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Failing HDDs



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 25th 19, 11:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Charlie Hoffpauir
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Posts: 347
Default Failing HDDs

I have a couple of Seagate Hard Drives that Hard Disk Semtinel says
are failing. One is model ST2000DM001 and the other ST3000DM008. I've
removed both from my system and recovered the data, but I'm wondering
if there's anything that can be done to "save" the drives, perhaps as
backups, or is that a useless activity and I should just toss them.
Hard Disk Sentinel says one has an expected life of 5 days, and the
other 16 days. The problems reported are bad sectors, for example, for
the 3 TB drive:
56 bad sectors
3288 bad sectors during self test
4267 errors during data transfer
power on time 587 days, 3 hours
Est remaining lifetime 5 days
total start/stop count 11,804

so, can anything be done for them, or or they scrap.
  #2  
Old April 26th 19, 05:31 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Cows are Nice
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Posts: 3
Default Failing HDDs

On 04/25/2019 03:51 PM, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
I have a couple of Seagate Hard Drives that Hard Disk Semtinel says
are failing. One is model ST2000DM001 and the other ST3000DM008. I've
removed both from my system and recovered the data, but I'm wondering
if there's anything that can be done to "save" the drives, perhaps as
backups, or is that a useless activity and I should just toss them.
Hard Disk Sentinel says one has an expected life of 5 days, and the
other 16 days. The problems reported are bad sectors, for example, for
the 3 TB drive:
56 bad sectors
3288 bad sectors during self test
4267 errors during data transfer
power on time 587 days, 3 hours
Est remaining lifetime 5 days
total start/stop count 11,804

so, can anything be done for them, or or they scrap.


I would keep running at least one of them until failure, to find out if
the Sentinel's ominous predictions are accurate.

I've read that Seagate 3 TB drives were notoriously bad.
My very old 160 GB Seagate, model ST3160023A, has done well.
Reallocated sectors 0
Powered On 3 years, 8 months and 15 days
Power Cycle Count 7598

You know that Windows ruins hardware, don't you? Sad.
  #3  
Old April 26th 19, 06:30 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default Failing HDDs

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:51:15 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
wrote:

, or or they scrap.


I wouldn't have said anything, 1) you mention Seagate, and 2) I
happened to be looking at a W.D. sale (non-blacks), based on their 4G
class in Blue and Red models. The Red is almost twice the price of
the advertised Blue, although I'd presume in all else equal or near so
to a better regard the Red has established for longevity.

Of course, over a little jaunt into a few references and sites,
something in need was indicated for a Judus Can to kick, little
surprise there's no fanfare for Seagate failure rates at the 4G mark.
I neither found exactly what I did want, just the above two classes,
comparatively;- I'd rather have had a precise industry-matrice with
numbers of contributors over a wider representation of larger drives,
specifically to including class 3, perhaps 6, and 8T/byte drives.

Nor am I interested in a mention of instances for other encounters.
Drives are expensive, comparatively, as well a limited perspective for
looking for a bottom rung at marketing the ones which are not. That
would be, perhaps most commonly of all, either or WD and SeaSnake.
  #4  
Old April 26th 19, 06:59 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default Failing HDDs

Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
I have a couple of Seagate Hard Drives that Hard Disk Semtinel says
are failing. One is model ST2000DM001 and the other ST3000DM008. I've
removed both from my system and recovered the data, but I'm wondering
if there's anything that can be done to "save" the drives, perhaps as
backups, or is that a useless activity and I should just toss them.
Hard Disk Sentinel says one has an expected life of 5 days, and the
other 16 days. The problems reported are bad sectors, for example, for
the 3 TB drive:
56 bad sectors
3288 bad sectors during self test
4267 errors during data transfer
power on time 587 days, 3 hours
Est remaining lifetime 5 days
total start/stop count 11,804

so, can anything be done for them, or or they scrap.


I scrap drives when they will no longer be detected.

Or when they will no longer spin.

If the drives were on the edge of croaking, they might
make good test beasts for "data recovery software".
Like R-Studio or something.

My guess would be the "expected life of 5 days" is just
bad maths. You would be surprised how long a drive with
a growing error problem will last.

I "retire" drives like that. And use them for test
installs, mainly so I can see just how long they'll
last. I have around 5 drives which are no longer fit
for regular usage, but after 3 to 5 years of doing
test installs on them, they're *still* running.

*******

Back in the 40GB Maxtor drive era, a sick drive would
last around 24 hours. Then, lights out... With those,
you were in serious trouble, unless you religiously
made regular backups. There's no way you could get
the data off before they were gone. I lost two of those,
and my data with them. For some reason, drives are a
little bit better today. If you're half awake. There
are still people who insist on not paying attention
to "hints" their hardware gives them. And your Hard
Disk Sentinel is just the right tool for the job.

(Anything that reads SMART is a start in the right direction.)

Paul
  #5  
Old April 26th 19, 01:49 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Larc[_3_]
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Posts: 383
Default Failing HDDs

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 01:30:51 -0400, Flasherly wrote:

| On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:51:15 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
| wrote:
|
| , or or they scrap.
|
| I wouldn't have said anything, 1) you mention Seagate, and 2) I
| happened to be looking at a W.D. sale (non-blacks), based on their 4G
| class in Blue and Red models. The Red is almost twice the price of
| the advertised Blue, although I'd presume in all else equal or near so
| to a better regard the Red has established for longevity.

The last time I bought a new HDD, I held out until WD Gold was on sale.

Larc
  #6  
Old April 26th 19, 02:29 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Charlie Hoffpauir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default Failing HDDs

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:51:15 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
wrote:

I have a couple of Seagate Hard Drives that Hard Disk Semtinel says
are failing. One is model ST2000DM001 and the other ST3000DM008. I've
removed both from my system and recovered the data, but I'm wondering
if there's anything that can be done to "save" the drives, perhaps as
backups, or is that a useless activity and I should just toss them.
Hard Disk Sentinel says one has an expected life of 5 days, and the
other 16 days. The problems reported are bad sectors, for example, for
the 3 TB drive:
56 bad sectors
3288 bad sectors during self test
4267 errors during data transfer
power on time 587 days, 3 hours
Est remaining lifetime 5 days
total start/stop count 11,804

so, can anything be done for them, or or they scrap.


Thanks for all the comments.
I was actually thinking.... I could put one or both in service as one
of my rotating backups. In that manner it would only be used once per
month, for only a few minutes. "5 days" could last months that way.
Yesterday I tried to run Seatools DOS, downloaded from the Seagate
site, but it looks like the GUI version doesn't work (on my setup at
least... it doesn't locate any drives), so I did a "long" format from
within Windows (5+ hours on the 3 TB). Results unchanged.... still
predicting 5 days. I did notice that this drive does run several
degrees hotter than any of my other drives that are in service. The
only one I've seen run hotter is a WD Black 3 TB that runs so hot I'm
afraid to use it in my system. (FYI, SSDs in my system run typically
27-28 C, HDDs about 33-35 C, and this 3TB Seagate pushes 40 C.
  #7  
Old April 26th 19, 04:14 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Paul[_28_]
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Posts: 1,467
Default Failing HDDs

Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 17:51:15 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
wrote:

I have a couple of Seagate Hard Drives that Hard Disk Semtinel says
are failing. One is model ST2000DM001 and the other ST3000DM008. I've
removed both from my system and recovered the data, but I'm wondering
if there's anything that can be done to "save" the drives, perhaps as
backups, or is that a useless activity and I should just toss them.
Hard Disk Sentinel says one has an expected life of 5 days, and the
other 16 days. The problems reported are bad sectors, for example, for
the 3 TB drive:
56 bad sectors
3288 bad sectors during self test
4267 errors during data transfer
power on time 587 days, 3 hours
Est remaining lifetime 5 days
total start/stop count 11,804

so, can anything be done for them, or or they scrap.


Thanks for all the comments.
I was actually thinking.... I could put one or both in service as one
of my rotating backups. In that manner it would only be used once per
month, for only a few minutes. "5 days" could last months that way.
Yesterday I tried to run Seatools DOS, downloaded from the Seagate
site, but it looks like the GUI version doesn't work (on my setup at
least... it doesn't locate any drives), so I did a "long" format from
within Windows (5+ hours on the 3 TB). Results unchanged.... still
predicting 5 days. I did notice that this drive does run several
degrees hotter than any of my other drives that are in service. The
only one I've seen run hotter is a WD Black 3 TB that runs so hot I'm
afraid to use it in my system. (FYI, SSDs in my system run typically
27-28 C, HDDs about 33-35 C, and this 3TB Seagate pushes 40 C.


Human body temperature is 37C. Another 3C won't hurt.

*******

You're probably thinking of the old days, where one surface was
used solely for servo, and all other surfaces were soft formatted.
When you did a "low level format", N-1 surfaces would receive
new header, new data, write splice, lead-in and so on. The track
was rewritten.

Today, the pattern on each platter is "fixed". There is no "low
level format" possible. You can write the "data" portion of sectors
and that is all.

Formatting a drive will make *no difference* to the
reallocation status of the drive.

---1--- ---2--- ---3--- ---x--- ---5--- -servo- -servo- ---6---
--29---

In that example, sector 29 is being used as a substitute for sector 4.
The servo information is in-line, and disrupts sectors in a sense.

The "format" of the disk is fixed. When you write the disk from end
to end, the servo is never re-written, the sector headers (if there
are any) remain fixed in place for the life of the drive.

Since sector 4 was reallocated, it stays in the reallocation count,
Sector 29 receives the data that sector 4 used to receive. So 29
got a new data section in place of 4 getting it. Sector 29 is probably
on the same track as sector 4, and this is purely diagrammatic detail.

While SCSI has the ability to reset grown defects, ATA drives don't
do that. Only a factory utility of some sort, or a command issued
through the serial interface on the drive, might be able to do that.
It's not intended that a user be able to reset re-allocations on
IDE/SATA drives.

Once the drive runs out of substitutes in a "bad patch", that's when
you might get CRC errors showing up.

What little I've been able to gather, it seems my Seagate drives
only increment "Current Pending", if there is a lack of spares
available. Even on a sick drive with "Reallocations" raw data field
non-zero, the "Current Pending" does not follow what the name
suggests. The implication was that "Current Pending" were sectors
being processed, and a decision made as to whether they were
bad or not. If you write the drive from end to end, the Current
Pending could be decided one way or another, so the count
was supposed to drop to zero. But on Seagate, I don't think
it works that way, for some reason.

Another thing you should know, is "long format" does a
"quick format" (write out a new $MFT) followed by a *read verify*
of the surface. 99.9% of the time spent, is doing reads.

If you want the surface to be *written* you need this
as an example. In an admin command prompt, try

diskpart
list disk
select disk 3 # make *sure* you're on the correct disk!
clean all # 3 hour end-to-end write of every sector
exit

An alternative is to use chrysocome dd in an admin command prompt.
( http://www.chrysocome.net/dd )

dd if=/dev/random of=\\?\Device\Harddisk2\Partition0 bs=1M

The order that

dd --list

lists disks, is the same order as Disk Management, except numbering
starts from zero. So "Disk 3" in Disk Management, might be
"Harddisk2" when using dd.exe . For both of these procedures,
be extra careful you're erasing the correct drive.

The Windows "long format" command on the other hand, is mostly
about reading the surface and updating NTFS $BADCLUS so that
bad clusters are taken out of the cluster pool.

HTH,
Paul

  #8  
Old April 26th 19, 04:35 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Flasherly[_2_]
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Posts: 2,407
Default Failing HDDs

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:49:53 -0400, Larc
wrote:

The last time I bought a new HDD, I held out until WD Gold was on sale.


Damn, I should hold out for a sepia, Prussian blue, or cadmium orange.

(From an article in 2016...and "flavors" of WD
Blue, Green, Red, Purple, Black, and Gold.

Thus and so to make and thereby explain differences.

It all does sound so suspiciously like advertising to me.

Blue's for Joe Blow. I got that: $70, give or marginally take for a
4T unit sale I looked at a few days ago;- thing is, that's also the
market price it's most recently dropped to across averaged timetables.

Green got sued for short-shriving firmware into premature idle-time
shut downs;- the legal argument is premature failure. I got that
literally, as I bought one and did a firmware modification.

Greens are not made anymore, but [re]folded into marketing along with
the same Blue I saw. Unless a mention of gone greens I saw is wrong.

Black's performance. Gaming, for one.

Purple is 24/7 surveillance. (Too redundant for comfort to me.)

Red, I compared to the Blue sale I looked at: both "same series" in
Red and Blue. Red is a step faster, longer warrantee, (Blacks dnd
Golds are longest: five years), with evident popularity, besides, in
enterprise placement. And, there may, or not, be additionally a Red
Pro I haven't encountered;- there was in 2016 at least.

And last, for the grand finale -- Gold class at 2M hours MTBF.
Definitely new territory and one I haven't looked at.

WD's flagship, evidently, with these warranty specs -

2,000,000/24
83333.3333333/365
228.310502283

How spectacular. You can bequeath that to five generations at an
historical average ceded for 50 years (so used in Egyptology for
dating its dynasties).

At 2016 it would appear the largest WD as well possible at 10TB. I
would offhand guess prices at the time of your acquisition may have
ranged upwards of $400, if not excessively more;- with a sale
possibly to entail at least $200US.
  #9  
Old April 26th 19, 06:06 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Filip454[_2_]
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Posts: 12
Default Failing HDDs

W dniu 2019-04-26 o*06:31, Cows are Nice pisze:
Windows ruins hardware


Could you elaborate?

--
Filip454
]
  #10  
Old April 26th 19, 07:24 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.os.windows-10
Cows are Nice
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Posts: 3
Default Failing HDDs

On 04/26/2019 10:06 AM, Filip454 wrote:
W dniu 2019-04-26 o 06:31, Cows are Nice pisze:
Windows ruins hardware


Could you elaborate?


Yes. Every so often, an anti-Linux troll gets swatted for visiting Linux
groups to spread alarm that Linux will destroy their hardware. Since we
enjoy that, following up with many witty replies, I thought it a swell
idea to bring the fun to win-droids with a crosspost.

Fact - Most dead HDDs, nearly all of them, are found to be infected with
NTFS.
 




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