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#11
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"Peter Cavan" wrote in message ... Hi The thing is, there isn't a CPU fan on the CPU itself. There is just a HS on the CPU. There is a big fan on the back of the case which is vented over the CPU's HS. I think the fan is 12cm, so I don't think you could add a bigger one. Could I add a fan to the existing HS? I'm not sure if it would fit with the vent on top. Thanks PC thats a poor design. i would purchase a quality HS + Fan and remove that case fan. if there are other case fans to move the air, it should be sufficient. or put a smaller fan to replace that obstrusive case fan. there are other options on circulating the case. but the most important part of your problem is getting a proper HS + fan installed. |
#12
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It's not nessarily a 'bad' design, just a different one.
Dell does it that way on purpose. That way, by using a large finned heat-sink on the CPU along with a duct to dirrect the airfow to/from the fan on the rear of the case, they have enough room on the back of the case to use a larger fan. A larger fan can spin at a slower RPM yet give as much airflow as a faster small fan directly on the heat-sink. A slower fan translates into less fan noise, making the system in theory, quiter, which in importatnt to many customers. "127.0.0.1" wrote in message ink.net... "Peter Cavan" wrote in message ... Hi The thing is, there isn't a CPU fan on the CPU itself. There is just a HS on the CPU. There is a big fan on the back of the case which is vented over the CPU's HS. I think the fan is 12cm, so I don't think you could add a bigger one. Could I add a fan to the existing HS? I'm not sure if it would fit with the vent on top. Thanks PC thats a poor design. i would purchase a quality HS + Fan and remove that case fan. if there are other case fans to move the air, it should be sufficient. or put a smaller fan to replace that obstrusive case fan. there are other options on circulating the case. but the most important part of your problem is getting a proper HS + fan installed. |
#13
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"127.0.0.1" wrote in
ink.net: "Peter Cavan" wrote in message ... Hi The thing is, there isn't a CPU fan on the CPU itself. There is just a HS on the CPU. There is a big fan on the back of the case which is vented over the CPU's HS. snip ----- thats a poor design. i would purchase a quality HS + Fan and remove that case fan. if there are other case fans to move the air, it should be sufficient. or put a smaller fan to replace that obstrusive case fan. there are other options on circulating the case. but the most important part of your problem is getting a proper HS + fan installed. /\/\/\/\ Actually .. the ducted fan is state of the art. A fan bolted to the top of a heatsink only recirculates the hot air that collects around it (the bigger the fan you put there .. the faster it recirculates the same hot air). The ducted fan sucks the heat from the CPU and moves it outside the case. In addition ... by "not touching" the CPU heatsink most of the noise associated with CPU cooling is eliminated. If you want to see state of the art thermal design recommendations for PC cases (that look just like what is in your Dell) then look at the thermal PDF file at the ATX formfactor organization site: http://www.formfactors.org/developer...roatxspecs.htm IMHO as always ... campbell |
#14
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"Timothy Drouillard" wrote in message ... It's not nessarily a 'bad' design, just a different one. Dell does it that way on purpose. That way, by using a large finned heat-sink on the CPU along with a duct to dirrect the airfow to/from the fan on the rear of the case, they have enough room on the back of the case to use a larger fan. A larger fan can spin at a slower RPM yet give as much airflow as a faster small fan directly on the heat-sink. A slower fan translates into less fan noise, making the system in theory, quiter, which in importatnt to many customers. a choice of quieter with overheating vs. a bit noisier with efficient cooling.... they are still years behind macintosh designs (cube). i forget what the original processor is. but having no fan on a cpu HS is not a good design. i'd rather see the dell executives cut their bonuses to save on cost than skimping out on proper cpu cooling. |
#15
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Overheating??
Possibly for some people but I don't think so for most of the Dimension 8200 owners. I bought my Dimension 8200 in June of 2002 2.53Ghz (fastest on the market at the time) 1gig PC800 ram Geforce TI4600 36gig WD Raptor 120gig Seagate SATA 250gig WD Audigy 2 Platinum DVD Plextor 52x premium CD-RW 3Com NIC It's been running pretty much 24/7 since I bought it, with absolutley no overheating problems at all. No fans added, subtracted, or modified. Pretty darn quite also. "127.0.0.1" wrote in message ink.net... a choice of quieter with overheating vs. a bit noisier with efficient cooling.... they are still years behind macintosh designs (cube). i forget what the original processor is. but having no fan on a cpu HS is not a good design. i'd rather see the dell executives cut their bonuses to save on cost than skimping out on proper cpu cooling. |
#16
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On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:45:14 +0100, "Peter Cavan"
wrote: Hi The thing is, there isn't a CPU fan on the CPU itself. There is just a HS on the CPU. There is a big fan on the back of the case which is vented over the CPU's HS. I think the fan is 12cm, so I don't think you could add a bigger one. Could I add a fan to the existing HS? I'm not sure if it would fit with the vent on top. Thanks PC You'd probably have to fabricate some sort of attachment method to attach a fan to the existing heatsink. It may be possible but likely worth the $ to just buy a different heatsink instead. With either a fan attached or a different heatsink you'd most likely benefit more from removing the duct than leaving it on. Dave |
#17
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Peter Cavan wrote:
It's 60-70 degrees Celsius. I've done too much stuff to the machine to list all the changes. There is no easy way that I can see to add a fan to the front or side. Contrary to the knee jerk reaction of those who think anything different than what they're used to is a 'bad design', the Dell design, in general, is quite good but knowing what you've changed is precisely what's needed because, odds are, that's where something is sufficiently different, vs what the system was originally designed for, to be causing higher temperatures. I can certainly see why Dell doesn't want to warrantee cover it if there are a ton of changes but did they tell you what the temperature should be? Is the temperature reading you have from the CPU thermal diode or an under socket thermistor? Do you have a case temperature reading? When did it start being 'hot'? After one, or more, of your additions/mods or did it work fine for a while and then suddenly get 'hot', or did it gradually get warmer over time? Do you have it shoved into a closed desk bay so it can't circulate air or is it in the open? Did you move, alter, or remove any internal ducting/air guides? Is that the original CPU? I missed your original post so could you repost the model number so I can check the Dell site for the mechanical layout docs? I was considering a new case that would easily accomodate better cooling, this would involve simply moving everything into a new case. Does anybody know if there would be any problems with moving a Dell system into a non-Dell case? I was thinking, for example, about things like PSUs, power buttons, and front panel USB, headphone etc. Thanks Peter Cavan |
#18
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"TC" wrote in message ... "127.0.0.1" wrote in ink.net: thats a poor design. i would purchase a quality HS + Fan and remove that case fan. if there are other case fans to move the air, it should be sufficient. or put a smaller fan to replace that obstrusive case fan. there are other options on circulating the case. but the most important part of your problem is getting a proper HS + fan installed. /\/\/\/\ Actually .. the ducted fan is state of the art. A fan bolted to the top of a heatsink only recirculates the hot air that collects around it (the bigger the fan you put there .. the faster it recirculates the same hot air). The ducted fan sucks the heat from the CPU and moves it outside the case. In addition ... by "not touching" the CPU heatsink most of the noise associated with CPU cooling is eliminated. If you want to see state of the art thermal design recommendations for PC cases (that look just like what is in your Dell) then look at the thermal PDF file at the ATX formfactor organization site: http://www.formfactors.org/developer...roatxspecs.htm IMHO as always ... campbell I agree 100% In addition a ducted fan system eliminates the "dead zone" effect caused by top mounted fans. The center of the heatsink ... which is the hottest due to where the CPU die is ... doesn't get blown on directly because the top-mounted fan's blades obviously don't go all the way to the middle. In fact, the air there just kind of swirls around in a "vortex" of sorts. Heat only finally escapes when it moves to the outer edges of the heatsink where it is blown on directly. A duct cooling system pulls air across the heatsink sideways, hitting all of the fins, even the hottest ones in the middle ... resulting in much more even cooling of the heatsink fins. And on the noise front .... duct style cooling systems can utilize larger fans, which can move more air at lower RPM. Resulting in even greater reduction in noise generated. It really makes you wonder if this guy thinks that Dell is "cutting costs" by engineering new cooling solutions for each new system they come out with. A duct cooling system involves a custom heatsink, and a custom duct housing which has to be changed for every new system model. I would think that just plonking a decent CPU "HS/fan" type cooler on there would be much easier, and cheaper. Why then re-invent the wheel with each new model? Obviously ... because it WORKS BETTER! Get a clue 127! And TC, thank you for saying what I had been itching to since the first ignorant post I saw from this guy. Drumguy |
#19
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On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:49:12 GMT, TC wrote:
/\/\/\/\ Actually .. the ducted fan is state of the art. Nope, Gateway, Compaq and others have been using passive coolers and ducts since the Pentium 1 days. The CPU runs hotter as a result, then and today. Ductwork is merely cheaper than a high-quality heatsink, which would keep the CPU cooler AND be as quiet. The other benefit is that these systems are being shipped, sometimes great distances under less-than-ideal conditions, so reduced heatsink weight as on the Dells is reducing the chance of RMA due to socket or CPU damage. Proper fan selection is crucial to achieve low noise on an active heatsink, but so it was also when Dell built their ducted system. Dave |
#20
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"kony" wrote in message ... On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 21:49:12 GMT, TC wrote: /\/\/\/\ Actually .. the ducted fan is state of the art. Nope, Gateway, Compaq and others have been using passive coolers and ducts since the Pentium 1 days. The CPU runs hotter as a result, then and today. Ductwork is merely cheaper than a high-quality heatsink, which would keep the CPU cooler AND be as quiet. The other benefit is that these systems are being shipped, sometimes great distances under less-than-ideal conditions, so reduced heatsink weight as on the Dells is reducing the chance of RMA due to socket or CPU damage. Proper fan selection is crucial to achieve low noise on an active heatsink, but so it was also when Dell built their ducted system. Dave And why not go with a cheaper alternative if it works? Sure, the Dell duct cooler may run hotter ... but Dell's main interest is RMA's, and if their coolers didn't keep systems stable they would do something different. The truth is, duct cooling systems ARE better ... they allow Dell to get away with what would seem crazy in terms of the number of fans and individual fan speeds. Imagine a duct system with a whisper quiet 120mm fan pulling as much air as 3 or 4 loud 60mm fans using a well made oversized copper passive heatsink. It would blow away any active cooler you can name. Not to mention pulling all that hot air outside of the case ... which would keep the internal ambient temperatures down. Just because Dell doesn't implement it to the best of it's potential doesn't mean that it's inferior. In fact, it's what allows Dell to achieve stable performance with such (on it's face) inadequate cooling. Drumguy |
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