Epson Photo Stylus 1200.

Rob. wrote:
Frank wrote:
measekite, an idiot wrote:


If that is the case then one has to ask why this so called manual is
not posted online as some kind of a pdf document.

I have a better question...why are you so stupid?...or are you too

stupid to even answer that question?
Frank

Hey Frank

I am suprised that he didn't pick up point 5.

"5) I use non-Epson inks because of the great difference in price and
generally the colour-matching isn't important as the images are only to
illustrate the text - it's mainly photographs and such where it is
important"

Oh so you are telling ...LOL that photographers should use OEM to get
the best results. I agree.

On Apr 6, 6:42 am, "Rob." . wrote:
Frank wrote:
measekite, an idiot wrote:

If that is the case then one has to ask why this so called manual is
not posted online as some kind of a pdf document.

I have a better question...why are you so stupid?...or are you too

stupid to even answer that question?
Frank

Hey Frank

I am suprised that he didn't pick up point 5.

"5) I use non-Epson inks because of the great difference in price and
generally the colour-matching isn't important as the images are only to
illustrate the text - it's mainly photographs and such where it is
important"


If you are printing with nonEpson inks then you have to get custom
profiles for every ink/paper combo you use. There are good 3rd paprty
ink vendors but some will just change the formulation of there ink or
change ink suppliers and then you suddenly baut results when you put
in a new cartridge. Look for 3rd party ink vendors who have profiles
on their site, I understand some do, but I use OEM inks and haven't
been looking. If you just buy the cheapest you can end up paying
later. Profiles from Epson will not work with your current setup,
chances are neither will canned profiles from paper manufacturers.

Tom

Thanks very much Tommy,

I was going to ask from where and how I could get custom profiles but you've
answered my question!

As a matter of interest, I know I may sound a cheapskate for buying a
compatible ink instead of the geniune article but the Epson ink costs
anything up to 10 times more per cartridge and yet I've had the printer for
eight years now, printing, on an average, a dozen or so sheets per day,
seven days a week, both in my work and my hobby - you can imagine the money
I've saved!

On top of that, for most of the time, the image quality has been quite
acceptable for what I have been using it. Okay, now it's not and I may have
to buy another printer!

No rudeness was intented, Tommy, honest! I just thought I'd like to explain
why I'm doing something that others may think stupid!

Thanks again, Tommy,

John

On Apr 7, 10:06 am, "John Vanini" wrote:
Thanks very much Tommy,

I was going to ask from where and how I could get custom profiles but you've
answered my question!

As a matter of interest, I know I may sound a cheapskate for buying a
compatible ink instead of the geniune article but the Epson ink costs
anything up to 10 times more per cartridge and yet I've had the printer for
eight years now, printing, on an average, a dozen or so sheets per day,
seven days a week, both in my work and my hobby - you can imagine the money
I've saved!

On top of that, for most of the time, the image quality has been quite
acceptable for what I have been using it. Okay, now it's not and I may have
to buy another printer!

No rudeness was intented, Tommy, honest! I just thought I'd like to explain
why I'm doing something that others may think stupid!

Thanks again, Tommy,

John


Well Johnny,
I used 3rd party inks when that was the only way to get long lasting
ink that had a large gamut (say 1999 - 2004). To do this commercially
it was a lot of work, I couldn't say oh its close, my clients wanted
right on the money. So every paper had to be linearized, just
selecting a similar paper didn't work, and profiled. Profiles worked
slightly differently for scanned and photo from digital cameras. So
I'm not condeming you for using 3 rd party inks, I understand it saves
money, but there is a lot of work to get those inks to behave like OEM
inks, doesn't happen out of the box.
I am now doing my own work from a Canon iPF 5000, I'm really happy I
can just print and concentrate on the image rather than fiddling with
profiling etc. A printer that gives fine prints right out of the box
is a relief. I don't waste paper and ink getting off color results or
almost results, prints are right on. Nice thing to know is almost any
printer Canon Epson or HP will now do this, with OEM inks.

Tom

tomm42 wrote:

On Apr 7, 10:06 am, "John Vanini" wrote:



Thanks very much Tommy, I was going to ask from where and how I could get custom profiles but you've answered my question! As a matter of interest, I know I may sound a cheapskate for buying a compatible ink instead of the geniune article but the Epson ink costs anything up to 10 times more per cartridge and yet I've had the printer for eight years now, printing, on an average, a dozen or so sheets per day, seven days a week, both in my work and my hobby - you can imagine the money I've saved! On top of that, for most of the time, the image quality has been quite acceptable for what I have been using it. Okay, now it's not and I may have to buy another printer! No rudeness was intented, Tommy, honest! I just thought I'd like to explain why I'm doing something that others may think stupid! Thanks again, Tommy, John



Well Johnny, I used 3rd party inks when that was the only way to get long lasting ink that had a large gamut (say 1999 - 2004). To do this commercially it was a lot of work, I couldn't say oh its close, my clients wanted right on the money.

Professional use OEM ink.  Professionals who use Epson and choose pigmented ink use Epson ink.  How can one call themselves a professional and dump crap generic ink on their customers where fading can be a problem.


So every paper had to be linearized, just selecting a similar paper didn't work, and profiled. Profiles worked slightly differently for scanned and photo from digital cameras. So I'm not condeming you for using 3 rd party inks, I understand it saves money, but there is a lot of work to get those inks to behave like OEM inks, doesn't happen out of the box. I am now doing my own work from a Canon iPF 5000, I'm really happy I can just print and concentrate on the image rather than fiddling with profiling etc. A printer that gives fine prints right out of the box is a relief. I don't waste paper and ink getting off color results or almost results, prints are right on. Nice thing to know is almost any printer Canon Epson or HP will now do this, with OEM inks.

OEM ink is the way to go.


Tom

Measekite.
Back in 1999 when I bought my Epson 9000, a 44 inch printer,
admittedly knowing not much about LF printing. The Epson OEM ink for
this printer at Wilhelm's most optomistic was 2 years, couldn't do
what I wanted to with that admittedly short lasting ink. So I switched
to an ink call Pinnacle Gold by American Ink Jet. There was a couple
of tests on it in Wilhelm, about 50 years with a FA paper. I quickly
learned how to linearize and profile papers. I also learned how to
test as this was a dye based ink with all the paper ink problems that
go with dye based inks. Luckily I had a south facing picture window
with at least 8 hrs of sun a day, not scientific at all but I knew if
a print lasted several weeks in the window no one would be coming
after me for faded images.
One bad experience I was using a canvas that was treating me well and
the manufacturer discontinued it. I was right in the middle of
printing some 40x60 canvases for an artist. A month after changing
canvases in that job the artist was back wondering why half his
canvases had faded, hadn't had a chance to test. The only canvas I
could find that the dealer would say would last with dye inks was
canvas for an IRIS printer at 3X what I paid for the original, but it
worked.
Other owners went to 3rd party pigment inks, by Media Street, MIS and
Bull Dog but they had more clogging problems. No one I knew ever used
Epson ink in the 9000.
Just useing 3rd party inks as a necessity.

Tom

tomm42 wrote:
Measekite.
Back in 1999 when I bought my Epson 9000, a 44 inch printer,
admittedly knowing not much about LF printing. The Epson OEM ink for
this printer at Wilhelm's most optomistic was 2 years, couldn't do
what I wanted to with that admittedly short lasting ink. So I switched
to an ink call Pinnacle Gold by American Ink Jet. There was a couple
of tests on it in Wilhelm, about 50 years with a FA paper. I quickly
learned how to linearize and profile papers. I also learned how to
test as this was a dye based ink with all the paper ink problems that
go with dye based inks. Luckily I had a south facing picture window
with at least 8 hrs of sun a day, not scientific at all but I knew if
a print lasted several weeks in the window no one would be coming
after me for faded images.
One bad experience I was using a canvas that was treating me well and
the manufacturer discontinued it. I was right in the middle of
printing some 40x60 canvases for an artist. A month after changing
canvases in that job the artist was back wondering why half his
canvases had faded, hadn't had a chance to test. The only canvas I
could find that the dealer would say would last with dye inks was
canvas for an IRIS printer at 3X what I paid for the original, but it
worked.
Other owners went to 3rd party pigment inks, by Media Street, MIS and
Bull Dog but they had more clogging problems. No one I knew ever used
Epson ink in the 9000.
Just useing 3rd party inks as a necessity.

Tom

Tom
I do not own an Epson printer. I prefer Canon. However, the Epson 3800
appears to be maybe a little bit better than the Canon 5100 but that is
based on Epson standing behind their printer a little better then Canon
as far as warranty.

However, with the Ultrachrome K3 ink there is not aftermarket crap that
can come close. But Pantone may be an alternative but it too is expensive.

Luminous Landscape recently tested the large format 17" and wider
printers (HP, Epson, and Canon) and while they saw differences in
results they were based on taste and not quality. Basically they
determined that the quality from all were about equal. However the
specifically mentioned the BW quality of the Epson.

You will hear from many idiots that buy the garbage stuff and have all
sorts of problems on this ng. I enjoy reading about their troubles.
They do deserve it.

This gives a great bit of background to consider in regard to 3rd party
inks. Certainly, for many the use of non-OEM is an economic one
exclusively, but what your experience proves is that 3rd party inks
provide way of forwarding the technology, providing alternatives when
OEM may not do the trick, a way to potentially save money, and in many
cases a form of competition which "encourages" the OEM companies to get
back to the drawingboard and improve or create better consumables.

This is exactly how the the economic system should work, and it has done
a great deal to move this technology further. Assuming that only the
major inkjet manufacturers would have all the expertise, creative ideas
and research would have been a great error of judgment, and would have
dramatically slowed the progress in this technology.

And, BTW there are some amazing things coming down the tubes in inkjet
technologies from 3rd party suppliers. Just wait.

Art

tomm42 wrote:
Measekite.
Back in 1999 when I bought my Epson 9000, a 44 inch printer,
admittedly knowing not much about LF printing. The Epson OEM ink for
this printer at Wilhelm's most optomistic was 2 years, couldn't do
what I wanted to with that admittedly short lasting ink. So I switched
to an ink call Pinnacle Gold by American Ink Jet. There was a couple
of tests on it in Wilhelm, about 50 years with a FA paper. I quickly
learned how to linearize and profile papers. I also learned how to
test as this was a dye based ink with all the paper ink problems that
go with dye based inks. Luckily I had a south facing picture window
with at least 8 hrs of sun a day, not scientific at all but I knew if
a print lasted several weeks in the window no one would be coming
after me for faded images.
One bad experience I was using a canvas that was treating me well and
the manufacturer discontinued it. I was right in the middle of
printing some 40x60 canvases for an artist. A month after changing
canvases in that job the artist was back wondering why half his
canvases had faded, hadn't had a chance to test. The only canvas I
could find that the dealer would say would last with dye inks was
canvas for an IRIS printer at 3X what I paid for the original, but it
worked.
Other owners went to 3rd party pigment inks, by Media Street, MIS and
Bull Dog but they had more clogging problems. No one I knew ever used
Epson ink in the 9000.
Just useing 3rd party inks as a necessity.

Tom

On Apr 10, 6:31 pm, measekite wrote:
tomm42 wrote:
Measekite.
Back in 1999 when I bought my Epson 9000, a 44 inch printer,
admittedly knowing not much about LF printing. The Epson OEM ink for
this printer at Wilhelm's most optomistic was 2 years, couldn't do
what I wanted to with that admittedly short lasting ink. So I switched
to an ink call Pinnacle Gold by American Ink Jet. There was a couple
of tests on it in Wilhelm, about 50 years with a FA paper. I quickly
learned how to linearize and profile papers. I also learned how to
test as this was a dye based ink with all the paper ink problems that
go with dye based inks. Luckily I had a south facing picture window
with at least 8 hrs of sun a day, not scientific at all but I knew if
a print lasted several weeks in the window no one would be coming
after me for faded images.
One bad experience I was using a canvas that was treating me well and
the manufacturer discontinued it. I was right in the middle of
printing some 40x60 canvases for an artist. A month after changing
canvases in that job the artist was back wondering why half his
canvases had faded, hadn't had a chance to test. The only canvas I
could find that the dealer would say would last with dye inks was
canvas for an IRIS printer at 3X what I paid for the original, but it
worked.
Other owners went to 3rd party pigment inks, by Media Street, MIS and
Bull Dog but they had more clogging problems. No one I knew ever used
Epson ink in the 9000.
Just useing 3rd party inks as a necessity.

Tom

Tom
I do not own an Epson printer. I prefer Canon. However, the Epson 3800
appears to be maybe a little bit better than the Canon 5100 but that is
based on Epson standing behind their printer a little better then Canon
as far as warranty.

However, with the Ultrachrome K3 ink there is not aftermarket crap that
can come close. But Pantone may be an alternative but it too is expensive.

Luminous Landscape recently tested the large format 17" and wider
printers (HP, Epson, and Canon) and while they saw differences in
results they were based on taste and not quality. Basically they
determined that the quality from all were about equal. However the
specifically mentioned the BW quality of the Epson.

You will hear from many idiots that buy the garbage stuff and have all
sorts of problems on this ng. I enjoy reading about their troubles.
They do deserve it.


Hey as I said in my earlier post I really like my iPF5000, always nice
prints, very little fuss. I'd do Canon over Epson again, though I
didn't buy a Canon for work, I should have. Canon now covers their
head and ink tanks with the first years warranty, a major overlook on
their initial warranty. But they don't cover heads in their extended
warranties, I have had wide format printers as I said since 1999, the
extended warranties are almost a necessity if someting goes wrong with
the printer. If a head goes down on an Epson it would be more
expensive to replace than the $900 for the two Canon heads. Based on
fees the repair services charge, including travel charges. Though with
a 3800 you may be able to ship it to a service center.
After having gone through trying to get the best prints possible with
3rd party inks I do have to admit enjoying "well the prints aren't as
good but I'm saving money".
Happy printing

Tom

Arthur Entlich wrote:
This gives a great bit of background to consider in regard to 3rd
party inks. Certainly, for many the use of non-OEM is an economic one
exclusively, but what your experience proves is that 3rd party inks
provide way of forwarding the technology, providing alternatives when
OEM may not do the trick, a way to potentially save money, and in many
cases a form of competition which "encourages" the OEM companies to
get back to the drawingboard and improve or create better consumables.
That is ridiculuous

This is exactly how the the economic system should work,
it does not
and it has done a great deal to move this technology further.
Assuming that only the major inkjet manufacturers would have all the
expertise, creative ideas and research would have been a great error
of judgment,
not really. Pantone is one of the very few ink mfg that does not make
their own printer. I think the ink costs more than OEM.
and would have dramatically slowed the progress in this technology.

And, BTW there are some amazing things coming down the tubes in
inkjet technologies from 3rd party suppliers.
They are just web resellers. And most do not have full disclosure of
what they are selling.
Just wait.

Art

tomm42 wrote:
Measekite.
Back in 1999 when I bought my Epson 9000, a 44 inch printer,
admittedly knowing not much about LF printing. The Epson OEM ink for
this printer at Wilhelm's most optomistic was 2 years, couldn't do
what I wanted to with that admittedly short lasting ink. So I switched
to an ink call Pinnacle Gold by American Ink Jet. There was a couple
of tests on it in Wilhelm, about 50 years with a FA paper. I quickly
learned how to linearize and profile papers. I also learned how to
test as this was a dye based ink with all the paper ink problems that
go with dye based inks. Luckily I had a south facing picture window
with at least 8 hrs of sun a day, not scientific at all but I knew if
a print lasted several weeks in the window no one would be coming
after me for faded images.
One bad experience I was using a canvas that was treating me well and
the manufacturer discontinued it. I was right in the middle of
printing some 40x60 canvases for an artist. A month after changing
canvases in that job the artist was back wondering why half his
canvases had faded, hadn't had a chance to test. The only canvas I
could find that the dealer would say would last with dye inks was
canvas for an IRIS printer at 3X what I paid for the original, but it
worked.
Other owners went to 3rd party pigment inks, by Media Street, MIS and
Bull Dog but they had more clogging problems. No one I knew ever used
Epson ink in the 9000.
Just useing 3rd party inks as a necessity.

Tom