Paper Quality

On 16 Jan 2006 07:04:31 -0800, A strange species called "zakezuke"
wrote:

For those on the other side of the Atlantic, when you go and buy a pint
in the pub you get short changed too, since ours is 20 fluid ounces as
opposed to your 16

Such sillyness with measurments. It does make me wish that we went
metric rather than imperial... at least metric was a standard wher
emperial decided to change. Either that or we got it wrong, not sure
on that point. But I don't feel I get short changed in pubs. I have a
choice between a glass (12oz) and pint (16oz) or either an imperial
pint (20oz) or a mondo pint (22 or 24oz). Bottles I buy are either the
12oz size, or the 20 to 24 range though typicaly 22. I've seen 8oz and
10oz though only for lucky lager or mickey's big mouth.

Forgot about beer being imperial still. I don't drink beer though,
mainly vodka so I forgot that one. Usually the odd occasion I have
beer its from a bottle.

Also in the US their gallons are slightly less than ours. I believe
they are 3.8 litres to 1 US gallon, whereas here it is 4.55 litres to
a UK gallon. Despite the difference, and even with fuel prices in the
US high by American standards they still get it a lot cheaper than we
do ;(

I've got to admit the regular drinks you can get in the US you can get
bottles of coke etc in lots of different sizes. Here you would have a
330ml can, then the 500ml bottle. Next up it would be 1 or 1.5 litres.
2 litres and 3 litre bottles. I think in the States they get 355ml
cans, 600ml bottles, and so on for lower prices than we get lesser
amounts.

John

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:53:30 GMT, A strange species called Ken Weitzel
wrote:



John wrote:
Hi. I am just after some advice on A4 paper.

I don't know too much about the different grades and weights, but what
I am looking for at the moment is something that is really good
quality and will allow me to print on both sides of the paper without
the ink showing through to the other side and without the paper
curling after it has been printed on.

Regular cheap office paper (I think this is 80gsm whatever gsm means!)
is no good for this. I have been using white card, which does what I
want however it takes twice as long to print on white card and it
costs a lot more for the card and the ink.

I would really like something that would still be classed as paper and
can be sucked through my printer on sheet feed instead of manual
(without any jams), but obviously is more heavy weight than regular
paper, were the ink can't be seen through the paper and it doesn't
cost a lot to buy.

What should I be looking for? Can you recommend what grade of paper
would fit this purpose and were I can buy cheaply?

Thanks for any recommendations

John

Hi John...

With all due respect, you haven't made the mistake that many
newbies (myself included) make, have you?

That is... try to get better quality prints by telling the printer
that you're using better paper than you in fact are?

I ask because, if you put in plain paper and then select for instance
photo quality, the result will be horrendously excess ink, which will
saturate the paper, ruining it and wasting gobs of ink.

If you put in plain paper, select plain paper

Take care.

Ken

Yes I have been doing that mate. The problem is that it was cheap
office paper probably 80gsm, and I was printing two sides, one side
was a photo the other test (using pretty much the entire scope of the
paper (almost edge to edge), but I was printing it using the lowest
settings for plain paper, either draft or just text mode.

I have been using white card on the heavyweight paper setting, but
that is too time consuming because I have to manually feed each one to
avoid jams, and it also uses more ink. This is why I wanted to find a
high quality paper especially for colour ink jet printing.

John

Thanks for all the helps guys.

What is a ream? Is that a pack of 500 sheets?

I went to Staples today in Leeds at lunchtime and was going to buy
some paper. I was a little disappointed because they had 80, 90 and
100g but no 120g. The next weight was 160g.

They did have some Epson paper at 90g which I was going to buy and
just see if it did the job, it was on special offer at £4-99 for 500
sheets, but I was waiting in the queue for something like 10 minutes,
they only had one person on the till serving and she was taking her
time so I just put it back and walked out. I had to get back for work.

I'm glad I didn't get it though because the paper I have used I
believe is 80g and if that is showing through on two sided printing
and curling, I'm sure this would as well as it is not much heavier.

I don't really need a double coated paper because I just really need
to print the photo on one side and basic text on the other. I don't
need to print the photo with any of the best settings, just a low
quality setting that uses less ink is all I need to do it with.

I ended up going to another stationary shop in Leeds after work and
got some 100gsm ink jet paper. I just got 100 sheets, but will give
this a try and see if it is any good. Then I will be able to tell
whether I really need 120gsm or can drop to 90 or stick with 100.

I will have to check out the Viking Direct paper that has been
recommended. The trouble with buying online though is that the
postage costs will make it quite expensive unless you are buying lots
of other things at the same time or bulk buying.

One final thing, I just wondered if any places here in the UK sell
paper in the "Legal" size? It is a little bit bigger than A4 size at
21.60x35.55 (8.5x14"). I think this size could be quite useful for
certain things, like printing out web pages etc.

Cheers

John

In message , John
writes
I will have to check out the Viking Direct paper that has been
recommended. The trouble with buying online though is that the
postage costs will make it quite expensive unless you are buying lots
of other things at the same time or bulk buying.

Once you get to thirty quid with viking its free delivery, even below
that I don't think its much.

--
Timothy

I've got to admit the regular drinks you can get in the US you can get
bottles of coke etc in lots of different sizes. Here you would have a
330ml can, then the 500ml bottle. Next up it would be 1 or 1.5 litres.
2 litres and 3 litre bottles. I think in the States they get 355ml
cans, 600ml bottles, and so on for lower prices than we get lesser
amounts.

I've been told by UK residents that fountain drinks tend to be smaller
but work out to be about the same price for the smaller size.

I'm not up on soda. I simply have bought any in years. I know there
are glass bottles of coke available in the 10oz size. These are rare
as these bottles are actually recycled at the local bottler though
co-operation with the reseller. They e-bay more than the value of the
think, so they are getting fewer and fewer.

I've even seen 6 ounce 1/2 can cokes though mostly in hospitals. I
can't say i've ever seen anything larger than 2l in cola but when ever
I have actually bought soda i've taken the time to evaluate the
prices... and basicly a 2l bottle foats at about 99cents in a
supermarket where as a 20oz bottle from a gas station costs over
99cents. This is common among the big names who engage in a price war.
Any soda I would like simply isn't big enough to play that game and
one would have to spend the usual price, which foats at about 3 to 4
bucks a 6 pack, or 2.50 per 2l bottle the last time I would have
looked.

But franky... the few times i've bought any sort of drink... it would
have been either iced tea or iced coffee in big mouth glass bottles.
6oz for coffee and I think 20+oz for tea. Those things I can actually
reuse.

John wrote:
Thanks for all the helps guys.

What is a ream? Is that a pack of 500 sheets?

It's a pack of paper that's usually between 300 and 500 sheets depending
on the paper weight... 160gsm card would obviously have fewer sheets but
the same rough weight in paper.

I went to Staples today in Leeds at lunchtime and was going to buy
some paper. I was a little disappointed because they had 80, 90 and
100g but no 120g. The next weight was 160g.

Remember that your printer will have a limit to the type, weight and
thickness of paper it can receive. I've noticed that there are heavy
inkjet papers for things like photo printing that are 200gsm+ but if you
were to try paper or card at that weight it wouldn't go through. I can't
be 100% but I'm reasonably sure the issue is thickness and/or issues
with the rollers being able to gain enough traction to pull the paper
through. I'm more than willing to be corrected on that though.


They did have some Epson paper at 90g which I was going to buy and
just see if it did the job, it was on special offer at £4-99 for 500
sheets, but I was waiting in the queue for something like 10 minutes,
they only had one person on the till serving and she was taking her
time so I just put it back and walked out. I had to get back for work.

I'm glad I didn't get it though because the paper I have used I
believe is 80g and if that is showing through on two sided printing
and curling, I'm sure this would as well as it is not much heavier.

I've had a few reams of 90gsm and it's come out rather well, even with
double sided printing... There's some minimal show through but nothing
to write home about.


I don't really need a double coated paper because I just really need
to print the photo on one side and basic text on the other. I don't
need to print the photo with any of the best settings, just a low
quality setting that uses less ink is all I need to do it with.

I ended up going to another stationary shop in Leeds after work and
got some 100gsm ink jet paper. I just got 100 sheets, but will give
this a try and see if it is any good. Then I will be able to tell
whether I really need 120gsm or can drop to 90 or stick with 100.

I will have to check out the Viking Direct paper that has been
recommended. The trouble with buying online though is that the
postage costs will make it quite expensive unless you are buying lots
of other things at the same time or bulk buying.

One final thing, I just wondered if any places here in the UK sell
paper in the "Legal" size? It is a little bit bigger than A4 size at
21.60x35.55 (8.5x14"). I think this size could be quite useful for
certain things, like printing out web pages etc.

Try googling for legal/law office supplies, that might help... or even
ask your local accountant where they get their supplies from.



Thanks to livewire for the tip on viking direct though...

Martin

In comp.periphs.printers Martin wrote:
John wrote:
Thanks for all the helps guys.

What is a ream? Is that a pack of 500 sheets?

It's a pack of paper that's usually between 300 and 500 sheets depending
on the paper weight... 160gsm card would obviously have fewer sheets but
the same rough weight in paper.

I thought a ream was 500 sheets regardless of weight.

--
Chris Green

wrote:
In comp.periphs.printers Martin wrote:
John wrote:
Thanks for all the helps guys.

What is a ream? Is that a pack of 500 sheets?
It's a pack of paper that's usually between 300 and 500 sheets depending
on the paper weight... 160gsm card would obviously have fewer sheets but
the same rough weight in paper.

I thought a ream was 500 sheets regardless of weight.


It could be an official measure but I have here a pack of 160gsm card...
It doesn't refer to itself as a "ream" but I'd probably call it that in
passing.

YMMV

I'm coming into this discussion a bit late so, I'm not sure what has
already been mentioned.

You have to be careful with paper weights, if they are done in pounds
particularly (as many North American papers are rated). Those
unfortunately have little to do with the weight of the paper you are
buying in cut sizes like A4 or A3 (or letter size, or legal size, or
whathaveyou). Paper weights when given in pounds are determined by the
standard printers size the paper is cut to at the mill. They take, I
believe 500 pages (which is one ream) and weight it, and that determines
the weight of the paper, regardless of how it is cut up later.

That would be fine except the standard paper size for weighing purposes
is not consistent. Cover stock, or card stock or bond, all start at
different standard sizes, so the weights do not correspond to one
another is any logical fashion.

Luckily, specialty papers have gone to using a much more logical system
(although it doesn't necessarily correspond to the older "pounds"
system). That is using grams (or grammes) per meter (or metre) square,

This is a true "standard, because regardless of the cut size, or size of
origin, the weight is based upon one square meter/metre of paper. So,
each should be comparable, However, one more caveat. Paper weight does
not tell you several other factors which can influence their use:

Opacity - some papers have additives to make them more opaque to reduce
"show through" from double-sided printing, while other papers may have
high transparency,

Absorbency - This can effect both dot gain, and if the paper is porous
enough it may bleed ink right through to the other side

Rigidity - This is how stiff the paper is. Some papers can be thick but
floppy, others can be thin but rigid. Again additives and milling
process can alter this characteristic. Most papers also have a "grain"
which makes them more rigid in one direction than the other

Surfacing - some papers have distinct "sides" to them, which others have
equal qualities on both sides

Texturing - the type of surface the paper displays. This may or may not
alter how the inks respond.

Thickness - paper weight may not be directly related to thickness. Some
coatings weigh more than others, and some papers are weighed with the
coatings and some only the base is considered. Kaolin clay is heavy,
and a common coating on inkjet papers, for instance.

Shed - some papers tend to flake off the surface with minimal
manipulation. With inkjet printing, this can prove disastrous,
particularly after the image has been printed.

Surface consistency - some papers simply are milled from a variable pulp
and these parts absorb ink differently. That can cause mottling or
variation in darkness in otherwise evenly toned areas.

There is no way to know before working with a specific paper how these
different characteristics will interact. Papers designated for inkjet
use, usually are designed to eliminate these variables, but if you, like
myself, use papers not specifically designated for inkjet printing and
use them in an inkjet setting, there are bound to be surprises, some
pleasant, and some just a bit surprising.

Art

John wrote:

Thanks for all the helps guys.

What is a ream? Is that a pack of 500 sheets?

I went to Staples today in Leeds at lunchtime and was going to buy
some paper. I was a little disappointed because they had 80, 90 and
100g but no 120g. The next weight was 160g.

They did have some Epson paper at 90g which I was going to buy and
just see if it did the job, it was on special offer at £4-99 for 500
sheets, but I was waiting in the queue for something like 10 minutes,
they only had one person on the till serving and she was taking her
time so I just put it back and walked out. I had to get back for work.

I'm glad I didn't get it though because the paper I have used I
believe is 80g and if that is showing through on two sided printing
and curling, I'm sure this would as well as it is not much heavier.

I don't really need a double coated paper because I just really need
to print the photo on one side and basic text on the other. I don't
need to print the photo with any of the best settings, just a low
quality setting that uses less ink is all I need to do it with.

I ended up going to another stationary shop in Leeds after work and
got some 100gsm ink jet paper. I just got 100 sheets, but will give
this a try and see if it is any good. Then I will be able to tell
whether I really need 120gsm or can drop to 90 or stick with 100.

I will have to check out the Viking Direct paper that has been
recommended. The trouble with buying online though is that the
postage costs will make it quite expensive unless you are buying lots
of other things at the same time or bulk buying.

One final thing, I just wondered if any places here in the UK sell
paper in the "Legal" size? It is a little bit bigger than A4 size at
21.60x35.55 (8.5x14"). I think this size could be quite useful for
certain things, like printing out web pages etc.

Cheers

John

In message xy6zf.370371$ki.123634@pd7tw2no, Arthur Entlich
writes
I'm coming into this discussion a bit late so, I'm not sure what has
already been mentioned.

You have to be careful with paper weights, if they are done in pounds
particularly (as many North American papers are rated). Those
unfortunately have little to do with the weight of the paper you are
buying in cut sizes like A4 or A3 (or letter size, or legal size, or
whathaveyou). Paper weights when given in pounds are determined by the
standard printers size the paper is cut to at the mill. They take, I
believe 500 pages (which is one ream) and weight it, and that
determines the weight of the paper, regardless of how it is cut up later.
Snip

The OP is in the UK (Leeds to be precise) so he doesn't have those
things to worry about...

--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net