Kodak re-enters inkjet biz

DK wrote:


I really like the idea of getting all new nozzles when I get a new
cartridge. Kodak does NOT give you new nozzles with ink.

So how will Kodak handle the nozzles getting clogged?

That's my problem with the new Kodaks. I'm glad they are trying to change the
business model, but I hope the print heads are easily (and cheaply) replaceable.

I had to give up on Epsons I liked alot because they were in a very dry climate
and only used once or twice a week. Inevitably they would plug up.

I guess we'll see... Canon, Epson, and some HPs also have
semi-permanent or permanent heads. It seems most manufacturers are
moving that way.

Art

DK wrote:

I really like the idea of getting all new nozzles when I get a new
cartridge. Kodak does NOT give you new nozzles with ink.

So how will Kodak handle the nozzles getting clogged?

Greetings TJ,

Ah, I see and understand. Glad to help anyone that wants it, on anything I
know.

Talk to you soon,

Ron Baird
Eastman Kodak Company

"TJ" wrote in message
.. .
Ron Baird wrote:
Greetings Measekit,

Talk to you soon, Measekit, I should be around.

Ron Baird
Eastman Kodak Company


Not much point. He'll just question your motives for posting here and your
veracity, and he won't believe anything that Canon, PC Mag, PC World, or
Wilhelm don't tell him to believe.

TJ

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Greetings DK,

There is a cleaning process similar to other printers, but it does not use a
lot of ink in the doing. Kodak also has set aside specific parts of the head
to cover for any clogs that might occur temporarily. So, you are not going
to miss out on any printing. Prints will continue to be excellent. As the
clog is cleared, things return to normal.

Actually, Kodak has included two cleaning options Normal clean and a Deep
Clean. The Deep Clean is not generally needed and so is rarely suggested. If
you run into a problem, it can be used in extremes.
To clean printhead from computer

1 Start the AiO Home Center (software that comes with the printer)
2 Click to open the Help panel.
3 Under General Links, click Maintenance.
4 Click Printhead Cleaning.

To clean printhead from control panel pf the software,

1 Press Menu to display the Main Menu.
2 Press ?? until Clean Printhead is selected.
3 Press OK to go to the Clean Printhead menu.
4 Press OK to perform a Basic Clean.

or

Press ?? to select Deep Clean and press OK to perform a Deep Clean (rarely
needed).


Talk to you soon,

Ron Baird
Eastman Kodak Company

"DK" wrote in message
...


I really like the idea of getting all new nozzles when I get a new
cartridge. Kodak does NOT give you new nozzles with ink.

So how will Kodak handle the nozzles getting clogged?




On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 11:06:24 GMT, Arthur Entlich
wrote:

Some of you may recall that years ago, Kodak brand inkjet printers were
on the market. They were actually rebranded HP models with some
firmware changes.

Well, Kodak is introducing three new "all in one" printer models today,
and I suspect they are not being made by one of the major inkjet
manufacturers, because Kodak is taking the currently used business
model, and turning the clock back to the old days of cheap ink and only
slightly more costly printers. Whether this will lead the charge toward
a decline in other OEM ink cartridges is hard to tell. I suppose it all
depends upon how well received the hardware becomes.

The new "all in one models" sell for $150, $200 and $300 US (list). They
use a permanent thermal ink head with 3840 nozzles. They use two ink
cartridges, a five color (CcMmY) and a black cartridge. The ink head is
thermal (like Canon, HP and Lexmark) and the inks are Kodak's own and
are pigment. They claim the inks provide a wider gamut than wet lab
prints.

The interesting part is the cost of the cartridges. The black cartridge
is $10 and the five-color one is $15US (list). Kodak claims that the
cost is about half that of other OEMs for the same amount of ink or
yield. They also claim the cost of producing a 4x6 borderless print is
now under 10 cents US inclusive of glossy paper. With these printers,
Kodak is introducing new papers using microporous technology for
"instant dry" capability.

The permanence and other qualities of the prints are a bit vague in the
news releases, but words like "lifetime" and "normal home display
conditions" are being used.

Personally, I applaud a new player on the scene, and one that is pushing
to reverse the trend of more and more costly inks supplies. No word on
if the cartridges are "chipped", how long the 'permanent' head will
last, nor if the permanent head is replaceable and at what cost if it is.

Art

"Ron Baird" wrote in message
. com
Greetings DK,

There is a cleaning process similar to other printers, but it does
not use a lot of ink in the doing. Kodak also has set aside specific
parts of the head to cover for any clogs that might occur
temporarily. So, you are not going to miss out on any printing.
Prints will continue to be excellent. As the clog is cleared, things
return to normal.
Actually, Kodak has included two cleaning options Normal clean and a
Deep Clean. The Deep Clean is not generally needed and so is rarely
suggested. If you run into a problem, it can be used in extremes.

And if that fails, what then? I would have thought a smart company would
learn from Epson's mistake.

And please don't top post.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:24:57 +1100, "DRS" wrote:

"Ron Baird" wrote in message
.com
Greetings DK,

There is a cleaning process similar to other printers, but it does
not use a lot of ink in the doing. Kodak also has set aside specific
parts of the head to cover for any clogs that might occur
temporarily. So, you are not going to miss out on any printing.
Prints will continue to be excellent. As the clog is cleared, things
return to normal.
Actually, Kodak has included two cleaning options Normal clean and a
Deep Clean. The Deep Clean is not generally needed and so is rarely
suggested. If you run into a problem, it can be used in extremes.

And if that fails, what then? I would have thought a smart company would
learn from Epson's mistake.

Indeed. Having owned and compared Epson and HP inkjets, it's all cheese and
chalk. The Epson shat all over the HP for print quality, but the HP would
always fire up after a month of inactivity. And getting fresh nozzles with
every (new) cart - even though I paid for that privilege - was better than the
inevitable declogging and the cost of new Epson print heads. Eventually sold
both Epsons, run a pair of HP's now

I have prayed long and hard for a printer manufacturer to do two things:

(a) abandon the "give them the razor, sell them the blades" business model; and
(b) provide nozzles in the consumable cartridge.

When I heard that Kodak were heading for (a) I held my breath, but alas no (b).

Just for my curiocity, what method does this printer use for cleaning the
printhead? It uses any type of pump, or like HP printers without a pump?


--
Yianni

(Remove the number nine from my email address to send me email)



"Ron Baird" wrote in message
. com...

Greetings DK,

There is a cleaning process similar to other printers, but it does not use
a lot of ink in the doing. Kodak also has set aside specific parts of the
head to cover for any clogs that might occur temporarily. So, you are not
going to miss out on any printing. Prints will continue to be excellent.
As the clog is cleared, things return to normal.

Actually, Kodak has included two cleaning options Normal clean and a Deep
Clean. The Deep Clean is not generally needed and so is rarely suggested.
If you run into a problem, it can be used in extremes.
To clean printhead from computer

1 Start the AiO Home Center (software that comes with the printer)
2 Click to open the Help panel.
3 Under General Links, click Maintenance.
4 Click Printhead Cleaning.

To clean printhead from control panel pf the software,

1 Press Menu to display the Main Menu.
2 Press ?? until Clean Printhead is selected.
3 Press OK to go to the Clean Printhead menu.
4 Press OK to perform a Basic Clean.

or

Press ?? to select Deep Clean and press OK to perform a Deep Clean (rarely
needed).


Talk to you soon,

Ron Baird
Eastman Kodak Company

"DK" wrote in message
...


I really like the idea of getting all new nozzles when I get a new
cartridge. Kodak does NOT give you new nozzles with ink.

So how will Kodak handle the nozzles getting clogged?




On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 11:06:24 GMT, Arthur Entlich
wrote:

Some of you may recall that years ago, Kodak brand inkjet printers were
on the market. They were actually rebranded HP models with some
firmware changes.

Well, Kodak is introducing three new "all in one" printer models today,
and I suspect they are not being made by one of the major inkjet
manufacturers, because Kodak is taking the currently used business
model, and turning the clock back to the old days of cheap ink and only
slightly more costly printers. Whether this will lead the charge toward
a decline in other OEM ink cartridges is hard to tell. I suppose it all
depends upon how well received the hardware becomes.

The new "all in one models" sell for $150, $200 and $300 US (list). They
use a permanent thermal ink head with 3840 nozzles. They use two ink
cartridges, a five color (CcMmY) and a black cartridge. The ink head is
thermal (like Canon, HP and Lexmark) and the inks are Kodak's own and
are pigment. They claim the inks provide a wider gamut than wet lab
prints.

The interesting part is the cost of the cartridges. The black cartridge
is $10 and the five-color one is $15US (list). Kodak claims that the
cost is about half that of other OEMs for the same amount of ink or
yield. They also claim the cost of producing a 4x6 borderless print is
now under 10 cents US inclusive of glossy paper. With these printers,
Kodak is introducing new papers using microporous technology for
"instant dry" capability.

The permanence and other qualities of the prints are a bit vague in the
news releases, but words like "lifetime" and "normal home display
conditions" are being used.

Personally, I applaud a new player on the scene, and one that is pushing
to reverse the trend of more and more costly inks supplies. No word on
if the cartridges are "chipped", how long the 'permanent' head will
last, nor if the permanent head is replaceable and at what cost if it is.

Art

Your comments are fair, but only to a point.

Epson makes dozen of printer models, and they differ considerably in ink
types and in clogging frequency. Further, as good as HP printers have
become, Epson still has them beat in several areas. For specific usage,
each brand and approach will prove to have better or worse characteristics.

You fairly state that the Epson print quality was considerably superior,
and that the cost for having a new head with each ink refill was costly.

You obviously were more than willing to live with both those factors.
Not everyone is, however, nor do they have to to get a printer that has
the good characteristics that Epson can offer. You just have to pay
more for the printer, as you also alluded to.

The Epson R800, for instance has a very low risk of clogging with the
OEM inks. It can be fitted with a bulk ink unit, and bulk inks can be
purchased to keep costs lower. Depending on the brand, some also have
low head clogging tendencies.

The Epson head is permanent for a reason. The piezo technology allows
for very accurate and controllable dot placement, variable dot
technology, the ability to handle a fairly wide variety of viscosities
and ink formulations (including dye and pigment), and the inks can often
be designed to handle quite a number of paper types.

Overall, the Ultrachrome inks (pigment) offer a very low risk of
clogging, The dye inks a moderately low risk, including the newer long
lived Claria inks. The one poor (in my opinion, very poor) ink
formulation is the Durabrite inks. These fast drying pigment inks do
indeed clog rapidly in dryer climates, or if the printer sits unused for
a week or more. In general those printers which use that ink
formulation is the "C and CX series printers and all in ones, and they
typically sell very inexpensively.

As to how well Kodak has accomplished there design, we'll have to wait
and see. They use a pigment ink with a semi-permanent thermal head.
This is somewhat similar head design to the Canon printers, although
Canon has only released pigment color inks for their higher end
professional wide carriage printers so far.

I hope Kodak has done this well, and will signal changes throughout the
industry. Keeping in mind Kodak wants to win the "hearts and minds" of
the consumer with their product and that they are taking a big hit of
the consumables, they better have the engineering correct on the head
design or they will rapidly take a bath when the warranty returns start
coming in, and being that they are selling all in one units, they will
be attracting a demographic that just wants things to work without hassling.

I do wish them luck, and hope they do not fall into a "Kodak Moment"
which was Kodak's tendency to get into a new market only to abandon it a
year or so later. I can think of a good half dozen major areas Kodak
has entered with gusto only to suddenly pull the plug. It is a bit of a
wonder they have clients willing to risk investing in new equipment from
them with this background.

Ones I recall offhand....

Kodak Home Photo CD players (In a focus group, I warned them not to try
this on their own, and instead to license it to other CD player
manufacturers, but they didn't listen)
Kodak 8mm video equipment
Kodak Broadcast and regular video tape (The broadcast quality was great
tape)
Kodak Gold Ultima CD-R blanks (great CD blanks, BTW)
Kodak Ektaflex PCT process (easy to use, faded almost as easily)
Kodak Instant Film and Cameras (they got sued on that one and had to
refund everyone's money after Polaroid successfully won an injunction)
Kodak Disk/126/110/APS film cartridges and cameras (trying to recreate
the phenomenon of 135mm film or improve upon it never did quite work,
but then again, the money was in selling cheap cameras and forcing labs
to buy new add-ons to process and print these usually inferior formats)

One can always hope Kodak has done this one (the inkjet game) correctly.

Art

rebel wrote:

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:24:57 +1100, "DRS" wrote:


"Ron Baird" wrote in message
r.com

Greetings DK,

There is a cleaning process similar to other printers, but it does
not use a lot of ink in the doing. Kodak also has set aside specific
parts of the head to cover for any clogs that might occur
temporarily. So, you are not going to miss out on any printing.
Prints will continue to be excellent. As the clog is cleared, things
return to normal.
Actually, Kodak has included two cleaning options Normal clean and a
Deep Clean. The Deep Clean is not generally needed and so is rarely
suggested. If you run into a problem, it can be used in extremes.

And if that fails, what then? I would have thought a smart company would
learn from Epson's mistake.


Indeed. Having owned and compared Epson and HP inkjets, it's all cheese and
chalk. The Epson shat all over the HP for print quality, but the HP would
always fire up after a month of inactivity. And getting fresh nozzles with
every (new) cart - even though I paid for that privilege - was better than the
inevitable declogging and the cost of new Epson print heads. Eventually sold
both Epsons, run a pair of HP's now

I have prayed long and hard for a printer manufacturer to do two things:

(a) abandon the "give them the razor, sell them the blades" business model; and
(b) provide nozzles in the consumable cartridge.

When I heard that Kodak were heading for (a) I held my breath, but alas no (b).

You are making a lot of assumptions here, such as.

1) You have the right to "request" that people not top post, and very
patronizing in your "request".

2) These printers aren't even released yet. Until they are, or some
review models start circulating, we have no idea how the design and inks
will work with one another. Maybe Kodak "did" learn from some of
Epson's "errors" (once again, there are literally millions of Epson
printers out there which work without clogging, and million that use an
ink formulation that is a consistent problem, so why assume the worst here?

3) Kodak's heads are a thermal design (like Canon, Lexmark and HP
and others), while Epson uses piezo technology, which is completely
different.

4) We have yet to hear if the heads are replaceable or permanent, and if
replaceable what they will cost.

If you don't want to be an early adopter of this product, that is
certainly your prerogative, but you are jumping to an awful lot of
conclusions without any basis... yet.

Art

DRS wrote:

"Ron Baird" wrote in message
. com

Greetings DK,

There is a cleaning process similar to other printers, but it does
not use a lot of ink in the doing. Kodak also has set aside specific
parts of the head to cover for any clogs that might occur
temporarily. So, you are not going to miss out on any printing.
Prints will continue to be excellent. As the clog is cleared, things
return to normal.
Actually, Kodak has included two cleaning options Normal clean and a
Deep Clean. The Deep Clean is not generally needed and so is rarely
suggested. If you run into a problem, it can be used in extremes.


And if that fails, what then? I would have thought a smart company would
learn from Epson's mistake.

And please don't top post.

Although I'm guessing, since its a thermal head design, it shouldn't
require a pump. Thermal heads tend to unclog by activating the
resistors which are used to heat the nozzles. In effect the ink within
the very small nozzle area is boiled, and that is usually adequate to
make enough pressure to pop any dried ink out.

Epson requires a vacuum pump because the ink head and ink are not
heated, but use a more passive vibration system to pump the ink out of
the head. Since it is a pretty non-vigorous process, if the nozzle is
clogged, the vibrating liquid is not sufficient to push a dried plug of
ink out of the nozzle area, so instead vacuum is applied to the outer
surface of the head to try to pull the clog out.

Art

Yianni wrote:

Just for my curiocity, what method does this printer use for cleaning
the printhead? It uses any type of pump, or like HP printers without a
pump?