Epson printers are electronic theieves

Dr. Dweeb wrote:
Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
incompetant and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little
asses.
I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the
other 5 read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the
ink.
I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah"
message. This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not
yet having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot
print and I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even
of alternative branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. It is
both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for what
has happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give
up ? Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally
apprpriate ?
Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb

Guys,

The printer (an RX600 by the way, a typo before) is brand new.
This is the first attempt to change a cartridge !

Also, Epson sells different models in different markets and the ink is not
interchangeable. Generally speaking, for example, you cannot buy RX600 ink
in say, Thailand - since the model does not exist there. A geek in a BKK
ink shop said he did not think a Thai resetter would work, since the Thai
cartridges were a different part number with a different chip. I took his
word, though in retrospect I should have paid the 10 bucks just in case.

Also, AFAICS that % full idea is a piece of crap. It is in no related to
the amount of ink in the cartridge, just on some arbitrary curve based on
the number of pages through the loop.

All in all, a pretty depressing situation.

It sure printed and scanned nice for a while though :-(

Dr. Dweeb

This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a warranty
claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. it is my
opinion that if they do not state plainly that other ink can not be used
then in the UK there could be room for litigation for misrepresentation as a
buyer is buying only a printer and is not and should not be tied to OEM ink.
Any views on this.

"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in message
. dk...
Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
incompetant
and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.

I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5
read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.

I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message.
This
will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not yet
having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print
and
I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even of alternative
branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. It
is
both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for what has
happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give up ?
Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?

Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb

Anna Daptor wrote:
"JF Mezei" wrote in message
...
Tony wrote:
Have you tried using the driver software to change all the
cartridges again but
using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.


EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you
take a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and
put it back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full.

No it won't. Epson carts have a chip that remembers the ink level so
you *can* take them out of the printer and it'll know how much ink is
in the cart when you replace it.


I am not certain who is correct here, though I have seen others than JF
mention this somewhere else IIRC.

The printer "decided" that the cartridge was empty rather arbitrarily - the
final page printed flawlessly. The % full for the colours seems to dive
pretty rapidly, even when the only colour printed was some trivial 10 pixel
logo.

I think it is a giant scheme of deceit and lies and I am really mad about
it.

Sadly, like almost everything else in the computer world, no one gives a FF.
and there is no where to lodge a complaint. Well maybe there is - I will
try during the week to harass support here and see what happens. I predict
abject failure.

Dr. Dweeb

You need to
electronically reset the cartridge so it thinks it was never inserted
into a printer before.

That's true if you've refilled the cart.

In article , Beach Runner writes:
Well consider HP is Digital/compaq, I'd go for an HP printer.

Nope. HP is not DEC and even worse than EPSON in inks. Try CANON...

--
Peter "EPLAN" LANGSTOEGER
Network and OpenVMS system specialist
E-mail
A-1030 VIENNA AUSTRIA I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist

"Shooter" wrote in message
...
This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a warranty
claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used.

Since when? There's *nothing* stopping anybody using 3rd party inks in Epson
or any other printer. Epson are just employing scare tactics in an attempt
at ensuring their cash cow. Using 3rd party inks has no baring on any
warranty claims.

Shooter wrote:
This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a
warranty claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be
used. it is my opinion that if they do not state plainly that other
ink can not be used then in the UK there could be room for litigation
for misrepresentation as a buyer is buying only a printer and is not
and should not be tied to OEM ink. Any views on this.


It is clearly a dubious practice - and likely illegal. Was there not a
principle case on this matter in the US courts against HP on this very issue
? (memory fuzzy on this)

Dweeb
"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in message
. dk...
Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
incompetant and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little
asses.

I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the
other 5 read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from
Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the
ink.

I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah"
message. This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not
yet having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot
print and I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even
of alternative branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me.
It is both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for
what has happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a
non-Epson cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I
give up ? Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally
apprpriate ?

Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb

"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in message
. dk...
Anna Daptor wrote:
"JF Mezei" wrote in message
...
Tony wrote:
Have you tried using the driver software to change all the
cartridges again but
using the *same* cartrdiges? I have seen this work.


EPSON cartridges can only be inserted into te printer once. If you
take a brand new cartridge, put it in printer, then take it out and
put it back it, it will indicate 0 even though it is full.

No it won't. Epson carts have a chip that remembers the ink level so
you *can* take them out of the printer and it'll know how much ink is
in the cart when you replace it.


I am not certain who is correct here, though I have seen others than JF
mention this somewhere else IIRC.

The printer "decided" that the cartridge was empty rather arbitrarily -
the
final page printed flawlessly. The % full for the colours seems to dive
pretty rapidly, even when the only colour printed was some trivial 10
pixel
logo.

If the ink cartridges that you are not changing have not updated the
information for the driver (unless you are using one of the standalones with
the LCD readout) it may be that the level was lower than was showing and
when you charged the black ink cartridge the other levels were reset...

One thing about Epson printers and their 'Smart Cartridges' is they are only
as smart as the last update to the driver...and they do not have actual
sensors but the ink levels are calculated based on number of sheets printed,
cleaning cycles performed, on/off processing, and cartridge charging...

This is not the best design but it works fairly accurately most of the
time...and I'd imagine that a better design would probably increase MSRP out
of the competitors leagues initially...

"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in message
. dk...
Dr. Dweeb wrote:
Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
incompetant and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little
asses.
I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the
other 5 read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the
ink.
I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah"
message. This will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not
yet having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot
print and I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even
of alternative branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. It
is
both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for what
has happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give
up ? Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally
apprpriate ?
Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb

Guys,

The printer (an RX600 by the way, a typo before) is brand new.
This is the first attempt to change a cartridge !

Also, Epson sells different models in different markets and the ink is not
interchangeable. Generally speaking, for example, you cannot buy RX600
ink
in say, Thailand - since the model does not exist there. A geek in a BKK
ink shop said he did not think a Thai resetter would work, since the Thai
cartridges were a different part number with a different chip. I took his
word, though in retrospect I should have paid the 10 bucks just in case.

Also, AFAICS that % full idea is a piece of crap. It is in no related to
the amount of ink in the cartridge, just on some arbitrary curve based on
the number of pages through the loop.

All in all, a pretty depressing situation.

It sure printed and scanned nice for a while though :-(

Have you tried changing the other ink cartridges with Epson and then
swapping the third party carts back in? Sometimes this works...sometimes it
doesn't...

"Shooter" wrote in message
...
This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a warranty
claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. it is my
opinion that if they do not state plainly that other ink can not be used
then in the UK there could be room for litigation for misrepresentation as
a
buyer is buying only a printer and is not and should not be tied to OEM
ink.
Any views on this.

Using third party inks in NA does not void your warranty and should not void
a warranty anywhere...what we were doing is if the printer came in and we
put in Epson inks and the printer worked properly the customer could be
charged for the ink cartridges (since they take the credit card info)...I
don't remember ever hearing of this being done but it was always an
option...

My question would be "if Epson honors their warranty by replacing the
printer and the end user gets a working model (with free Epson inks) but
then messes it up again with non-Epson cartridges, should Epson keep
replacing the unit free or should they charge the customer?".

Why should Epson honor the warranty when they know that it is the inks that
messed the printer up?

I've had customers admit that they used third party inks and then freaked
out when I told them that if the inks are responsible the warranty for that
issue would not be valid...but their warranty is not voided by simply using
these inks.

Epson recently changed their policy in NA where they will now do support on
non-Epson inks...prior to the lawsuit they could simply refuse to
troubleshoot until the customer put in Epson inks (but who is to know?).

That was always good for a trip to my supervisor for the customer...

"Dr. Dweeb" wrote in message
. dk...
Gentlemen,

I have reached the conclusion that the Epson corporation is both
incompetant
and corrupt. Someone should sue their scrawny little asses.

I have an RX500 - a high end combi-device.

Today, the reading on my black ink cartridge hit zero, while the other 5
read between 23-28%
I replaced the black cartridge with a 3rd party product from Gold-Ink.

After installation the printer informed me that it was loading the ink.

I decided to print the test page.

Failure - and worse.

1: "The ink cartridge is different from Epson blah blah blah" message.
This
will now appear EVERY time I try to print !!!!!!!!!!
2: The device reset all 5 other cartridges to 0%
3: The device has the black cartridge now pegged at 83%, despite not yet
having printed 1 character

Because the other 5 cartridges now MUST be replaced I still cannot print
and
I am REALLY ****ed off. Check how much 6 cartridges (even of
alternative
branbd) ink costs - this is an expensive exercise.

The audacity of these assholes to pull this sort of stunt amazes me. It
is
both amoral and illegal. There is no technical reason for what has
happenned to me - it is just punishment for installing a non-Epson
cartridge - something I believe is my commercial right.

I mean, how much money do I have to spend on cartridges before I give up
?
Is an ERROR message at EVERY print job even marginally apprpriate ?

Where do I get my money back ??

Dr. Dweeb

"Shooter" wrote in message
...
This discussion now brings up again that Epson will not honour a warranty
claim if third party ink is used or can be proved to be used. it is my
opinion that if they do not state plainly that other ink can not be used
then in the UK there could be room for litigation for misrepresentation as
a
buyer is buying only a printer and is not and should not be tied to OEM
ink.
Any views on this.


Hi.

I agree with you.

If you buy something it is yours, the previous owner or manufacturer has no
say over how you decide to use it, or resell it or anything. If you choose
to put 3rd party ink into your printer, or print on 3rd party paper, then
Epson would have to prove that those caused the problem before they could
dishonour the warranty.

The UK law of Contract is perfectly clear that a Contract can not be altered
by one party after the Contract is made. So if Epson have set up the
Printer so that it will stop working if you insert 3rd party cartridges,
that fact would need to be explained to you, by the seller, BEFORE you
bought the Printer, or you could sue them for Breach of Contract.

Any Conditions Notices etc, which are within the box, have no validity,
because the Contract commences when the Seller agrees to sell you the
printer, it is already in effect by the time you open the box.

Likewise with the Cartridges. If a 3rd party cartridge is sold to you as
being suitable for use in XXX Printer, and then causes that Printer to fail,
then the 3rd Party Seller is in Breach of Contract.

The only problem, and it is a very big one, is the cost of taking legal
action, especially against a large Multi-National, but if a large enough
group of individuals got together - Merry Hell could be raised.

I know of a case where Durst were being bloody minded about the rollers on
their home photo paper processing machine becoming sticky, and jamming,
because of a reaction with the chemicals. Lots of people were having major
problems, and getting nowhere. A friend was getting the run-around by
Durst, being told all sorts of rubbish about it being his fault, or just one
of those things, etc, etc.

He eventually got an admission and the refund, but only after he wrote using
his official notepaper. He just happened to be a High Court Judge.

Roy G