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Hard drive that boots elsewhere refuses to boot in this machine



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 19th 03, 09:41 AM
Simon O'Connor
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Default Hard drive that boots elsewhere refuses to boot in this machine

I bought the pieces and setup a machine for a friend based on a Gigabyte GA
7VKML motherboard with the onboard Savage DDR video and AC 97 audio. He's
had this for a number of months and has been running Windows XP on it with
no problems.

Last week he had the PC on while he was watching TV in another room and it
just hung. On reboot the machine said it could find no boot device.

I've since been trying to get the machine to work, and have salvaged the
data from the Hard drive (A 40Gig SeaGate Baraccuda) by hooking it up to my
machine and using data recovery software. After I did this I reformatted the
hard drive and then put it back in his machine to re-install Windows XP.
Problem is, that the windows XP setup hangs on the screen that says
'Detecting your hardware' if the harddrive is plugged in. If the hard drive
is unplugged then the setup runs through with no problem, except that at the
end there's nowhere to install it.

If you start the install, then plug the Hard drive in part way through it's
loading of device drivers etc. Then when it comes to installing windows XP,
it finds the hard drive and installs it, but when it restarts the machine so
it can boot into windows to continue the install, it refuses to boot, saying
there's no valid boot disk.

If I take the hard-drive from this machine and now put it in mine, then
Windows XP boots up and the setup continues... put it back in the Machine
with the GA 7VKML motherboard, and it doesn't see it as a valid boot drive.

Also, I've created floppy boot disks and had no luck.

Also, I've tried flashing the bios up to the latest version (In steps from
the current F3 to F4 and so on to F...) but the Qflash program doesn't work
at all, and I can't boot of the floppy.

I've also successfully run a CD bootable version of linux on the machine,
and that's happy too.

I have now completely installed Windows XP on the hard drive by doing it all
in my machine, but on returning the hard drive to the original machine it
still refuses to boot from it.

Has anyone any insight into what the issue may be, or what I can do to
further try things?

Thanks in advance


  #2  
Old July 19th 03, 03:02 PM
John McGaw
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Simon O'Connor" wrote in message
u...
I bought the pieces and setup a machine for a friend based on a Gigabyte

GA
7VKML motherboard with the onboard Savage DDR video and AC 97 audio. He's
had this for a number of months and has been running Windows XP on it with
no problems.

Last week he had the PC on while he was watching TV in another room and it
just hung. On reboot the machine said it could find no boot device.


snip...

Obvious things first: have you tried to install to a different drive in the
problem machine using the same cables, etc.? Have you tried a different IDE
cable? Have you tried using a different power cable from the PSU?
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]

Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com


  #3  
Old July 19th 03, 05:00 PM
Vanguard
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Posts: n/a
Default

In addition to John's suggestions:

- If you have more than one IDE port on the motherboard (which is most
likely), have you tried using the other IDE port?

- When trying the other IDE port, have you then tried disabling the
unused IDE port in the BIOS?

- There is usually a jumper on the motherboard (a 2-pin header) where
you can slide on a shunt that will clear out the BIOS. Tried that?

- Have you checked your BIOS settings, like that you are using AUTO for
drive detect and have enabled LBA?

- When you startup the computer with the "bad" hard drive in it, can you
hear the drive spin up just as you turn on power? If not, maybe the
female pins in the Molex connector are loose. You can (with power off)
stick in a tiny jeweler's screwdriver and carefully pinch the sides
(it's a tube with a split) so the split gets reduced and will grab
better the male pins on the hard drive. Or, for now, just try using a
different power connector. If you have a Y-adaptor, remove it and
connect the power connector from the power supply; it could be a crimp
got loose in the Y-adapter and the wire doesn't make a good connection
anymore.

Since the hard drive works in one machine and not in another, it's not a
problem with the hard drive. I would suspect power, cabling, or BIOS
problems, or maybe a bad IDE port. There is some common circuitry
between the IDE ports, so if everything else checks out okay but you
still cannot get the hard drive to work on the other IDE port, you could
try to buy an IDE port card. The problem with that is it is not the
primary IDE controller, so during Windows install you may have to press
F6 at the start to tell the setup program that it later has to ask you
for a driver in order to find the mass storage device (the setup handles
the secondary IDE controller like it is a SCSI device).



  #4  
Old July 19th 03, 07:50 PM
Cari
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

A hard drive with an install of WindowsXP from YOUR PC is NOT going to be
able to boot in HIS PC because all the hardware doesn't match.

You can try installing the hard drive in his PC, and then doing a Repair
Installation.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;[LN];315341
How to Perform an In-Place Upgrade (Reinstallation) of Windows XP

However I suggest you remove most of his hardware devices first... to find
out which one is causing the problem. Try with just the graphics card - ie
no soundcard, firewire, LAN, whichever else he has in his PC.

After you've got it up and running then add them one by one to find out what
is causing the problem.

Cari
www. coribright.com

"Simon O'Connor" wrote in message
u...
I bought the pieces and setup a machine for a friend based on a Gigabyte

GA
7VKML motherboard with the onboard Savage DDR video and AC 97 audio. He's
had this for a number of months and has been running Windows XP on it with
no problems.

Last week he had the PC on while he was watching TV in another room and it
just hung. On reboot the machine said it could find no boot device.

I've since been trying to get the machine to work, and have salvaged the
data from the Hard drive (A 40Gig SeaGate Baraccuda) by hooking it up to

my
machine and using data recovery software. After I did this I reformatted

the
hard drive and then put it back in his machine to re-install Windows XP.
Problem is, that the windows XP setup hangs on the screen that says
'Detecting your hardware' if the harddrive is plugged in. If the hard

drive
is unplugged then the setup runs through with no problem, except that at

the
end there's nowhere to install it.

If you start the install, then plug the Hard drive in part way through

it's
loading of device drivers etc. Then when it comes to installing windows

XP,
it finds the hard drive and installs it, but when it restarts the machine

so
it can boot into windows to continue the install, it refuses to boot,

saying
there's no valid boot disk.

If I take the hard-drive from this machine and now put it in mine, then
Windows XP boots up and the setup continues... put it back in the Machine
with the GA 7VKML motherboard, and it doesn't see it as a valid boot

drive.

Also, I've created floppy boot disks and had no luck.

Also, I've tried flashing the bios up to the latest version (In steps from
the current F3 to F4 and so on to F...) but the Qflash program doesn't

work
at all, and I can't boot of the floppy.

I've also successfully run a CD bootable version of linux on the machine,
and that's happy too.

I have now completely installed Windows XP on the hard drive by doing it

all
in my machine, but on returning the hard drive to the original machine it
still refuses to boot from it.

Has anyone any insight into what the issue may be, or what I can do to
further try things?

Thanks in advance




  #5  
Old July 20th 03, 08:05 AM
Simon O'Connor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


*snip, snip!*

Obvious things first: have you tried to install to a different drive in

the
problem machine using the same cables, etc.? Have you tried a different

IDE
cable? Have you tried using a different power cable from the PSU?
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]


Hi John

Thanks for the reply, I actually haven't tried another drive in this
machine, as the only drive I have is my own, and I don't want it starting up
windows on another box and detecting all sorts of other hardware and
screwing with my install... but having used the drive in my machine, and it
working fine, it's not the hard drive at fault. I have tried the IDE cable
from my machine, but I'm not sure about the IDE cable... although as I can
plug the hard drive in part way through a windows install and have the drive
recognised and installed onto (just not booted off later), it doesn't seem
to be that...

Simon


  #6  
Old July 20th 03, 08:09 AM
Simon O'Connor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Vanguard,

- If you have more than one IDE port on the motherboard (which is most
likely), have you tried using the other IDE port?

You know, stupidly I haven't... as everything I've read says the boot device
has to be on the primary channel... but hey, the CDROM's working, so I'll
give it a shot on it's IDE channel.


- When trying the other IDE port, have you then tried disabling the
unused IDE port in the BIOS?

That I haven't, but I will now... thanks for the suggestion.

- There is usually a jumper on the motherboard (a 2-pin header) where
you can slide on a shunt that will clear out the BIOS. Tried that?

Yup, have done that a number of times!


- Have you checked your BIOS settings, like that you are using AUTO for
drive detect and have enabled LBA?

Yup, have had the BIOS on AUTO, and also let it auto detect it so it's
preset, but neither setting works... and yes, LBA is on.


- When you startup the computer with the "bad" hard drive in it, can you
hear the drive spin up just as you turn on power? If not, maybe the
female pins in the Molex connector are loose. You can (with power off)
stick in a tiny jeweler's screwdriver and carefully pinch the sides
(it's a tube with a split) so the split gets reduced and will grab
better the male pins on the hard drive. Or, for now, just try using a
different power connector. If you have a Y-adaptor, remove it and
connect the power connector from the power supply; it could be a crimp
got loose in the Y-adapter and the wire doesn't make a good connection
anymore.

As the drive does is identified without issue from the BIOS, and during
boot, just not able to be booted from, I would assume it's getting power
without issue... but thanks for thinking outside of where I was!


Since the hard drive works in one machine and not in another, it's not a
problem with the hard drive. I would suspect power, cabling, or BIOS
problems, or maybe a bad IDE port. There is some common circuitry
between the IDE ports, so if everything else checks out okay but you
still cannot get the hard drive to work on the other IDE port, you could
try to buy an IDE port card. The problem with that is it is not the
primary IDE controller, so during Windows install you may have to press
F6 at the start to tell the setup program that it later has to ask you
for a driver in order to find the mass storage device (the setup handles
the secondary IDE controller like it is a SCSI device).


Thanks again for that further info.

Simon


  #7  
Old July 20th 03, 11:16 AM
Simon O'Connor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi again,

I've got more information now... I've been playing around with things as per
the suggestions of these who have kindly posted replies, and it's still not
working. I've now tried the drive on the other IDE channel with nothing else
plugged in, tried just the floppy drive (I can't boot off that either), and
also just tried a CD runnable version of Linux called Knoppix... this boots
and runs fine on my computer, but it isn't working on this one at all... So
I really don't know what's going on... if my friend can find the receipt for
the motherboard, then I'll get it replaced, and post what's found to be the
problem.

If anyone does have any further ideas though, it'd be much appreciated!

Simon


  #8  
Old July 20th 03, 05:31 PM
Vanguard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Simon O'Connor" wrote in message
u...
Hi again,

I've got more information now... I've been playing around with things

as per
the suggestions of these who have kindly posted replies, and it's

still not
working. I've now tried the drive on the other IDE channel with

nothing else
plugged in, tried just the floppy drive (I can't boot off that

either), and
also just tried a CD runnable version of Linux called Knoppix... this

boots
and runs fine on my computer, but it isn't working on this one at

all... So
I really don't know what's going on... if my friend can find the

receipt for
the motherboard, then I'll get it replaced, and post what's found to

be the
problem.

If anyone does have any further ideas though, it'd be much

appreciated!

Simon



I might've missed it but did not see mention if you had tried booting
into DOS. Not booting into Windows and then using a DOS shell or by
exiting Windows back into DOS. Just booting straight into DOS real
mode. For Windows 9x, you can hit, I think, F5 or F8 to get a menu and
then select to boot into DOS (and without loading anything in config.sys
and autoexec.bat). Otherwise, use a DOS bootable floppy (and rename
config.sys and autoexec.bat so nothing in them gets loaded). Can you
see your drive now?

Have you tried booting into DOS and then ran the setup.exe to install
Windows to see if it then detects the hard drive okay? I'm wondering if
the MBR (master boot record) might be fouled up or infected. From a DOS
bootable floppy that has the FDISK program on it, run:

fdisk /mbr

to replace the MBR with the one from Microsoft. By booting up without a
diskette in the floppy drive (and assuming the BIOS is configured to
look at A: before C: for a boot drive), you do not load whatever might
be in the MBR on the hard drive.

Another thought is that you say that you format the drive on one host
and then move it to another. The drive geometry used by the BIOS in one
machine may not be the same translation geometry recognized and used by
another. Sometimes you can move a drive without incident, sometimes
not. If you can boot into DOS real mode using a bootable floppy, and if
the drive is recognized as existing under that instance of DOS, then try
using FORMAT on the host in which the drive is to be used.


  #9  
Old July 21st 03, 12:23 PM
Simon O'Connor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I might've missed it but did not see mention if you had tried booting
into DOS. Not booting into Windows and then using a DOS shell or by
exiting Windows back into DOS. Just booting straight into DOS real
mode. For Windows 9x, you can hit, I think, F5 or F8 to get a menu and
then select to boot into DOS (and without loading anything in config.sys
and autoexec.bat). Otherwise, use a DOS bootable floppy (and rename
config.sys and autoexec.bat so nothing in them gets loaded). Can you
see your drive now?


Hi there, thanks for the suggestion... I have tried this, the problem is
that it's not getting even that far... it won't even recognise the drive as
being bootable, and that's also the case with the floppy drive.


Have you tried booting into DOS and then ran the setup.exe to install
Windows to see if it then detects the hard drive okay? I'm wondering if
the MBR (master boot record) might be fouled up or infected. From a DOS
bootable floppy that has the FDISK program on it, run:

fdisk /mbr
to replace the MBR with the one from Microsoft. By booting up without a
diskette in the floppy drive (and assuming the BIOS is configured to
look at A: before C: for a boot drive), you do not load whatever might
be in the MBR on the hard drive.


I have booted directly into Window's Setup, but it hangs during the setup
unless, as mentioned, I unplug the hard drive and then plug it back in after
the setup has started... and then I have once let the setup format the hard
drive and install windows, but at the point of rebooting into windows it
fails to find a boot device.


Another thought is that you say that you format the drive on one host
and then move it to another. The drive geometry used by the BIOS in one
machine may not be the same translation geometry recognized and used by
another. Sometimes you can move a drive without incident, sometimes
not. If you can boot into DOS real mode using a bootable floppy, and if
the drive is recognized as existing under that instance of DOS, then try
using FORMAT on the host in which the drive is to be used.


I've never heard of drives formatted on one machine not working on others,
but as I did format it once on the host machine, this as an issue is ruled
out.

Thanks for the suggestions though... it's really stumped me, and I've got to
the point of almost giving up and paying for it to be fixed now... (Well,
getting the friend to, as it's his machine!)

Simon


  #10  
Old July 22nd 03, 06:34 AM
Stacey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Simon O'Connor wrote:

Hi again,

I've got more information now... I've been playing around with things as
per the suggestions of these who have kindly posted replies, and it's
still not working. I've now tried the drive on the other IDE channel with
nothing else plugged in, tried just the floppy drive (I can't boot off
that either), and also just tried a CD runnable version of Linux called
Knoppix... this boots and runs fine on my computer, but it isn't working
on this one at all...


I assume you have some of the following set in the boot sequence in the
bios, if so the mobo sounds like it's toast.

--

Stacey
 




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