BFG Tech GeForce 7950 GTOC - PC Shutting Off - Temperature Problem?

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 23:11:32 -0700 the
following:

Go into your PC and disconnect and reconnect all your electrical connectors
and also remove and reinsert all your cards. It is possible that one of the
connectors is burnt, faulty or making a poor connection. Perhaps even one of
your add on cards (vid, sound, etc) is not making good contact. This doesn't
even cost 11c, unless you damage something.

I think I might have just found the problem. I didn't even notice these
fans before, but there are two fans there and one of them is out. If this
is overheating, perhaps that's what's shutting the computer down. Here's
an image of it. I'm not sure what the chip under that heatsink does, but
the size of it indicates that it's important to keep it cool.

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg

I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
and just replace them both.

Damaeus

It could be a portion of the VCore regulator is hiding under there.

And using the heatpipe, the fans are also cooling the chipset (indirectly).

Paul

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:47:14 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg

I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
and just replace them both.

It could be a portion of the VCore regulator is hiding under there.

And using the heatpipe, the fans are also cooling the chipset (indirectly).

I had been reading online that ThermTrip doesn't work through the chipset,
but only the CPU. Yet the CPU is just not getting all that hot compared
to the temperature it must reach to start causing problems. I wonder if
some motherboards actually do switch off if the chipset gets too hot. It
does seem like it's important to keep that thing cool with a heatsink like
that.

The fans would be the least expensive thing to replace. I've read that
they can be replaced, but it looks like I'm going to have to actually
remove the motherboard from the case to do it.

I know I should replace that fan since it's out, but do you think that bad
fan could be causing the problem here?

For now, I have lowered the temperature in this room until I'm shivering,
hoping to keep the computer up at least for longer periods of time. I
used it for several hours doing light-duty things, then my friend came on
and kept sending me link after link to view on the web. After about an
hour of that, I had a switch-off.

All the regular case fans have been out in my case for a few years and for
that time, I've just kept the side of the case off and I have a big fan
next to it blowing on medium speed. That gives it far more airflow than
they'd get from the case fans, anyway, and it's worked fine like this for
all this time until the last week and a half. So I really don't think,
myself, that this could be a problem. Even when the electricity has gone
out and I run on the battery backup (the big fan is not connected to the
battery), I've not have power-off issues.

Brrrzzzzrrzrzrz... It's COLD in here! LOL It's in the 30s outside and I
have my window unit running on 65 degrees and the central air on 70
degrees. I didn't know it, but my roommate left the central heat on 74
degrees earlier and it got a bit warmer than usual, then the PC did start
switching itself off. I'm hoping this cooler air will help until I can
get a fan. Meanwhile, I'll just try to avoid doing anything that might be
too intense.

Earlier it shut down after I'd been using Google Street View for a while,
but generally, it remains on and running all night long with no programs
running aside from system tray things like the virus scanner, firewall,
monitor display management, Windows Update. I may turn off the indexing
for this Windows Search 4.0 I just recently got when getting all those
updates, and I'll re-enable it when I get the new fans, assuming I don't
mess something up trying to put them on the motherboard. I'm not looking
forward to this because I could cause more damage than I'm trying to fix.

Damaeus

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "David W. Hodgins"
posted on Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:23:37 -0500
the following:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 20:32:09 -0500, Damaeus wrote:

I don't have enough money to have multiple computer parts lying around. I
do have OLD parts, like a couple of old motherboards. I only have one
power supply and I bought it new back in July 2012.

PSU: Thermaltake SP-850AH3CCB 850w

There should be a sticker on the side, that indicates the
maximum amperage on each rail. What does it show for the +12 V Rail?

Here's a scan of the specification chart that came with the power supply.
I don't know why it says SP-850M. The "pretty painting" on the side of it
says "Smart M850W" and before I installed it, I wrote down what was on the
white label, which was "SP-850AH3CCB 850w". lol

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/sp-850m.jpg

It looks like the 12v rail is rated for 70 amps.

Damaeus

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:47:14 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg

I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to see if I
can switch those fans around so the working one is on the bottom. Then
I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a replacement. So far,
this is the least expensive move to make. And I don't even know when this
fan died. It might have died a long time ago. I'm going to get two fans
and just replace them both.
It could be a portion of the VCore regulator is hiding under there.

And using the heatpipe, the fans are also cooling the chipset (indirectly).

I had been reading online that ThermTrip doesn't work through the chipset,
but only the CPU. Yet the CPU is just not getting all that hot compared
to the temperature it must reach to start causing problems. I wonder if
some motherboards actually do switch off if the chipset gets too hot. It
does seem like it's important to keep that thing cool with a heatsink like
that.

The fans would be the least expensive thing to replace. I've read that
they can be replaced, but it looks like I'm going to have to actually
remove the motherboard from the case to do it.

I know I should replace that fan since it's out, but do you think that bad
fan could be causing the problem here?

For now, I have lowered the temperature in this room until I'm shivering,
hoping to keep the computer up at least for longer periods of time. I
used it for several hours doing light-duty things, then my friend came on
and kept sending me link after link to view on the web. After about an
hour of that, I had a switch-off.

All the regular case fans have been out in my case for a few years and for
that time, I've just kept the side of the case off and I have a big fan
next to it blowing on medium speed. That gives it far more airflow than
they'd get from the case fans, anyway, and it's worked fine like this for
all this time until the last week and a half. So I really don't think,
myself, that this could be a problem. Even when the electricity has gone
out and I run on the battery backup (the big fan is not connected to the
battery), I've not have power-off issues.

Brrrzzzzrrzrzrz... It's COLD in here! LOL It's in the 30s outside and I
have my window unit running on 65 degrees and the central air on 70
degrees. I didn't know it, but my roommate left the central heat on 74
degrees earlier and it got a bit warmer than usual, then the PC did start
switching itself off. I'm hoping this cooler air will help until I can
get a fan. Meanwhile, I'll just try to avoid doing anything that might be
too intense.

Earlier it shut down after I'd been using Google Street View for a while,
but generally, it remains on and running all night long with no programs
running aside from system tray things like the virus scanner, firewall,
monitor display management, Windows Update. I may turn off the indexing
for this Windows Search 4.0 I just recently got when getting all those
updates, and I'll re-enable it when I get the new fans, assuming I don't
mess something up trying to put them on the motherboard. I'm not looking
forward to this because I could cause more damage than I'm trying to fix.

Damaeus

A motherboard designer is free to include thermal protection
for anything they want. I report the "common" implementation,
which is THERMTRIP, and it's virtually free in terms of
hardware cost. Adding protection for other things, may involve
adding some logic. It can even be implemented with transistors
(Asus has done that when they needed to add logic functions).

The disadvantage of adding too many protection features, is
exactly what's happening to you. You can make a PC "too twitchy"
by putting thermal monitoring on everything. For uncommon implementations,
it helps if a LED is present, so you know what's going on.

Again, using an Asus idea from a while back, they put in AGP
slot protection, to protect 1.5V computers from 3.3V
AGP video cards. They included a red LED next to the slot.
If your computer would not start, you'd take the side off and
notice the red LED was illuminated. That's an intelligent way
to design an uncommon feature, so that users know what happened.
Just silently turning off the computer, isn't nearly as
friendly.

*******

Fans come in standard sizes, at least the square ones in brushless
DC form. I have a local electronics store, where I could expect
to find 40mm fans. You can see here, a couple thicknesses for
40mm fans. A thicker fan moves more CFM (cubic feet per minute).
The 10mm thick ones, are the kind you find in disk drive enclosures.
Thicker ones, are in things like your motherboard, or in rackmount
server computers. The small fans spin so fast, they tend to whine
and be annoying, which is why computer cases tend to use larger ones.

http://www.circuittest.com/cooling-f.../fans-dc/12vdc

The fans on video cards are more irregular, and you're less likely
to find an exact replacement when you need one. Replacing the
whole cooler assembly is the answer there.

Measure your fan, before you go shopping for a new one. The thickness
is a variable, whereas the outer (square) dimension tends to be
one of many standards. You also want to determine whether screw holes
are needed or not, for mounting. And whether the fan is to have a two
pin or three pin connector on the end.

The fans these guys sell, just have loose wires on the end. The info
here, says these fans use "locked rotor" for the third signal. If
using this in a computer, you use two of three wires (red and black for
+12V and GND), and tape up and don't use the yellow wire. The third
wire can be "2PP" or two pulse per rotation, an RPM signal which is
useful if the motherboard header has a pin for it. The "locked
rotor" option is preferred on instrumentation, as a fan fail indicator,
but a motherboard usually isn't prepared to deal with that. If you have
a three pin fan header for that 40mm fan, you might at least connect
up +12V and GND. And that's assuming they used a 12V fan. If they were
mean, they could have used a 5V fan. Just hope enough details are
printed on the fan hub, to guide you to a successful replacement.

http://www.circuittest.com/Media/Data/CTCAT-26.pdf

OK, this looks more like a computer-related one. This would be 2pp RPM
on the yellow wire. It's only 5.5CFM. It has the standard computer
connector on the end, so you don't need to add your own connector
like I do with the Circuittest ones.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835706027

This one is 15.8CFM and 9500 RPM. A screamer. You use fans like
this in rackmount servers, where users don't sit next to the
computer(s) for very long.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835706031

So there is some variation in cooling capability. And you have
to observe the existing fan, to know whether it's a wimpy (5.5)
or a screamer (16) CFM fan. The screamer has an audio rating of
41.9 dBA, and anything over 30 dBA you can hear. And because
of the piercing "tone" those small fans make, even 30dBA is
quite evident.

Paul

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Thu, 15 Nov 2012 05:47:14 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-out.jpg

I think in a little bit, until I can get a new fan, I'm going to
see if I can switch those fans around so the working one is on the
bottom. Then I'll take the bad one out and see if I can find a
replacement. So far, this is the least expensive move to make.
And I don't even know when this fan died. It might have died a
long time ago. I'm going to get two fans and just replace them
both.

It could be a portion of the VCore regulator is hiding under there.

And using the heatpipe, the fans are also cooling the chipset
(indirectly).

I had been reading online that ThermTrip doesn't work through the
chipset, but only the CPU. Yet the CPU is just not getting all that
hot compared to the temperature it must reach to start causing
problems. I wonder if some motherboards actually do switch off if
the chipset gets too hot. It does seem like it's important to keep
that thing cool with a heatsink like that.

The fans would be the least expensive thing to replace. I've read
that they can be replaced, but it looks like I'm going to have to
actually remove the motherboard from the case to do it.

I know I should replace that fan since it's out, but do you think
that bad fan could be causing the problem here?

For now, I have lowered the temperature in this room until I'm
shivering, hoping to keep the computer up at least for longer periods
of time. I used it for several hours doing light-duty things, then
my friend came on and kept sending me link after link to view on the
web. After about an hour of that, I had a switch-off.

All the regular case fans have been out in my case for a few years
and for that time, I've just kept the side of the case off and I have
a big fan next to it blowing on medium speed. That gives it far more
airflow than they'd get from the case fans, anyway, and it's worked
fine like this for all this time until the last week and a half. So
I really don't think, myself, that this could be a problem. Even
when the electricity has gone out and I run on the battery backup
(the big fan is not connected to the battery), I've not have
power-off issues.

Brrrzzzzrrzrzrz... It's COLD in here! LOL It's in the 30s outside
and I have my window unit running on 65 degrees and the central air
on 70 degrees. I didn't know it, but my roommate left the central
heat on 74 degrees earlier and it got a bit warmer than usual, then
the PC did start switching itself off. I'm hoping this cooler air
will help until I can get a fan. Meanwhile, I'll just try to avoid
doing anything that might be too intense.

Earlier it shut down after I'd been using Google Street View for a
while, but generally, it remains on and running all night long with
no programs running aside from system tray things like the virus
scanner, firewall, monitor display management, Windows Update. I may
turn off the indexing for this Windows Search 4.0 I just recently got
when getting all those updates, and I'll re-enable it when I get the
new fans, assuming I don't mess something up trying to put them on
the motherboard. I'm not looking forward to this because I could
cause more damage than I'm trying to fix.

Damaeus

Have you tried directing a strong air flow over that failed chipset heatsink
with the failed fan.?
Hopefully you get the new fans installed and things work out. Some of those
chipset heatsinks (if that's what it is, are glued on with a material that
doesn't always conduct heat too well) need to be pried off , cleaned up and
reglued on with good stuff like Artic Silver stuff. There are methods to do
that pretty safely on the Internet.
Best of luck.
Buffalo

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
posted on Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:43:25 -0700 the
following:

Have you tried directing a strong air flow over that failed chipset heatsink
with the failed fan.?
Hopefully you get the new fans installed and things work out. Some of those
chipset heatsinks (if that's what it is, are glued on with a material that
doesn't always conduct heat too well) need to be pried off , cleaned up and
reglued on with good stuff like Artic Silver stuff. There are methods to do
that pretty safely on the Internet.

For a long time, I've had the side off the case with a fan blowing inside
onto the hardware. At first I just used a small desktop fan with no
problem, but that fan died so I put a bigger room-cooling fan next to it.
It moves more air and I had no problems with that, either. I still think
it's this fan next to the chipset heatsink.

I put my window A/C unit on 65 degrees and set the central air on 66
degrees. I was able to keep the PC up and running for over 24 hours.
Daytime set in, and you know it's harder to keep the house cool in the
daytime. My PC shut down sometime late Sunday morning when I ran off and
left a browser game running.

Yes, I definitely think this is a heat issue.

I'm wondering about what speed I should use on the big fan blowing into
the case. I'm running on medium right now, while I had been running it on
low until running into this. I wonder if I should run the fan on high
until I get the little fan replaced. One of the fans sounds like it has
its bearings going out. The fan doesn't make noise all the time, but I
guess when the fan speed is increased or decreased, that's when I hear it,
so it comes and goes. I wondered about any kind of static electricity
from the big fan outside the case. The fan is as big as the case. I have
it blowing in at an angle, but that probably blows against the airflow of
the actual chipset fan that's working -- not that it matters too much. The
top fan only blows air through the top couple of fins on the chipset's
heatsink.

Damaeus

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, "Buffalo"
posted on Sat, 17 Nov 2012 13:43:25 -0700 the
following:

Have you tried directing a strong air flow over that failed chipset heatsink
with the failed fan.?
Hopefully you get the new fans installed and things work out. Some of those
chipset heatsinks (if that's what it is, are glued on with a material that
doesn't always conduct heat too well) need to be pried off , cleaned up and
reglued on with good stuff like Artic Silver stuff. There are methods to do
that pretty safely on the Internet.

For a long time, I've had the side off the case with a fan blowing inside
onto the hardware. At first I just used a small desktop fan with no
problem, but that fan died so I put a bigger room-cooling fan next to it.
It moves more air and I had no problems with that, either. I still think
it's this fan next to the chipset heatsink.

I put my window A/C unit on 65 degrees and set the central air on 66
degrees. I was able to keep the PC up and running for over 24 hours.
Daytime set in, and you know it's harder to keep the house cool in the
daytime. My PC shut down sometime late Sunday morning when I ran off and
left a browser game running.

Yes, I definitely think this is a heat issue.

I'm wondering about what speed I should use on the big fan blowing into
the case. I'm running on medium right now, while I had been running it on
low until running into this. I wonder if I should run the fan on high
until I get the little fan replaced. One of the fans sounds like it has
its bearings going out. The fan doesn't make noise all the time, but I
guess when the fan speed is increased or decreased, that's when I hear it,
so it comes and goes. I wondered about any kind of static electricity
from the big fan outside the case. The fan is as big as the case. I have
it blowing in at an angle, but that probably blows against the airflow of
the actual chipset fan that's working -- not that it matters too much. The
top fan only blows air through the top couple of fins on the chipset's
heatsink.

Damaeus

Have you ordered your replacement fans yet ?

When you remove the fans, also visually inspect that the heatsink
those fans blow on, is making good contact with the source of
the heat. They could use a sil-pad between the heatsink and components,
plus a couple plastic push-pins to hold down the heatsink. You want
to verify the heatsink is still secure, and making good thermal
contact. I would only really be concerned, if it fell off
in your hand.

At least on some motherboards, users discovered the joint between
a chipset-style heatsink and the thing underneath, was "dry". And
there was no thermal compound or sil-pad used. In which case,
the user can make an "improvement" to it, as long as no active
electrical components will end up with thermal compound on them.
So if correcting a manufacturing mistake like that, make sure
you won't accidentally be affecting something, that shouldn't
have paste on it.

(Example of a paste that can fill a small gap. If a large
gap is evident, this wouldn't do the job. It could ooze out.
Large gaps require other kinds of solutions, such as a
silicon rubber that cures in place.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835100018

It's just as likely the heatsink isn't fitting properly, as it
is that the loss of one fan is causing it to overheat.

Paul

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Sun, 18 Nov 2012 01:53:58 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

I'm wondering about what speed I should use on the big fan blowing into
the case. I'm running on medium right now, while I had been running it on
low until running into this. I wonder if I should run the fan on high
until I get the little fan replaced. One of the fans sounds like it has
its bearings going out. The fan doesn't make noise all the time, but I
guess when the fan speed is increased or decreased, that's when I hear it,
so it comes and goes. I wondered about any kind of static electricity
from the big fan outside the case. The fan is as big as the case. I have
it blowing in at an angle, but that probably blows against the airflow of
the actual chipset fan that's working -- not that it matters too much. The
top fan only blows air through the top couple of fins on the chipset's
heatsink.

Have you ordered your replacement fans yet ?

No, I'm going to go buy them at a local computer store if they have them,
after I procure funding. I'm doing some work for someone and I should be
getting something to work with soon.

When you remove the fans, also visually inspect that the heatsink
those fans blow on, is making good contact with the source of
the heat. They could use a sil-pad between the heatsink and components,
plus a couple plastic push-pins to hold down the heatsink. You want
to verify the heatsink is still secure, and making good thermal
contact. I would only really be concerned, if it fell off
in your hand.

There are four pushpins+IBQ-two on the top, and two on the bottom on each side
of the "heat pipe".

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damae...t-heatsink.jpg
(270 KB)

I have never removed that heatsink, nor have I even touched it, and I hope
I don't have to take it off to get the fan off. The head of the screw,
unfortunately, is between the heatsink and the fan housing. But there's a
snap-on panel on the back+IBQ-the one sent by Abit to match the holes to all
the plugs and whatnot on the motherboard so they can be used. I'm hoping
that pulling that panel off will reveal an easy way to change the fans
without having to actually take the motherboard out of the case. If I
have to turn the screws so close the heatsink, I can't see how I can get
around taking that heatsink off. And then, if something is between the
chip and the heatsink, there's the problem of cleaning the heatsink, and
trying to clean the chip underneath without messing it up.

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damae.../fan-screw.jpg
(201 KB)

As it is now, the heatsink should be secure.

By the way, those pictures amaze me because I snapped them while the PC
was running. There is no blur on the CPU fan, but it was spinning when I
took the picture.

At least on some motherboards, users discovered the joint between
a chipset-style heatsink and the thing underneath, was "dry". And
there was no thermal compound or sil-pad used. In which case,
the user can make an "improvement" to it, as long as no active
electrical components will end up with thermal compound on them.
So if correcting a manufacturing mistake like that, make sure
you won't accidentally be affecting something, that shouldn't
have paste on it.

(Example of a paste that can fill a small gap. If a large
gap is evident, this wouldn't do the job. It could ooze out.
Large gaps require other kinds of solutions, such as a
silicon rubber that cures in place.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835100018

It's just as likely the heatsink isn't fitting properly, as it
is that the loss of one fan is causing it to overheat.

Well, the one fan that's out is the fan that blows through the biggest
part of the heatsink. If it was the top fan, I'd be more concerned. Plus,
this computer has never behaved like this before. It's always been really
stable.

Here's what the fan and PC look like as a pair. lol

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damaeus/img/big-fan.jpg
(96 KB)

That setup with the big fan running on high and a temperature in the room
of about 67 degrees, I've seen lower temperature readings across the board
in HWiNFO32, and it has not shut down on me with these lower temperatures.

It took some time, but I'm glad to finally be getting to the root of it.

I actually had HWiNFO32 logging the readings when my PC did shut down
yesterday. The last log in the entry was the last thing my computer
remembered. It's a CSV file in a ZIP. The ZIP is 22k, if you're
interested in seeing. I think that was when I ran off and left a browser
game running, specifically Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy. There was
a lot of CPU activity going on when it powered down.

http://home.earthlink.net/+AH4-damae...hw-statlog.zip

Oh oh oh! I just noticed something in that log. The last entry for the
core clock shows a sudden jump from a normal 2210.2 to 2349.3! What on
Earth would cause my core clock to suddenly jump? That's when it stopped
logging because the PC shut down!

Damaeus

In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Damaeus
posted on Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:24:52
-0600 the following:

Oh oh oh! I just noticed something in that log. The last entry for the
core clock shows a sudden jump from a normal 2210.2 to 2349.3! What on
Earth would cause my core clock to suddenly jump? That's when it stopped
logging because the PC shut down!

I must have gotten excited for nothing. HWiNFO32 shows that my core clock
has been as high as 3142.1 MHz on Core #0, and 3548.5 MHz on Core #1.

Damaeus

PS - It's so cold in here I can hardly type, but the PC loves it.

Damaeus wrote:
In news:alt.comp.periphs.videocards.nvidia, Paul
posted on Sun, 18 Nov 2012 01:53:58 -0500 the following:

Damaeus wrote:

I'm wondering about what speed I should use on the big fan blowing into
the case. I'm running on medium right now, while I had been running it on
low until running into this. I wonder if I should run the fan on high
until I get the little fan replaced. One of the fans sounds like it has
its bearings going out. The fan doesn't make noise all the time, but I
guess when the fan speed is increased or decreased, that's when I hear it,
so it comes and goes. I wondered about any kind of static electricity
from the big fan outside the case. The fan is as big as the case. I have
it blowing in at an angle, but that probably blows against the airflow of
the actual chipset fan that's working -- not that it matters too much. The
top fan only blows air through the top couple of fins on the chipset's
heatsink.
Have you ordered your replacement fans yet ?

No, I'm going to go buy them at a local computer store if they have them,
after I procure funding. I'm doing some work for someone and I should be
getting something to work with soon.

When you remove the fans, also visually inspect that the heatsink
those fans blow on, is making good contact with the source of
the heat. They could use a sil-pad between the heatsink and components,
plus a couple plastic push-pins to hold down the heatsink. You want
to verify the heatsink is still secure, and making good thermal
contact. I would only really be concerned, if it fell off
in your hand.

There are four pushpins—two on the top, and two on the bottom on each side
of the "heat pipe".

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/i...t-heatsink.jpg
(270 KB)

I have never removed that heatsink, nor have I even touched it, and I hope
I don't have to take it off to get the fan off. The head of the screw,
unfortunately, is between the heatsink and the fan housing. But there's a
snap-on panel on the back—the one sent by Abit to match the holes to all
the plugs and whatnot on the motherboard so they can be used. I'm hoping
that pulling that panel off will reveal an easy way to change the fans
without having to actually take the motherboard out of the case. If I
have to turn the screws so close the heatsink, I can't see how I can get
around taking that heatsink off. And then, if something is between the
chip and the heatsink, there's the problem of cleaning the heatsink, and
trying to clean the chip underneath without messing it up.

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/fan-screw.jpg
(201 KB)

As it is now, the heatsink should be secure.

By the way, those pictures amaze me because I snapped them while the PC
was running. There is no blur on the CPU fan, but it was spinning when I
took the picture.

At least on some motherboards, users discovered the joint between
a chipset-style heatsink and the thing underneath, was "dry". And
there was no thermal compound or sil-pad used. In which case,
the user can make an "improvement" to it, as long as no active
electrical components will end up with thermal compound on them.
So if correcting a manufacturing mistake like that, make sure
you won't accidentally be affecting something, that shouldn't
have paste on it.

(Example of a paste that can fill a small gap. If a large
gap is evident, this wouldn't do the job. It could ooze out.
Large gaps require other kinds of solutions, such as a
silicon rubber that cures in place.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835100018

It's just as likely the heatsink isn't fitting properly, as it
is that the loss of one fan is causing it to overheat.

Well, the one fan that's out is the fan that blows through the biggest
part of the heatsink. If it was the top fan, I'd be more concerned. Plus,
this computer has never behaved like this before. It's always been really
stable.

Here's what the fan and PC look like as a pair. lol

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/img/big-fan.jpg
(96 KB)

That setup with the big fan running on high and a temperature in the room
of about 67 degrees, I've seen lower temperature readings across the board
in HWiNFO32, and it has not shut down on me with these lower temperatures.

It took some time, but I'm glad to finally be getting to the root of it.

I actually had HWiNFO32 logging the readings when my PC did shut down
yesterday. The last log in the entry was the last thing my computer
remembered. It's a CSV file in a ZIP. The ZIP is 22k, if you're
interested in seeing. I think that was when I ran off and left a browser
game running, specifically Total Domination: Nuclear Strategy. There was
a lot of CPU activity going on when it powered down.

http://home.earthlink.net/~damaeus/dl/hw-statlog.zip

Oh oh oh! I just noticed something in that log. The last entry for the
core clock shows a sudden jump from a normal 2210.2 to 2349.3! What on
Earth would cause my core clock to suddenly jump? That's when it stopped
logging because the PC shut down!

Damaeus

In the Newegg photo, I can't see any screws in those fans.
I do see a white material underneath the fans, like they
were held in place with double-sided tape.

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...127-237-03.jpg

( from http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813127237 )

You're going to be pulling that board, to do the repair.

If that is double-sided tape they've used, you'll need a
bit of that as well. So the repair will actually be an
ugly job, not a nice neat one.

You don't want to use any material you can't get off again,
such as two component epoxy. That would be a mistake (unless
your plan is to replace the motherboard/CPU/RAM when the next
failure occurs).

And no matter how you do it, the clearances there are rather tight.
You have to make sure the fans don't jam on the backplate, or
on the heatsink on the other side of the fan.

You would have thought they'd have made the aluminum heatsink,
as a retainer for the fans. That would have been a logical
way to do it. And making heatsinks is easy when
they're extruded. And the companies that make heatsinks, they
can make any shape you want in cross-section. But things
you'd want to avoid, would be post-machining, such as tapping
the holes and putting nice threads in them. That's why, when
fans are fitted in other places, they use self-tapping
screws. But screws on an assembly line are a no-no,
as most of the other steps in manufacturing are automated.
Only the two minute final test, is manual. And that's
a pretty expensive operation, if you make four million
motherboards a month. Using tape, as it appears they've
done, avoids metal filings from self-tapping screws, and
it's a bit cleaner. It is still time consuming, and I don't
think any automatic pick-n-place machine can "do tape".

Um, Good Luck,

Paul