warehouse club warning

Crownfield wrote:
SamSez wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message ...

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
sticker, etc.

I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.

Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.

When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
the same stuff is inside.

did the wrappers look similar,
or were the product numbers the same?

many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.

The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very similar but
not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.

I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that level of
sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with prescription
drugs, I dare you...]

Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second window on
Ilford's website.

As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?


the same.
ask sams why they mislabeled an ilford product.
note that both are 250/260 g/m weight
sams does not define brightness.
ilford does.
I hate to tell you this, but Sam's doesn't make, or pack, the paper.
They specify the paper specs, and the supplier supplies them packaged as
specified, and at the agreed upon price. I seriously doubt Sam's even
examines actual shipped material to verify quality (they SHOULD).
So, who do you blame here?


--
Ron Hunter

Ron Hunter wrote:

SamSez wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
Walmart, I
expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
sticker, etc.

I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.

Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.

When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation
that
the same stuff is inside.


did the wrappers look similar,
or were the product numbers the same?

many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.



The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
similar but
not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.

I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
level of
sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
prescription
drugs, I dare you...]

Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
window on
Ilford's website.

As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
Range Smooth
Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie
Professional Inkjet
Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?




Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.


I can't see that. These stores provide the manufacturers with
specifications that lead into a contract. Big stores have departments
that inspect the goods and see that the products they buy do meet the
specifications they pay for. If Ilford was doing that kind of stuff
then I am sure they would intermittently short their own dealers and
sooner or later they would get caught.

SamSez wrote:
"Marvin" wrote in message
...

Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:

"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the


This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
(always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
example.

-Joel

That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a top-name

designer may look

similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are differences

in the material and

the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.


I would claim that this is RARELY the case for other kinds of products -- at
least when they are from the SAME maker and LABELED with the SAME LABEL.


Very often a large chain of stores will order a product, such as a
computer, built to their specifications, and it will have a model number
specific to that chain. This prevents direct comparisons of pricing
between store chains, and makes claims of matching prices on 'identical
merchandise' a safe bet. A wise purchaser keeps aware of such ploys,
and does his homework, examines products, and KNOWS what he is buying.
To do less courts disappointment.


--
Ron Hunter

"measekite" wrote in message
...


SamSez wrote:

"measekite" wrote in message
news
Pete wrote:


On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:29:28 GMT, SamSez wrote:




I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie
Professional
Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and
through
their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet

Photo

Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and
one

of

the pearl.

Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that
it was
different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range
Smooth

Pearl

Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a
duller
finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.

Here's Ilford's response:

"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed.
the

Sam`s

Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in
Pro
dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the
media

in

the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our
dealer
channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very

different

for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the

media

via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be
passed

over

to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same
standards

is

very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the
Sam`s
version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
generally. "

Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for
two

"very

different" products.

Sigh....



Any company that pulls tricks like this deserves to go bankrupt.
Ooops...
Ilford IS bankrupt. Justice?



Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.


Pete




In case I didn't make it clear enough in my original post, they did NOT
give it
a different name. That is my point.


In that case they misrepresented the product. Many times over a few year
period the same product changes packaging but the name is the same. You
then have a right to assume that the product is identical. I have on many
occassions see the same product on the shelf with different packaging
during the change over. Sometimes the product says it is new and
improved. Sometimes it is and other times it is just marketing bull****.


You'll find the only 'rights' you have relate to the product being as
advertised. If the paper sold as "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes" was as described *on the
pack* then there's no comeback.

The fact it's not the same paper as sold elsewhere is irrelevant.

"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
SamSez wrote:
"Marvin" wrote in message
...

Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:

"Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
dissapointed. the Sam`s Club version of our media is NOT the same as
the general brand found in Pro dealers and is NOT covered in the


This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
(always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
example.

-Joel

That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a
top-name

designer may look

similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are
differences

in the material and

the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.


I would claim that this is RARELY the case for other kinds of products -- at
least when they are from the SAME maker and LABELED with the SAME LABEL.


Very often a large chain of stores will order a product, such as a
computer, built to their specifications, and it will have a model number
specific to that chain. This prevents direct comparisons of pricing
between store chains, and makes claims of matching prices on 'identical
merchandise' a safe bet. A wise purchaser keeps aware of such ploys,
and does his homework, examines products, and KNOWS what he is buying.
To do less courts disappointment.


--
Ron Hunter

Sorry Ron, but when the name on the box is ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL, what more can
you 'know' short of opening the package? If you bought a box of Kellogg's Corn
Flakes at a warehouse club, what would YOU expect to be inside -- seriously?
Something different than what you buy at Piggly-Wiggly? I doubt it.

"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
Douglas wrote:

snipped

God bless America,
land of the free,
home of the brave and you better not say otherwise or they'll bomb you
off the face of the Earth!


Your misconceptions of laws in the US are downright amusing. Such
practices ARE illegal here, and any company who did what you describe
would be in big trouble. Mislabeling food products can result in some
ugly legal problems.

And you are WAY out of line with the last sentence.


--
Ron Hunter

Correct me if I'm wrong here but hasn't the USA gone to war against that
little country in the middle east where they get their oil from in same
manner Hitler did towards Germany's neighbours in the '30's and bombed the
**** out of the people of that nation for disagreeing with the USA?

Now George Bush is telling everyone he'll get Australia to help bash up one
of Australia's largest trading partners (China) because they (China) want
the island of Taiwan to re-join the unified China and you lot don't think
that's a good idea because you get a major portion of your car parts,
chemicals and electronic components cheap from them because it's too costly
to comply with US environmental laws and make them in your own country.

What is about Americans that makes them so aggressive towards anyone who
disagree with them? And you have the cheek to tell me I'm out of line for
stating the truth. These are not the actions of civilised people or a for
that matter, a civilised nation. China is a nuclear nation with as much
military capacity and the ability to use it as the USA. What are you lot
trying to do? Bring on another ice age? Not a Red Necked, flag waving Yankee
yourself are you?

Get on over to Australia and witness first hand how US companies are
behaving before you get on your high horse and pass judgment on one of their
victims for stating the truth.

New Zealand has better lamb chops!

Douglas wrote:

"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...


Douglas wrote:



snipped



God bless America,
land of the free,
home of the brave and you better not say otherwise or they'll bomb you
off the face of the Earth!




Your misconceptions of laws in the US are downright amusing. Such
practices ARE illegal here, and any company who did what you describe
would be in big trouble. Mislabeling food products can result in some
ugly legal problems.

And you are WAY out of line with the last sentence.


--
Ron Hunter



Correct me if I'm wrong here but hasn't the USA gone to war against that
little country in the middle east where they get their oil from in same
manner Hitler did towards Germany's neighbours in the '30's and bombed the
**** out of the people of that nation for disagreeing with the USA?

Now George Bush is telling everyone he'll get Australia to help bash up one
of Australia's largest trading partners (China) because they (China) want
the island of Taiwan to re-join the unified China and you lot don't think
that's a good idea because you get a major portion of your car parts,
chemicals and electronic components cheap from them because it's too costly
to comply with US environmental laws and make them in your own country.

What is about Americans that makes them so aggressive towards anyone who
disagree with them? And you have the cheek to tell me I'm out of line for
stating the truth. These are not the actions of civilised people or a for
that matter, a civilised nation. China is a nuclear nation with as much
military capacity and the ability to use it as the USA. What are you lot
trying to do? Bring on another ice age? Not a Red Necked, flag waving Yankee
yourself are you?

Get on over to Australia and witness first hand how US companies are
behaving before you get on your high horse and pass judgment on one of their
victims for stating the truth.

Douglas wrote:
"Ron Hunter" wrote in message
...
Douglas wrote:

snipped

God bless America,
land of the free,
home of the brave and you better not say otherwise or they'll bomb
you off the face of the Earth!


Your misconceptions of laws in the US are downright amusing. Such
practices ARE illegal here, and any company who did what you describe
would be in big trouble. Mislabeling food products can result in
some ugly legal problems.

And you are WAY out of line with the last sentence.


--
Ron Hunter

Correct me if I'm wrong here

snip

stating the truth.


The formerly respectable Douglas has degenerated into a hysterical
soont. Some folks can't believe they exist without excessive amounts of
adrenaline and bile coursing through their systems, and if no
appropriate occasion arises, they will manufacture one out of whole
cloth.

Never mind embarrassing himself and all his country-mates, he's
asssuring himself of constant discomfort and early incapacitation and
demise. He should take my earlier advice: leave these groups and relax.


--
Frank ess

measekite wrote:


Ron Hunter wrote:

SamSez wrote:

"Crownfield" wrote in message
...

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from
Walmart, I
expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
sticker, etc.

I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.

Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.

When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation
that
the same stuff is inside.



did the wrappers look similar,
or were the product numbers the same?

many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.




The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very
similar but
not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.

I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that
level of
sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with
prescription
drugs, I dare you...]

Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second
window on
Ilford's website.

As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
Range Smooth
Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie
Professional Inkjet
Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?




Sounds like Ilford was scamming Sam's as well as the end user.



I can't see that. These stores provide the manufacturers with
specifications that lead into a contract. Big stores have departments
that inspect the goods and see that the products they buy do meet the
specifications they pay for. If Ilford was doing that kind of stuff
then I am sure they would intermittently short their own dealers and
sooner or later they would get caught.


Still Iiford should use a different name when they have that much
difference in materials. Like many mattress companies selling basically
the same mattress with different names and patterns. Ilford's liable to
make such a confusion. I seriously doubt Sams Club would care if it's
called something else as long as the big Ilford name is there. And most
people working there and shoppers don't know much about paper, unlike
us, the educated consumers.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:02:55 -0600, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
in wrote:

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
In article ,
measekite wrote:


The nice thing about Costco is that
they have a return policy unmatched by other.


They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.



Sams club is Walmart. I
do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
advantage of doing business with them.


You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.

Interesting. Wal-Mart has about the best profit sharing arrangement in
US industry. I wouldn't feel too sorry for their employees.

Do you get it if you work part-time? Because they try very hard to
ensure that their employees don't get enough hours to get health care,
so I wonder if they make it easier to get profit sharing.


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.