Best Card for Handling Video Playback & Driving Large Display

I recently acquired a Dell 2405fpw and am now looking for an *AGP* *DVI*
video card to get the most out of this monster display. I very rarely play
games, but (aside from business apps) watch DVDs & NTSC broadcasts.

While I understand that the scaling issues involved prevent me from
obtaining perfect fullscreen video (although DVD isn't too bad, even with
the current 9600 pro in the machine...), and even moreso, quality
(fullscreen) NTSC broadcasts, I hope to find a video card that handles video
and the upscaling of video well.

I'm thinking about the AIW x800xt, even though the multimedia software
leaves much to be desired. I suppose I could look for third party software
solutions for broadcast video. I hear BTV4 is pretty good, if not somewhat
cpu intensive.

Also, I've been considering picking up the Fusion 3 or 5 Gold HDTV card as
well (assuming that my area gets a decent amount of QAM channels).


http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/eng/Products/ATSC5Gold.aspx

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro...fusion3qam.asp

At any rate, I appreciate whatever suggestions I can get. I'm hoping for the
best quality available for my purposes, as outlined above.

Again, AGP, DVI.

Thanks,
Hark

Specs:

AMD 64 3500+

MSI MS-7025 (NEO2 Platinum)

1 GB DDR Corsair RAM (2x512)-Dual Channel Mode

Current: ATI 9600 Pro, ATI TV Wonder Elite



Dell 2405fpw

The program used to play DVDs has a lot to do with the image quality.

Bob

"Harkhof" wrote in message
newscOBf.14808$bF.10596@dukeread07...
I recently acquired a Dell 2405fpw and am now looking for an *AGP* *DVI*
video card to get the most out of this monster display. I very rarely play
games, but (aside from business apps) watch DVDs & NTSC broadcasts.

While I understand that the scaling issues involved prevent me from
obtaining perfect fullscreen video (although DVD isn't too bad, even with
the current 9600 pro in the machine...), and even moreso, quality
(fullscreen) NTSC broadcasts, I hope to find a video card that handles
video
and the upscaling of video well.

I'm thinking about the AIW x800xt, even though the multimedia software
leaves much to be desired. I suppose I could look for third party software
solutions for broadcast video. I hear BTV4 is pretty good, if not somewhat
cpu intensive.

Also, I've been considering picking up the Fusion 3 or 5 Gold HDTV card as
well (assuming that my area gets a decent amount of QAM channels).


http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/eng/Products/ATSC5Gold.aspx

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro...fusion3qam.asp

At any rate, I appreciate whatever suggestions I can get. I'm hoping for
the
best quality available for my purposes, as outlined above.

Again, AGP, DVI.

Thanks,
Hark

Specs:

AMD 64 3500+

MSI MS-7025 (NEO2 Platinum)

1 GB DDR Corsair RAM (2x512)-Dual Channel Mode

Current: ATI 9600 Pro, ATI TV Wonder Elite



Dell 2405fpw

"sycochkn" wrote in message
ink.net...
The program used to play DVDs has a lot to do with the image quality.


Yes, I have to agree, but the bigger issue I'm dealing with is quality
scaling to the high resolution without appearing grainy. My hope is that
someone has some experience with the 2400fpw and has come up with solutions
to acheive the best quality possible at this point in time.

The DVD video, although it could be better, is not too bad, but the NTSC is
pretty bad, and that is my greater concern. For this issue, i believe that
software AND hardware will play a role.

Thanks for the response,

Hark

ANy other ideas welcome!


Bob

"Harkhof" wrote in message
newscOBf.14808$bF.10596@dukeread07...
I recently acquired a Dell 2405fpw and am now looking for an *AGP* *DVI*
video card to get the most out of this monster display. I very rarely
play
games, but (aside from business apps) watch DVDs & NTSC broadcasts.

While I understand that the scaling issues involved prevent me from
obtaining perfect fullscreen video (although DVD isn't too bad, even with
the current 9600 pro in the machine...), and even moreso, quality
(fullscreen) NTSC broadcasts, I hope to find a video card that handles
video
and the upscaling of video well.

I'm thinking about the AIW x800xt, even though the multimedia software
leaves much to be desired. I suppose I could look for third party
software
solutions for broadcast video. I hear BTV4 is pretty good, if not
somewhat
cpu intensive.

Also, I've been considering picking up the Fusion 3 or 5 Gold HDTV card
as
well (assuming that my area gets a decent amount of QAM channels).


http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/eng/Products/ATSC5Gold.aspx

http://www.digitalconnection.com/Pro...fusion3qam.asp

At any rate, I appreciate whatever suggestions I can get. I'm hoping for
the
best quality available for my purposes, as outlined above.

Again, AGP, DVI.

Thanks,
Hark

Specs:

AMD 64 3500+

MSI MS-7025 (NEO2 Platinum)

1 GB DDR Corsair RAM (2x512)-Dual Channel Mode

Current: ATI 9600 Pro, ATI TV Wonder Elite



Dell 2405fpw

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:27:37 -0600, "Harkhof"
wrote:


"sycochkn" wrote in message
link.net...
The program used to play DVDs has a lot to do with the image quality.


Yes, I have to agree, but the bigger issue I'm dealing with is quality
scaling to the high resolution without appearing grainy.


Yes, that's why you don't need a different video card (which
will do the same thing), you need a video player software
that does a better job than what you're currently using.

You wrote of a desire for DVI, but that's not going to help,
at most it will make the grainy picture more sharply grained
or at least, you wouldn't see much difference at all.


My hope is that
someone has some experience with the 2400fpw and has come up with solutions
to acheive the best quality possible at this point in time.


Best quality possible is video source that isn't resized a
lot, at native display resolution. If it strongly averaged
everything to be rid of grain, then it's blurrier with
artificial grain still from it being an LCD.



The DVD video, although it could be better, is not too bad, but the NTSC is
pretty bad, and that is my greater concern. For this issue, i believe that
software AND hardware will play a role.

What tuner is on the card you mentioned? No reason to
believe the "video card" portion of an AIW makes a
difference here, not when comparing one remotely modern like
what you already had.

Will DScaler work with your current tuner card?

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:27:37 -0600, "Harkhof"
wrote:


"sycochkn" wrote in message
hlink.net...
The program used to play DVDs has a lot to do with the image quality.


Yes, I have to agree, but the bigger issue I'm dealing with is quality
scaling to the high resolution without appearing grainy.


Yes, that's why you don't need a different video card (which
will do the same thing), you need a video player software
that does a better job than what you're currently using.

As I previously posted, the DVD video is not all that bad, and although I
agree that the software player is an intregal part of the solution, a video
card that handles scaling well is also desirable. Also, remember, I am
driving a fairly large monitor, and while even my old AIW 9000 Pro will
work, the performance is not what it could be with a higher quality, newer
tech card. I have a 9600 pro in that machine at the moment, which is OK, but
the x800xt does a much better job over all driving this monitor. The
question is not IF I will get another card, but rather: which one? Thus, the
request for recommendations from those who may have found a card that
handles this type of scaling better.


You wrote of a desire for DVI, but that's not going to help,
at most it will make the grainy picture more sharply grained
or at least, you wouldn't see much difference at all.

Surely you're not suggesting that I run a 24" monitor in VGA? This display
DOES have a VGA connection, but I wouldn't run VGA when it also has a DVI
connection, nor would I buy a VGA card instead. And there is a tremendous
difference on this display (or any other DVI display) when running it in
VGA. I am actually running TWO machines on this display (along with a KVM
for the mouse & keyboard), one connected DVI and one connected VGA. The "VGA
machine", however, is merely a workhorse machine, for which any monitor will
do, so VGA quality is incidental.


My hope is that
someone has some experience with the 2400fpw and has come up with
solutions
to acheive the best quality possible at this point in time.


Best quality possible is video source that isn't resized a
lot, at native display resolution. If it strongly averaged
everything to be rid of grain, then it's blurrier with
artificial grain still from it being an LCD.

Yes, again, this is a given. However, my hope is that someone who has
already done the legwork for this type of circumstance will step up and
declare their solution.



The DVD video, although it could be better, is not too bad, but the NTSC
is
pretty bad, and that is my greater concern. For this issue, i believe that
software AND hardware will play a role.

What tuner is on the card you mentioned?

I've actually tried a few different tuners, of which the current one is the
ATI TV Wonder Elite, which I had heard good things about, but was
disappointed. I also tried this tuner with BeyondTV4, Sage TV and the
Cyberlink Power Cinema that came with the card. The BTV4 showed the most
promise, but in my configuration, it was unstable. The Cyberlink software
was, as expected, pretty pitiful, although it DID offer the best quality.

As I said earlier, I'm considering one of the mentioned HD cards if my area
has enough attainable HD channels). Although I couldn't watch every cahnnel
in HD, at least that would partially solve the problem. HD channels should
do fine on this monitor.


No reason to
believe the "video card" portion of an AIW makes a
difference here, not when comparing one remotely modern like
what you already had.

I have to agree, that once beyond a certain point, faster hardware is not
going to help in this area. The AIW on the x800xt, however, was noticeably
better than the 9000 Pro and an AIW 9600xt I had in the machine. Perhaps it
was some minor improvements ATI made upon the tuner (too bad they don't put
the same effort into their software as they do their hardware...).


Will DScaler work with your current tuner card?

I don't know. I have yet to look into that, but I hear that it eats up quite
a few cpu cycles, and given that this is a computer I use quite a lot in my
business, I need to be able to multi-task without problems. Have you used
DScaler? If so, what has your experience with it been in regards to NTSC
broadcasts?

Thanks,
Hark

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:34:36 -0600, "Harkhof" wrote:


As I previously posted, the DVD video is not all that bad, and although I
agree that the software player is an intregal part of the solution, a video
card that handles scaling well is also desirable. Also, remember, I am
driving a fairly large monitor, and while even my old AIW 9000 Pro will
work, the performance is not what it could be with a higher quality, newer
tech card. I have a 9600 pro in that machine at the moment, which is OK, but
the x800xt does a much better job over all driving this monitor. The
question is not IF I will get another card, but rather: which one? Thus, the
request for recommendations from those who may have found a card that
handles this type of scaling better.

Id like to hear about it myself if there is a difference. The 800
obviously is a more powerful card to push higher resolutions so for
that its desirable. But usually that power is mainly used for high res
with all those gaming effects with a 3d engine. Im not sure how much
actually power you need for 2D static pics and just showing videos
whether it would come into play at all. Ive got 4 cards the 800XL ,
9600XT, 9600 and 400mx which I can use on 3 different systems -- two
AMD 64s 3000/3200 and an old AMD 1600 athlon. They can all play videos
etc OK , DVDs on my 19" 1280x1024. Sure you want to go beyond that on
your new widescreen higher res monitor but the 400mx which is ancient
works OK up and not a heck of a lot different vs my 800XL on my 19" so
you got to wonder if a 800XT is overkill if you arent playing games
for DVDs.

Im no expert but like others say I think the software makes the big
difference as long as the hardware isnt deficient in some crucial way
in terms of DVD playback. Well LCDs make a huge difference in other
ways not resolution. My big beef is that many PC LCDs and LCDs in
general have really poor blacks and dark shade contrast levels. Many
sites mention this and in dark scenes details disappear and it looks
murky. On my LCD 19" Viewsonic for instance and its rated well ---- I
was looking at UHHHHHHHH Anaconda some terrible flick about a giant
snake that eats people and it was very difficult to make out what was
happening in many dark scenes. Of course many will say who cares with
that movie. Traditionally its said that say with LCD tvs which I
assume is probably but I dont know this , better than many LCD PC
screens in black levels etc since its primarily used for movies and TV
---- are worse than Plasma and CRTs in this area.

The other thing is response too of course but that doesnt seem like a
big deal unless once again you are playing games and many of the newer
LCD TVs have improved response now because people are buying it for
gaming. The other is LCDs to improve response times have gone to 6 bit
panels which dither most of the shades they claim to get so places
like Anandtech point out some shades are impossible to get correctily
and theres problems like banding when they show shade gradations etc
in a gradual spectrum in tests.

I actually bought a LCD HDTV too and an using it for PC monitor now
26". The thing about it is ---- it seems to have superior black levels
etc vs my Viewsonic and they improved the reponse times so gaming is
not a problem. Ive tested it with some recently. One guy posted that
he still thought black levels were "crushed" on the movie Matrix but
frankly tons of people have bought this same LCD HDTV the Olvevia
Syntax HVX 26" its been on sale on and off continually since BF down
to 499 AR --- and the overwhelming majority seem to be pretty happy
with it. One thing the HDTV LCD tend to have lower res than obviously
the widescreen PC large

So in the movie are Im not sure the hardware makes a huge difference
but I maybe wrong. I havent seen it with my 800XL

Harkhof wrote:
I recently acquired a Dell 2405fpw and am now looking for an *AGP* *DVI*
video card to get the most out of this monster display. I very rarely play
games, but (aside from business apps) watch DVDs & NTSC broadcasts.

While I understand that the scaling issues involved prevent me from
obtaining perfect fullscreen video (although DVD isn't too bad, even with
the current 9600 pro in the machine...), and even moreso, quality
(fullscreen) NTSC broadcasts, I hope to find a video card that handles video
and the upscaling of video well.

You will always be limited by the constraints of the NTSC format. It
uses 525 lines of which only about 500 are used for the picture. It
also uses interlace, which computers monitors do not. No video card
will help much in making NTSC signals look good on a high resolution
monitor. It has been estimated to have about 720 x 480 resolution.

The new HDTV signals can have up to 1080 lines, but this requires a HD
television tuner to convert them to a format a PC monitor can use.

--
Virg Wall, P.E.

VWWall wrote:

Harkhof wrote:
I recently acquired a Dell 2405fpw and am now looking for an *AGP* *DVI*
video card to get the most out of this monster display. I very rarely play
games, but (aside from business apps) watch DVDs & NTSC broadcasts.

While I understand that the scaling issues involved prevent me from
obtaining perfect fullscreen video (although DVD isn't too bad, even with
the current 9600 pro in the machine...), and even moreso, quality
(fullscreen) NTSC broadcasts, I hope to find a video card that handles video
and the upscaling of video well.

You will always be limited by the constraints of the NTSC format. It
uses 525 lines of which only about 500 are used for the picture. It
also uses interlace, which computers monitors do not. No video card
will help much in making NTSC signals look good on a high resolution
monitor. It has been estimated to have about 720 x 480 resolution.

NTSC can never be that good. 720x480 is best-case for an
anamorphic-widescreen DVD using component-video outputs, which is not
NTSC.

With NTSC, you can get something like 330x480, IIRC.

The new HDTV signals can have up to 1080 lines, but this requires a HD
television tuner to convert them to a format a PC monitor can use.

"chrisv" wrote in message
...

NTSC can never be that good. 720x480 is best-case for an
anamorphic-widescreen DVD using component-video outputs, which is not
NTSC.

Assuming that we're talking H x V, and by "NTSC" we mean the
525/60Hz 2:1 interlaced scanning format using NTSC color
encoding, the best you get in terms of luminance-channel (Y)
resolution is about 440 x 330; you don't get the full vertical
line count due to the interlaced scanning structure (see "Kell
factor" for more). It is somewhat poorer than that (esp. in
the horizontal) in terms of chroma-channel resolution.

Bob M.

Bob Myers wrote:

NTSC can never be that good. 720x480 is best-case
for an anamorphic-widescreen DVD using component-
video outputs, which is not NTSC.

The DVD to component analog (YPbPr) case is never afflicted
with composite NTSC limits, other than 525(480v) lines, unless
the source master was composite NTSC.

Assuming that we're talking H x V, and by "NTSC" we mean the
525/60Hz 2:1 interlaced scanning format using NTSC color
encoding, the best you get in terms of luminance-channel (Y)
resolution is about 440 x 330;

DVD is 720x480 4:2:0 as uncompressed, although it appears
that other factors may limit the Hres to around 500 "lines",
but in any case potentially higher than broadcast NTSC.

... you don't get the full vertical line count due to the
interlaced scanning structure (see "Kell factor" for more).

If the player or the display do correct de-interlacing of
adjacent fields into a single progressive frame, I don't
see why you wouldn't, for luma anyway. And YPbPr
supports progressive.

In the context of the basenote, however, the real trick
is finding an AGP, PCI or PCIe video import card that
accepts YPbPr. They seem to be rare and expensive.
Rarer yet, I imagine, would be the same with DRM-compliant
DVI or HDMI in.

--
Regards, Bob Niland
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.