ink-Jet
Professional Quality Photo Paper" - 1.8 years
Island Ink-Jet compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.2 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Staples Photo Supreme
Paper" - 2.4 years
Staples compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo Paper Pro
PR-101" - 0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Cartridge
World Photo Lab Quality Glossy Photo Paper" -
0.6 years
Cartridge World compatible BCI-6 photo inks printed on "Canon Photo
Paper Pro PR-101" - 0.3 years

From the report:
"...not everyone agrees with all the results that come out of the lab
in Grinnell. We expect some aftermarket ink manufacturers will dispute
its most recent findings. Although Wilhelm acknowledges that there is
some debate about WIR's methodology, he insists it is sound. "There
are no ISO or ANSI standards for permanence, so our company's
standard has become the de facto industry standard.""

Also pertinent is:
"Wilhelm contends that the market will ultimately decide the merits of
the aftermarket
value proposition. "The market will work these things out," he says
confidently. While
he is well aware that a segment of the population is willing to
sacrifice on quality in order
to save on price, Wilhelm is concerned that many consumers are simply
unaware of how
much they are giving up when they purchase the aftermarket products
currently available."

While there are some aftermarket inks out there that have vastly
superior permanence to the inks tested by Wilhelm Research, it's the
volume sellers that people will judge aftermarket inks as a whole on.

The full Wilhelm report can be found he
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hard...sts2006_05.pdf

James Sodor
www.whatcartridge.com



Check out the Nifty-Stuff Forum project

this is a cult of generic relabelers and refillers slapping each other
on the back. who are you going to believe people who have a monetary
interest or an organization that sets the standard for this kind of
testing along with 2 reputable magazines like pc world and pc mag and do
not forget consumer reports.

on ink permanance. Admittedly not
as well controlled as Willhelm's, but still some good info on some of the
inks that refillers are using. While


Canon OEM ink did have more fade
resistance


snip too long

As I said, there are probably a lot of aftermarket inks that will do
better than those in the test.

In the article Wilhelm says he was prompted to carry out the test
because of claims by some suppliers that their inks were "just as good
as OEM ink".

we all know those are false claims. these relabelers will not even
disclose who the mfg/formulator is.

In the areas of colour etc they are quite close to
original, but Wilhelm argues that permanence is important and that's
where they fail. Fair enough.


and wilhelm did not address the issue of clogging

If someone gets their inks refilled at Caboodle or Cartridge World and
expect the ink to be the same as OEM, they are mistaken. Maybe even
false advertising by the companies mentioned?



now why can't the cult admit the truths that you just said.

Hendo wrote:

There are no aftermarket ink that can outperform the OEM as far as
image longevity. If you are looking for the best quality at any price
there is only 1 choice the OEM.




snip

that is very true. of course the generics are cheaper. beef chuck is
cheaper than fillet mignon. a yugo is cheaper than a lexus.

they are not in the same class and should not be compared..

Measekite, you need a life...BAD. I viewed your profile...5476 messages

in 1 year...OH MY GOD. Talk about TYPE-ARRHEA. More than 15 messages a
day...everyday...Just on Google!!! WOW!!!! DUDE YOU NEED A
LIFE...BBBBBBAAAAADDDDDD.