nVidia F*cked

I've been using nVidia chipsets for some years now.

My current video card is a GF3. I'm very happy with the way it has performed
so far and apart from a few bad 3x.xx driver versions (remember that
infinite loop debacle?), I have no complaints with it. It's getting a bit
long in the tooth now though.

If nVidia can come up with the goods without
resorting to massaging figures & making drivers that fix specific
screw-ups, then I might consider sticking with them.

I'm not forking out for ANYTHING right now. pixel / vertex shader
3.0-compatible hardware is on the horizon from ATi, Nvidia and PowerVR,
possibly others too. I'll wait until these products hit the shelves.

ATI seem to be doing better and not fiddling things - this gives cause
for concerns with nVidia's complacency at the top of the tree.

Nvidia's introing the NV40 line this autumn/winter though, which means they
might be back at the top of the performance food chain. I expect all the
turncoats that fled the sinking NV30 ship to come flocking back to Nvidia's
ranks jeering and screaming at ATi if that happens...

I don't think Nvidia's in any REAL trouble unless NV40 is as limp a dick in
comparison to ATi's offering as NV30 was. I'm gonna wait and see what
happens.

We [The Inquirer] have contacted Valve Software to ask whether it put its
Half Life 2 game and prequel out to bid to graphic chip protagonists ATI and
Nvidia. So far, we haven't heard back from Valve and we wouldn't expect ATI
to comment. But sources close to Nvidia suggest that the bidding could have
reached as much as $8 million before it withdrew from the auction.

Valve made an unprecedented attack on Nvidia and the performance of its
technology last week at an ATI sponsored day.

Half Life 2 is being hyped as a super game, and is, as the saying goes,
"eagerly awaited". A kind of pearl beyond price. But according to our
information, Nvidia withdrew as the bidding rose to ever more crazy heights
and the price of this possible jewel in the crown spiralled. According to
our sources, who stand by the auction story, Nvidia felt, that as graphics
market leader, it would find itself compromised with other games companies
and with its graphics card partners.

If the reports of this auction and these allegations are true, this would
certainly put a different colour on Valve's statements about Nvidia's
benchmarks. We wonder that if such an auction did take place, and if Nvidia
had ended up with a Half Life bundling deal, whether Valve would still have
the same view about its benchmarks.


Full Story

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11552

Thank you, Scooter. That was the point I was trying to make. I was not
trying to argue which company has the best chips. I guess it was too much
for these kids to understand that.

Dave


"Scooter" wrote in message
...
We [The Inquirer] have contacted Valve Software to ask whether it put its
Half Life 2 game and prequel out to bid to graphic chip protagonists ATI
and
Nvidia. So far, we haven't heard back from Valve and we wouldn't expect
ATI
to comment. But sources close to Nvidia suggest that the bidding could
have
reached as much as $8 million before it withdrew from the auction.

Valve made an unprecedented attack on Nvidia and the performance of its
technology last week at an ATI sponsored day.

Half Life 2 is being hyped as a super game, and is, as the saying goes,
"eagerly awaited". A kind of pearl beyond price. But according to our
information, Nvidia withdrew as the bidding rose to ever more crazy
heights
and the price of this possible jewel in the crown spiralled. According to
our sources, who stand by the auction story, Nvidia felt, that as graphics
market leader, it would find itself compromised with other games companies
and with its graphics card partners.

If the reports of this auction and these allegations are true, this would
certainly put a different colour on Valve's statements about Nvidia's
benchmarks. We wonder that if such an auction did take place, and if
Nvidia
had ended up with a Half Life bundling deal, whether Valve would still
have
the same view about its benchmarks.


Full Story

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11552

If the reports of this auction and these allegations are true, this would
certainly put a different colour on Valve's statements about Nvidia's
benchmarks. We wonder that if such an auction did take place, and if
Nvidia
had ended up with a Half Life bundling deal, whether Valve would still
have
the same view about its benchmarks.

Full Story
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11552

The Inquirer is plain full of ****, as always. Their implied accusations are
baseless and inflammatory for no other reason than to stir the pot and make
themselves seem important. You might as well wonder if the INQUIRER is on
the take from NVIDIA to spread such sheer and utter bullcrap. Read this, and
shut your whiney apologist traps-in-denial you and DaveL:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7873

Note: Deano Calver is a games programmer NOT involved with ATi or Valve, and
a pretty smart guy overall so he knows what he is talking about, unlike SOME
people here...

So, can we PLEASE put this bull**** discussion about ATi/Valve collaborating
to make Nvidia look bad to rest? Thank you.

"Lenny" wrote in message
...
If the reports of this auction and these allegations are true, this
would
certainly put a different colour on Valve's statements about Nvidia's
benchmarks. We wonder that if such an auction did take place, and if
Nvidia
had ended up with a Half Life bundling deal, whether Valve would still
have
the same view about its benchmarks.

Full Story
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11552

The Inquirer is plain full of ****, as always. Their implied accusations
are
baseless and inflammatory for no other reason than to stir the pot and
make
themselves seem important. You might as well wonder if the INQUIRER is on
the take from NVIDIA to spread such sheer and utter bullcrap. Read this,
and
shut your whiney apologist traps-in-denial you and DaveL:
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7873

Note: Deano Calver is a games programmer NOT involved with ATi or Valve,
and
a pretty smart guy overall so he knows what he is talking about, unlike
SOME
people here...

So, can we PLEASE put this bull**** discussion about ATi/Valve
collaborating
to make Nvidia look bad to rest? Thank you.


It is still just a guy's opinion. If he is so smart, he should learn to
spell too.

Ed

It is still just a guy's opinion.

Opinion? OPINION?

He's a ****in games programmer for crying out loud who's witnessed sucky
performance by Nvidia hardware and has VERIFIED IT with other games
programmers! John Carmack (of id Software fame) said not too long ago in an
interview that NV3x performance when pixel shading isn't up to snuff. It's
not a ****ing OPINION, it's a proven fact.

When are you people going to stop lying and make excuses?

If he is so smart, he should learn to spell too.

He's obviously smarter than you pal, excellent spelling-ability or not.

Low blow to attack someone for a few misspelled words rather than the actual
content of the post, that's LAME and COWARDLY. Come back when you actually
know what you're talking about, until then go have yourself another nice cup
of sthu since you can't debate properly anyway.

He's a ****in games programmer for crying out loud who's witnessed sucky
performance by Nvidia hardware and has VERIFIED IT with other games
programmers! John Carmack (of id Software fame) said not too long ago in
an
interview that NV3x performance when pixel shading isn't up to snuff. It's
not a ****ing OPINION, it's a proven fact.

When are you people going to stop lying and make excuses?

If he is so smart, he should learn to spell too.

He's obviously smarter than you pal, excellent spelling-ability or not.

Low blow to attack someone for a few misspelled words rather than the
actual
content of the post, that's LAME and COWARDLY. Come back when you actually
know what you're talking about, until then go have yourself another nice
cup
of sthu since you can't debate properly anyway.


Seems like someone is a Deano Calver fan.

People here are giving opinions about what is reported to have been done.
Personally I couldn't care less if ATI was 200% better than Nvidia. As long
as my graphics card runs the game I don't care. I am not going to pay
£300-£400 for a graphics card that will be half price in 8-12 months. Or one
that will be on e-bay for half price because people like you believe
everything they read and MUST buy the best. I will wait till then and
upgrade my card. What will happen when the new PCI standard comes out and
AGP is obsolete or when a new version of Direct X is released. Then we have
to start the arguments again. Personally the idea of Nvidia being finished
should also upset even the hardest ATI fan. If this was to happen and ATI
were the only performance card makers their prices would sore without some
kind of competition. As you said in your last post.

"The Inquirer is plain full of ****, as always. Their implied accusations
are
baseless and inflammatory for no other reason than to stir the pot and make
themselves seem important. You might as well wonder if the INQUIRER is on
the take from NVIDIA to spread such sheer and utter bullcrap. Read this, and
shut your whiney apologist traps-in-denial you and DaveL:"

Why do you trust this Deano Calver so much. He is just another person
writing on the net. He can only use what is at his disposal and he only has
Beta versions of game code and drivers. Until the game is released and I
have seen it myself then I don't really care about reported benchmarks. I am
in no way "in denial". I am not tied to any one graphics card maker and will
chop and change to suit my needs. The last thing I need is someone
condemning every other persons posts because he thinks he is right and has
an ATI logo tattooed to his ass.

Seems like someone is a Deano Calver fan.

I'm a fan of any person who knows his stuff and don't hold on to a flawed
opinion with a death-like grip out of some bizarre sense of loyalty to a
piece of fibreglass board and plastic.

Deano's been a programmer on a number of *shipped* games titles. That gives
him somewhat more expertise when speaking on this subject than most people.
Like, if you were talking about black holes, you'd think an astro-physicist
would know more about those than a stockbroker for example.

Also, he reported what OTHER programmers on OTHER games have experienced as
well, and on top of that we have the things Gabe Newell and John Carmack
(and probably others) have said publically as well, proving his words are
indeed true.

Personally I couldn't care less if ATI was 200% better than Nvidia. As
long
as my graphics card runs the game I don't care. I am not going to pay
£300-£400 for a graphics card that will be half price in 8-12 months. Or
one
that will be on e-bay for half price because people like you believe
everything they read and MUST buy the best.

I don't believe that. I'm just countering the misguided idea there's nothing
wrong with the GFFX (because there is), sorry if that makes you feel
threatened man.

What will happen when the new PCI standard comes out and
AGP is obsolete or when a new version of Direct X is released. Then we
have
to start the arguments again.

Personally the idea of Nvidia being finished
should also upset even the hardest ATI fan.

Nvidia isn't even close to being finished. They're a very financially sound
company, and I don't want to see them finished. I would like to see them
stop cheating and ruining their (previously deservedly) good reputation by
releasing cheating drivers and crippled hardware. Hopefully the NV4x line
will have fixed the current generation's shortcomings so NV won't have to
resort to these scummy tactics. I'm not saying that would suddenly make
everything OK, because they've been bad boys for a while now (and
participated in bad-boy behavior by bullying 3dmark, getting Eidos to pull
the Lara Croft benchmark etc), but it could be a first step on the road to
redemption for them.

Why do you trust this Deano Calver so much. He is just another person
writing on the net.

No, he's not. When will you get that he's a games programmer and knows his
****! If you're talking to someone who is thinking of getting his engine
tuned, would you actually say, "why do you trust this so-and-so so much,
he's just a mechanic!"??? He's a TRAINED AND EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONAL, okay?
He works for a living doing this you know, writing software, making games!

He can only use what is at his disposal and he only has
Beta versions of game code and drivers.

"Only", rofl. He has access to Nvidia's developer relations team, he has the
latest of everything. His drivers are more recent than the ones WE'RE using!
You got everything backwards man if you think even for one second the stuff
we have is better than his.

The last thing I need is someone
condemning every other persons posts because he thinks he is right and has
an ATI logo tattooed to his ass.

Look, I don't have an ATi logo on my ass just because I say Nvidia's current
DX9 implementation is rather sucky. I wouldn't even have a logo tattoed on
my ass if I said ATi's current implementation of DX9 is faster/better than
Nvidia's. I don't even own any current ATi graphics cards (well, I have a
Gamecube if you wanna count that).

Try to look at the issue itself instead of seeing it as an ATi versus Nvidia
thing. I don't wanna see either company go out of business, neither do you.
I want to see BOTH companies play fair. Right now I see Nvidia engage in
scare-tactics, bullying and outright cheating, and a lot of people defending
them while doing so. This is what I'm fighting, not Nvidia's right to exist.

I own and use a Nvidia gfx board (unlike ATi, which I own, but don't use;
that old Rage128 is too slow these days), I want to be able to feel proud of
that, but right now I can't.

"Lenny" wrote in message
...

It is still just a guy's opinion.

Opinion? OPINION?

He's a ****in games programmer for crying out loud who's witnessed sucky
performance by Nvidia hardware and has VERIFIED IT with other games
programmers! John Carmack (of id Software fame) said not too long ago in
an
interview that NV3x performance when pixel shading isn't up to snuff. It's
not a ****ing OPINION, it's a proven fact.

When are you people going to stop lying and make excuses?

If he is so smart, he should learn to spell too.

He's obviously smarter than you pal, excellent spelling-ability or not.

Low blow to attack someone for a few misspelled words rather than the
actual
content of the post, that's LAME and COWARDLY. Come back when you actually
know what you're talking about, until then go have yourself another nice
cup
of sthu since you can't debate properly anyway.


There is nothing lame and cowardly about expecting someone with his
expertise not presenting himself well. I did not, and will not defend NVIDIA
or ATI when they misrepresent their products. As far as his opinion is
concerned, it is still that, an opinion. It was a post on a forum and he
gave HIS opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I have spent over 30yrs in
this quirky business and have never been a "fanboy" of any manufacturer. I
do, however, expect an expert (in software development btw) to present
himself in a light that is commensurate with his abilities.

Ed

There is nothing lame and cowardly about expecting someone with his
expertise not presenting himself well

A person's knowledge is not proportional to said person's ability to spell.
Many very smart people are actually dyslexic and can barely read or write at
all. Attacking someone over that person's ability to spell IS lame and
cowardly, and shows you have no argument to counter with of your own, so
instead you grasp at straws and do an ad hominem attack. That's like, super
lame.

As far as his opinion is
concerned, it is still that, an opinion. It was a post on a forum and he
gave HIS opinion.

It's not an opinion, it's a proven observation. If you look out your window
and see a cat lying on your front lawn and you say to your buddy sitting
next to you, 'hey, there's a cat on my front lawn!', have you just expressed
an OPINION?

No of course not. Don't abuse the language like this. Stop being silly and
make excuses. Not just Deano Calver have made these observations, he's a
trained professional, he's got a documented track history in the games
business. If you want to say he's wrong in some way, please state PRECISELY
how that is the case and present your own credentials instead of trying to
smear him with your lame accusations.