Kodak Printers??

TJ wrote:
measekite wrote:


TJ wrote:

I stand (well, sit) corrected. The home page of the HPLIP (
Hewlette-Packard Linux Imaging and Printing) (
http://hplip.sourceforge.net ) indicates that it is HP-developed,
but the "About" page says that HP doesn't provide direct support for
the software. So, I'd say HP is closely involved, rather like the
StarOffice/Openoffice or Netscape/Mozilla relationships. That is,
however, more support than most hardware manufacturers will give to
Linux.

It would be nice if Linux was supported by all kinds of harware mfg.
The trouble is there is not standard distro. There needs to be a
standard distro for installations and packages and then the distro
companies can begin to differentiate the distro by including other
things.

Ah, but the kernel, the part that involves the various hardware
drivers, IS standardized across the distros. Oh, there are different
versions of the kernal - Linux is always under development - but a
hardware driver built for a 2.6.x kernel should work with all distros
using that kernel.
You are missing the point. The hardware companies do not want to
support rpms and then debs and then source and then whatever for the
limited number of potential customers who want each. There should be
one package and one base distro with some standardization. Then there
can be gnome and kde etc. along with different docs and other things.
Think like a business corporation and not like an enthusiast.
The packaging method doesn't matter. The problem is that the
manufacturers don't want to release the source code that is needed to
produce a driver.
You cannot blame them and they should not have to.
Personally, I think they're afraid it would reveal too many company
secrets, but that's only my speculation. If they did release the
source code, building a package for a certain distro from that code is
almost trivial, as would be any modifications necessary for a new kernel.

20 years ago, printers came with a manual containing the commands
needed to make it do what it could do, with explanations on how to use
them. That doesn't happen any more.
The commands were just names attached to escape codes that were
basically taken from Epson.

TJ

What may save us all isn't so much Kodak, although kudos to them for
challenging the current business model, but the EU, which is demanding
by legislation that waste be cut. The EU has been amazingly clear
headed when it comes to issues like toxic materials, landfill waste, and
overall pollution, and the pressure will continue to build by both those
countries who don't think they should shoulder all the responsibility,
and the population in other non EU countries, who, seeing what the EU
has required of manufacturers, will start demanding the same for themselves.

I suggest people watch the EU countries closely and then start
indicating the same demands of manufacturers in terms of protection from
dangerous chemicals, waste reduction and technologies which otherwise
restrict or reduce pollution.

Manufacturers always cry "we can't" and "it will bankrupt us" because
all change costs some money to implement. But amazingly, as soon as
legislation draws a line in the sand where the choice is "make it right
or we won't buy it", they amazingly figure out how to fulfill the demands.

Art

Richard Steinfeld wrote:

Chuck wrote:

When a "pemanent" print head fails, usually a few years after the printer
was purchased,
a new printer of equal or better speed and resolution costs less than the
replacement head, if it can even be gotten.
Sometimes the printer OEM has rebuilt printers for less than the list
price
of the head. This usually occurs when the printer is at the end of it's
support from the OEM.


It'll be interesting to watch Kodak's performance play out. I have
reasons for wanting to keep old faithful products as long as possible.
I'm hanging back to protect myself against the nasty cartel screwing
that users have been taking from the big printer makers -- chipped
cartridges, cartridges suddenly becoming unusable due to arbitrary code
embedded in the printer, etc.

So, with planned obsolescence in mind, an issue for me with printers
that have "permanent" heads is:
- How easy or difficult is it to get in there and replace the head?
- Will the manufacturer sell me new heads?
- Are the heads affordable, or are they a "gotcha" ripoff?

Until they prove otherwise, I will assume that the printer makers will
continue playing the same game and _increasingly_ stiffing the consumer.

Kodak's behavior with their new printer line has yet to be seen. It'll
be important to be able to refill their cartridges since the company has
a long history of abandoning support for products that didn't work out
quite the way that they expected. My experience is that corporate
behavior doesn't really change very much.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

What may save us all isn't so much Kodak, although kudos to them for
challenging the current business model, but the EU, which is demanding
by legislation that waste be cut. The EU has been amazingly clear
headed when it comes to issues like toxic materials, landfill waste, and
overall pollution, and the pressure will continue to build by both those
countries who don't think they should shoulder all the responsibility,
and the population in other non EU countries, who, seeing what the EU
has required of manufacturers, will start demanding the same for
themselves.

I suggest people watch the EU countries closely and then start
indicating the same demands of manufacturers in terms of protection from
dangerous chemicals, waste reduction and technologies which otherwise
restrict or reduce pollution.

Manufacturers always cry "we can't" and "it will bankrupt us" because
all change costs some money to implement. But amazingly, as soon as
legislation draws a line in the sand where the choice is "make it right
or we won't buy it", they amazingly figure out how to fulfill the demands.

Perhaps when we've kicked all the Republicans out, we'll have a chance
here to make capitalism and democracy work properly. Right now, the
lobbyists are running the show. Until then, we Americans can only watch
the EU, hopefully, from afar, waist-deep in the swill of runaway corruption.

Bubba

Cal Bubba wrote:

Perhaps when we've kicked all the Republicans out, we'll have a chance
here to make capitalism and democracy work properly. Right now, the
lobbyists are running the show. Until then, we Americans can only watch
the EU, hopefully, from afar, waist-deep in the swill of runaway
corruption.

Bubba

Perhaps I'm older than you, or perhaps my memory is longer. I can
remember a time here in the US when the Democrats were in control of
both the White House and Congress for several years. Somehow I don't
remember things as being much better than they are now. Two conflicts
were started then, by those Democrats. One was in Southeast Asia, and we
all know how that one came out. The other was the War on Poverty, and
that one hasn't worked out so well, either.

It's not the Republicans that are at fault, or the Democrats. The fault
is with the politicians, whatever colors they wear. Unfortunately, no
one has come up with a way to do without them that's better than doing
with them. Yet.

TJ

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"TJ" wrote in message
.. .
| Cal Bubba wrote:
|
| Perhaps when we've kicked all the Republicans out, we'll have a chance
| here to make capitalism and democracy work properly. Right now, the
| lobbyists are running the show. Until then, we Americans can only watch
| the EU, hopefully, from afar, waist-deep in the swill of runaway
| corruption.
|
| Bubba
|
| Perhaps I'm older than you, or perhaps my memory is longer. I can
| remember a time here in the US when the Democrats were in control of
| both the White House and Congress for several years. Somehow I don't
| remember things as being much better than they are now. Two conflicts
| were started then, by those Democrats. One was in Southeast Asia, and we
| all know how that one came out. The other was the War on Poverty, and
| that one hasn't worked out so well, either.
|
| It's not the Republicans that are at fault, or the Democrats. The fault
| is with the politicians, whatever colors they wear. Unfortunately, no
| one has come up with a way to do without them that's better than doing
| with them. Yet.

The reality is that the fault is with WeThePeople.

The War on Poverty had some chance of making a difference. The problem
then, as it is now, is the diversion of resources from butter to guns.

As to the politicians in Washington, there is scant difference in the
ultimate result. They are all bought and paid for, the problem, according
to some, is that they don't stay bought.

Arthur Entlich ) writes:
What may save us all isn't so much Kodak, although kudos to them for
challenging the current business model, but the EU, which is demanding
by legislation that waste be cut. The EU has been amazingly clear
headed when it comes to issues like toxic materials, landfill waste, and
overall pollution, and the pressure will continue to build by both those
countries who don't think they should shoulder all the responsibility,
and the population in other non EU countries, who, seeing what the EU
has required of manufacturers, will start demanding the same for themselves.

I suggest people watch the EU countries closely and then start
indicating the same demands of manufacturers in terms of protection from
dangerous chemicals, waste reduction and technologies which otherwise
restrict or reduce pollution.

Manufacturers always cry "we can't" and "it will bankrupt us" because
all change costs some money to implement. But amazingly, as soon as
legislation draws a line in the sand where the choice is "make it right
or we won't buy it", they amazingly figure out how to fulfill the demands.

Art


I can forsee a day when U.S. "made" (designed, specified) products are
boycotted by EU citizens, until they meet rational resource and recycling
standards.

Brendan


Richard Steinfeld wrote:

Chuck wrote:

When a "pemanent" print head fails, usually a few years after the printer
was purchased,
a new printer of equal or better speed and resolution costs less than the
replacement head, if it can even be gotten.
Sometimes the printer OEM has rebuilt printers for less than the list
price
of the head. This usually occurs when the printer is at the end of it's
support from the OEM.


It'll be interesting to watch Kodak's performance play out. I have
reasons for wanting to keep old faithful products as long as possible.
I'm hanging back to protect myself against the nasty cartel screwing
that users have been taking from the big printer makers -- chipped
cartridges, cartridges suddenly becoming unusable due to arbitrary code
embedded in the printer, etc.

So, with planned obsolescence in mind, an issue for me with printers
that have "permanent" heads is:
- How easy or difficult is it to get in there and replace the head?
- Will the manufacturer sell me new heads?
- Are the heads affordable, or are they a "gotcha" ripoff?

Until they prove otherwise, I will assume that the printer makers will
continue playing the same game and _increasingly_ stiffing the consumer.

Kodak's behavior with their new printer line has yet to be seen. It'll
be important to be able to refill their cartridges since the company has
a long history of abandoning support for products that didn't work out
quite the way that they expected. My experience is that corporate
behavior doesn't really change very much.

Brendan R. Wehrung wrote:
I can forsee a day when U.S. "made" (designed, specified) products are
boycotted by EU citizens, until they meet rational resource and recycling
standards.

It is clear to me that manufactured product "pollution" and "recycling"
are but political "whipping boys". If it were REALLY important,
automobiles would be banned first and foremost. what with their nasty
old tires, smelly exhaust, profuse CO2 emissions and rusty junk that
soils the landscape. And how do printers stack up against those in
comparison?

The rebellion, if one can call it that, against American products is
just the consequence of an unpopular war that no one seems capable of
settling decisively and quickly. We distinctly lack our fair share of
heroic statesmen. Any volunteers?

The last I heard was that bureaucrats of the US diplomatic corps
declared it unfair to assign them there. Wimps.

As for Kodak Printers, I don't see a firm connection. Any manufacturer
is free to specify the means of disposing of their consumable and their
carcasses. I don't see the problem in comparison. As a matter of fact,
Kodak, with the fixed print head reduces the trash content, as compared
to HP that disposes print heads.

Angelo Campanella

Oh Yeah with all of the gallons of developer and other Eastman chemicals that landed whereever and polluted the earth.

Angelo Campanella wrote: Brendan R. Wehrung wrote:
I can forsee a day when U.S. "made" (designed, specified) products are
boycotted by EU citizens, until they meet rational resource and recycling
standards.

    It is clear to me that manufactured product "pollution" and "recycling" are but political "whipping boys". If it were REALLY important, automobiles would be banned first and foremost. what with their nasty old tires, smelly exhaust, profuse CO2 emissions and rusty junk that soils the landscape. And how do printers stack up against those in comparison?

    The rebellion, if one can call it that, against American products is just the consequence of an unpopular war that no one seems capable of settling decisively and quickly. We distinctly lack our fair share of heroic statesmen. Any volunteers?

    The last I heard was that bureaucrats of the US diplomatic corps declared it unfair to assign them there. Wimps.

    As for Kodak Printers, I don't see a firm connection. Any manufacturer is free to specify the means of disposing of their consumable and their carcasses. I don't see the problem in comparison. As a matter of fact, Kodak, with the fixed print head reduces the trash content, as compared to HP that disposes print heads.

    Angelo Campanella

We each need to remember we are the constituents who provide the voice
(or assumed voice) for our politicians. If our voices get loud enough,
they will have no choice but voice our points of view, or they will be
replaced. With a US election coming up, this is probably a good time to
make sure your "representatives" have clean ears ;-)

Art

TJ wrote:

Cal Bubba wrote:

Perhaps when we've kicked all the Republicans out, we'll have a chance
here to make capitalism and democracy work properly. Right now, the
lobbyists are running the show. Until then, we Americans can only
watch the EU, hopefully, from afar, waist-deep in the swill of runaway
corruption.

Bubba


Perhaps I'm older than you, or perhaps my memory is longer. I can
remember a time here in the US when the Democrats were in control of
both the White House and Congress for several years. Somehow I don't
remember things as being much better than they are now. Two conflicts
were started then, by those Democrats. One was in Southeast Asia, and we
all know how that one came out. The other was the War on Poverty, and
that one hasn't worked out so well, either.

It's not the Republicans that are at fault, or the Democrats. The fault
is with the politicians, whatever colors they wear. Unfortunately, no
one has come up with a way to do without them that's better than doing
with them. Yet.

TJ

Arthur Entlich wrote:
We each need to remember we are the constituents who provide
money
the voice (or assumed voice) for our politicians. If our
money
voices get loud enough, they will have no choice but voice our points
of view, or they will be replaced. With a US election coming up, this
is probably a good time to make sure your "representatives" have clean
dirty pockets
ears ;-)

Art

TJ wrote:

Cal Bubba wrote:

Perhaps when we've kicked all the Republicans out, we'll have a
chance here to make capitalism and democracy work properly. Right
now, the lobbyists are running the show. Until then, we Americans
can only watch the EU, hopefully, from afar, waist-deep in the swill
of runaway corruption.

Bubba


Perhaps I'm older than you, or perhaps my memory is longer. I can
remember a time here in the US when the Democrats were in control of
both the White House and Congress for several years. Somehow I don't
remember things as being much better than they are now. Two conflicts
were started then, by those Democrats. One was in Southeast Asia, and
we all know how that one came out. The other was the War on Poverty,
and that one hasn't worked out so well, either.

It's not the Republicans that are at fault, or the Democrats. The
fault is with the politicians, whatever colors they wear.
Unfortunately, no one has come up with a way to do without them
that's better than doing with them. Yet.

TJ