Spontaneous Reboot Problem

Agreed. Run Memtest86 for a number of hours. How many? How many passes, i.e.
complete test cycles, does it run in an hour. If Memtest86 shows no errors
after a number of hours, memory is ruled out as a cause of the problem, and the
motherboard and CPU are unlikely. But I would not rule out all hardware. As I
stated earlier, could be a bad power supply. May I also add that the graphic
card could be flaking out, especially if it has an nVidia chipset a couple of
years old. nVidia graphics chips do fail more than others, whether on a
motherboard or on a freestanding graphics card... Ben Myers

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:46:44 -0700, "Dan G" wrote:

Memtest86 should run for many hours, at least 8. Most errors seem to occur
in tests 5 and 6, but run them all. If your machine does that and doesn't
reboot. then I think you've ruled out hardware, maybe.


"Don Cohen" wrote in message
...
Memtest86 is the one I meant, you just unzip the download to a floppy
and
boot to it, it auto-runs. In case you haven't already, be sure to
re-seat
the RAM.

That's what I thought. I actually just donwloaded the 'ISO' image and
burned it making a bootable CD. Interestingly, my system brought up the
same BSOD just seconds after this completed, after it had been running
without problem for perhaps an hour or so.

Memtest86 is now running, and after 18 minutes shows 0 errors.

I know this needs to be done, and it would be convenient if that's all it
is, but somehow I suspect it won't be.

I guess the contents of the 'minidump' file didn't give you any additional
insight either?

Don

Dan and Ben,

Thanks once again.

Memtest86 ran for 3 hours, 8 passes, with 0 errors, and I manually stopped
it. I'll let it run all night tonight and see what shows in the morning.
But I'm inclined to think RAM is OK.

I'm still thinking/hoping it's a powersupply issue. I have the ATI Radeon
8500, not nVidia, so perhaps that's ok.

I suspect I will end up just replacing the Power Supply. It came with a
250W Newton Power unit. I remember when I purchased it, that some felt that
this was a little under-powered. And given the stability of XP, the
computer has been on a high percentage of these 2 years. So perhaps it's
giving out.

I'm currently researching power supplies, and will probably go to 400W, and
am looking at Zalman, Seasonic, Fortron (reviewed in Tom's Hardware). Any
suggestions here also appreciated.

The system has now been operating for several hours without the 'spontaneous
reboot' (about 3 hours doing memtest86, and over another hour in normal
Windows. I would be inclined to think that if it were a software issue that
it would be less intermittent, although that's not 100%.

If you have any other thoughts or suggestions, please send them my way.

Thanks again, and have a good (what's left of the) week-end.

Don
www.dlcphotography.net



ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Agreed. Run Memtest86 for a number of hours. How many? How many passes,
i.e.
complete test cycles, does it run in an hour. If Memtest86 shows no
errors
after a number of hours, memory is ruled out as a cause of the problem,
and the
motherboard and CPU are unlikely. But I would not rule out all hardware.
As I
stated earlier, could be a bad power supply. May I also add that the
graphic
card could be flaking out, especially if it has an nVidia chipset a couple
of
years old. nVidia graphics chips do fail more than others, whether on a
motherboard or on a freestanding graphics card... Ben Myers

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:46:44 -0700, "Dan G" wrote:

Memtest86 should run for many hours, at least 8. Most errors seem to
occur
in tests 5 and 6, but run them all. If your machine does that and doesn't
reboot. then I think you've ruled out hardware, maybe.


"Don Cohen" wrote in message
...
Memtest86 is the one I meant, you just unzip the download to a floppy
and
boot to it, it auto-runs. In case you haven't already, be sure to
re-seat
the RAM.

That's what I thought. I actually just donwloaded the 'ISO' image and
burned it making a bootable CD. Interestingly, my system brought up
the
same BSOD just seconds after this completed, after it had been running
without problem for perhaps an hour or so.

Memtest86 is now running, and after 18 minutes shows 0 errors.

I know this needs to be done, and it would be convenient if that's all
it
is, but somehow I suspect it won't be.

I guess the contents of the 'minidump' file didn't give you any
additional
insight either?

Don

Antec TruePower is my favorite, 430, 480 or 550.

Since the vid card is running during DOS-Memtest86, and there are no reboots
during that time, I think it's probly OK.
BTW, if it reboots with the memtest86 disc in the drive, it will just start
over again, so be aware of the time and # of passes run per hour when you
come back to it so you'll know if it has re-started..


"Don Cohen" wrote in message
...
Dan and Ben,

Thanks once again.

Memtest86 ran for 3 hours, 8 passes, with 0 errors, and I manually stopped
it. I'll let it run all night tonight and see what shows in the morning.
But I'm inclined to think RAM is OK.

I'm still thinking/hoping it's a powersupply issue. I have the ATI Radeon
8500, not nVidia, so perhaps that's ok.

I suspect I will end up just replacing the Power Supply. It came with a
250W Newton Power unit. I remember when I purchased it, that some felt
that
this was a little under-powered. And given the stability of XP, the
computer has been on a high percentage of these 2 years. So perhaps it's
giving out.

I'm currently researching power supplies, and will probably go to 400W,
and
am looking at Zalman, Seasonic, Fortron (reviewed in Tom's Hardware). Any
suggestions here also appreciated.

The system has now been operating for several hours without the
'spontaneous
reboot' (about 3 hours doing memtest86, and over another hour in normal
Windows. I would be inclined to think that if it were a software issue
that
it would be less intermittent, although that's not 100%.

If you have any other thoughts or suggestions, please send them my way.

Thanks again, and have a good (what's left of the) week-end.

Don
www.dlcphotography.net



ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Agreed. Run Memtest86 for a number of hours. How many? How many
passes,
i.e.
complete test cycles, does it run in an hour. If Memtest86 shows no
errors
after a number of hours, memory is ruled out as a cause of the problem,
and the
motherboard and CPU are unlikely. But I would not rule out all
hardware.
As I
stated earlier, could be a bad power supply. May I also add that the
graphic
card could be flaking out, especially if it has an nVidia chipset a
couple
of
years old. nVidia graphics chips do fail more than others, whether on a
motherboard or on a freestanding graphics card... Ben Myers

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 12:46:44 -0700, "Dan G" wrote:

Memtest86 should run for many hours, at least 8. Most errors seem to
occur
in tests 5 and 6, but run them all. If your machine does that and
doesn't
reboot. then I think you've ruled out hardware, maybe.


"Don Cohen" wrote in message
...
Memtest86 is the one I meant, you just unzip the download to a
floppy
and
boot to it, it auto-runs. In case you haven't already, be sure to
re-seat
the RAM.

That's what I thought. I actually just donwloaded the 'ISO' image
and
burned it making a bootable CD. Interestingly, my system brought up
the
same BSOD just seconds after this completed, after it had been
running
without problem for perhaps an hour or so.

Memtest86 is now running, and after 18 minutes shows 0 errors.

I know this needs to be done, and it would be convenient if that's
all
it
is, but somehow I suspect it won't be.

I guess the contents of the 'minidump' file didn't give you any
additional
insight either?

Don

Thanks, Dan.

Antec TruePower is my favorite, 430, 480 or 550.

I'll have a look at those.

Since the vid card is running during DOS-Memtest86, and there are no
reboots
during that time, I think it's probly OK.
BTW, if it reboots with the memtest86 disc in the drive, it will just
start
over again, so be aware of the time and # of passes run per hour when you
come back to it so you'll know if it has re-started.

Good point.

Interestingly, about a minute after I posted last, it happened again (while
in normal Windows, after about an hour of normal operation).

I restarted memtest86 from the bootable-CD I created, choosing "all" as the
option for the most complete testing. It's now 4 hours into this, and has
completed the first pass with no errors found. I'll let it run all night.

One more question:

The computer seems to be able to run fine for several hours while doing
memtest86, while it does the 'reboot' when in Windows generally within an
hour. Is the Power Supply less 'stressed' during memtest86 than in normal
operation, and so would be less likely to unmask any weakness in the Power
Supply?? If this is not the case, this could be interpreted as suggesting
that the Power Supply is not the source of the problem.

What do you think about this?

Thanks again!

Don

Yes, the power supply is stressed less when Memtest86 is running. During normal
full operation, hard drives, CD-ROM drive, network card all draw added current.
.... Ben Myers

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:38:56 -0500, "Don Cohen"
wrote:

Thanks, Dan.

Antec TruePower is my favorite, 430, 480 or 550.

I'll have a look at those.

Since the vid card is running during DOS-Memtest86, and there are no
reboots
during that time, I think it's probly OK.
BTW, if it reboots with the memtest86 disc in the drive, it will just
start
over again, so be aware of the time and # of passes run per hour when you
come back to it so you'll know if it has re-started.

Good point.

Interestingly, about a minute after I posted last, it happened again (while
in normal Windows, after about an hour of normal operation).

I restarted memtest86 from the bootable-CD I created, choosing "all" as the
option for the most complete testing. It's now 4 hours into this, and has
completed the first pass with no errors found. I'll let it run all night.

One more question:

The computer seems to be able to run fine for several hours while doing
memtest86, while it does the 'reboot' when in Windows generally within an
hour. Is the Power Supply less 'stressed' during memtest86 than in normal
operation, and so would be less likely to unmask any weakness in the Power
Supply?? If this is not the case, this could be interpreted as suggesting
that the Power Supply is not the source of the problem.

What do you think about this?

Thanks again!

Don

Not to mention the video card drawing more power.
Is there any other BSOD message other than the non-paged error?
What about Dr Watson logs?
There's only one way to diagnose a PSU issue, and that's to replace it.


ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Yes, the power supply is stressed less when Memtest86 is running. During
normal
full operation, hard drives, CD-ROM drive, network card all draw added
current.
... Ben Myers

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 19:38:56 -0500, "Don Cohen"

wrote:

Thanks, Dan.

Antec TruePower is my favorite, 430, 480 or 550.

I'll have a look at those.

Since the vid card is running during DOS-Memtest86, and there are no
reboots
during that time, I think it's probly OK.
BTW, if it reboots with the memtest86 disc in the drive, it will just
start
over again, so be aware of the time and # of passes run per hour when
you
come back to it so you'll know if it has re-started.

Good point.

Interestingly, about a minute after I posted last, it happened again
(while
in normal Windows, after about an hour of normal operation).

I restarted memtest86 from the bootable-CD I created, choosing "all" as
the
option for the most complete testing. It's now 4 hours into this, and
has
completed the first pass with no errors found. I'll let it run all
night.

One more question:

The computer seems to be able to run fine for several hours while doing
memtest86, while it does the 'reboot' when in Windows generally within an
hour. Is the Power Supply less 'stressed' during memtest86 than in
normal
operation, and so would be less likely to unmask any weakness in the
Power
Supply?? If this is not the case, this could be interpreted as
suggesting
that the Power Supply is not the source of the problem.

What do you think about this?

Thanks again!

Don

Dan and Ben,

Thanks for confirming my tentative conclusions; it seemed logical, but you
never know...

And I have not seen any other BSOD's or any other messages. It's always the
exact same one whose details I posted at the beginning of this thread..

I let memtest86 run for over 6 hours, it went through more than 2 complete
cycles doing *all* the tests (including the 'extended' ones), and still no
errors - I'm taking that and concluding my RAM is ok.

I haven't looked for Dr. Watson logs, but that's not a bad idea.

But the bottom line is that I'm going to go out and buy a new PSU today and
hope that will fix it. I'll post back one way or the other.

Thanks again, guys.

Don
www.dlcphotography.net

"Dan G" wrote in message
...
Not to mention the video card drawing more power.
Is there any other BSOD message other than the non-paged error?
What about Dr Watson logs?
There's only one way to diagnose a PSU issue, and that's to replace it.


ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Yes, the power supply is stressed less when Memtest86 is running.
During
normal
full operation, hard drives, CD-ROM drive, network card all draw added
current.
... Ben Myers

Update:

Just to make sure, I ran blastfix.exe since spontaneous reboot is a common
symptom of the blast worm, but fortunately this was completely negative.

So I went out and bought an Antec TruPower 430 PSU. I installed it last
night and powered up around 7:00 pm. It's now over 12 hours later, and the
system is still on and functioning fine.

I'll need a little more time to be absolutely certain, but at this point it
looks like it was in fact a failing PSU that was the source of these
spontaneous reboots.

Thanks to Dan and Ben and Edward for the assistance.

Best regards,

--
Don
Photo Website at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net

[Remove the "lens cap" for email]

"Don Cohen" wrote in message
...
Dan and Ben,

Thanks for confirming my tentative conclusions; it seemed logical, but you
never know...

And I have not seen any other BSOD's or any other messages. It's always
the
exact same one whose details I posted at the beginning of this thread..

I let memtest86 run for over 6 hours, it went through more than 2 complete
cycles doing *all* the tests (including the 'extended' ones), and still no
errors - I'm taking that and concluding my RAM is ok.

I haven't looked for Dr. Watson logs, but that's not a bad idea.

But the bottom line is that I'm going to go out and buy a new PSU today
and
hope that will fix it. I'll post back one way or the other.

Thanks again, guys.

Don
www.dlcphotography.net

"Dan G" wrote in message
...
Not to mention the video card drawing more power.
Is there any other BSOD message other than the non-paged error?
What about Dr Watson logs?
There's only one way to diagnose a PSU issue, and that's to replace it.


ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers) wrote in message
...
Yes, the power supply is stressed less when Memtest86 is running.
During
normal
full operation, hard drives, CD-ROM drive, network card all draw added
current.
... Ben Myers

Well, after the system was up and running almost 48 hours without incident,
the monitor went black without warning, and the same bsod came up (I have my
system configured to not automatically restart, to help identify this
problem).

I'm beginning to wonder if it's related to the isolated 'blackouts' I have
had with my monitor since it was new. There were quite a few of us who
experienced this problem when this was system was new, around 2 years ago.
What normally happens is that the monitor goes completely black for about
2-3 seconds, and then comes back on without anything else happening. This
would happen perhaps once a month or two, sometimes more, sometimes less
often.

Now, it's as if the same thing happens in that the monitor goes black for a
second, but then instead of coming back on, the system reboots (or goes to
the bsod dependng on configuration). If these are related, I guess it could
be a videocard or motherboard issue.

I'm going to have to break down and bring it in to have some diagnostics run
to try and pinpoint the problem.

Bummer....I really thought the PSU solved it!

Don

P.S. Here is the original post for this whole fiasco:

I have a 2 year old Gateway 700XL (2.2 GHz Pent 4., 1024 Mb RAM, 120 GB HD,
XP Home, ATI Radeon VideoCard with FPD1810 LCD Monitor), which has run
virtually flawlessly. The only glitch has been a rare monitor black-out
lasting a few seconds (without any reboot or other issues), occurring once
every couple of months. I researched this problem, and saw that many others
experienced this with this hardware, with no definitive answer that I could
ever identify.

I keep it well maintained in terms of critical updates, have run AdAware,
NAV 2003, ZoneAlarm, etc.

Out of nowhere it has started spontaneously rebooting. I'll just be doing
the usual - either checking email, browsing the web, and the screen goes
black, and without further intervention, it just completely reboots. I'm
not a gamer, so the system (or video subsystem) is not getting any real
work-out when this occurs.

My daughter reported this happening when she was using it perhaps a month or
two ago. Then it happened once yesterday. Today it happened again, and
kept doing it, running only 5 or 10 minutes before rebooting. Now I have it
turned off, and will let it cool down overnight and see what happens in the
morning.

I took the side cover off and verified that the fan was spinning (it seemed
fairly fast but I don't know how fast it should be). The side of the metal
around the CPU was fairly warm to touch, but it didn't seem excessively hot.
After turning it off completely, I gently vacuumed the fan and surrounding
area, case vents, and left the side off for better ventilation. It still
rebooted.

I downloaded MemTest, and tried running it. It got to around 70%, showed 0
errors, but then rebooted so it couldn't complete.

I'm inclined to think this is a hardware issue, but short of bringing or
sending it in for service, what kind of diagnostics or other methods can I
use to try and define the source of this problem?

Has anyone experienced this with this or similar systems?

I had done some 'googling' yesterday and what I found suggested fan, memory
or other hardware failure, but one person concluded a software problem (I
forget which) was the source.

Any help greatly appreciated. I really depend on this computer for many,
many tasks, on a daily basis!

Thanks!

--
Don
Photo Website at:
www.dlcphotography.net
remove "lens cap" for email reply

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:14:53 -0500, "Don Cohen"
wrote:

Well, after the system was up and running almost 48 hours without incident,
the monitor went black without warning, and the same bsod came up (I have my
system configured to not automatically restart, to help identify this
problem).

I'm beginning to wonder if it's related to the isolated 'blackouts' I have
had with my monitor since it was new. There were quite a few of us who
experienced this problem when this was system was new, around 2 years ago.
What normally happens is that the monitor goes completely black for about
2-3 seconds, and then comes back on without anything else happening. This
would happen perhaps once a month or two, sometimes more, sometimes less
often.

Now, it's as if the same thing happens in that the monitor goes black for a
second, but then instead of coming back on, the system reboots (or goes to
the bsod dependng on configuration). If these are related, I guess it could
be a videocard or motherboard issue.

I'm going to have to break down and bring it in to have some diagnostics run
to try and pinpoint the problem.

Bummer....I really thought the PSU solved it!

Don

P.S. Here is the original post for this whole fiasco:

I have a 2 year old Gateway 700XL (2.2 GHz Pent 4., 1024 Mb RAM, 120 GB HD,
XP Home, ATI Radeon VideoCard with FPD1810 LCD Monitor), which has run
virtually flawlessly. The only glitch has been a rare monitor black-out
lasting a few seconds (without any reboot or other issues), occurring once
every couple of months. I researched this problem, and saw that many others
experienced this with this hardware, with no definitive answer that I could
ever identify.

I keep it well maintained in terms of critical updates, have run AdAware,
NAV 2003, ZoneAlarm, etc.

Out of nowhere it has started spontaneously rebooting. I'll just be doing
the usual - either checking email, browsing the web, and the screen goes
black, and without further intervention, it just completely reboots. I'm
not a gamer, so the system (or video subsystem) is not getting any real
work-out when this occurs.

My daughter reported this happening when she was using it perhaps a month or
two ago. Then it happened once yesterday. Today it happened again, and
kept doing it, running only 5 or 10 minutes before rebooting. Now I have it
turned off, and will let it cool down overnight and see what happens in the
morning.

I took the side cover off and verified that the fan was spinning (it seemed
fairly fast but I don't know how fast it should be). The side of the metal
around the CPU was fairly warm to touch, but it didn't seem excessively hot.
After turning it off completely, I gently vacuumed the fan and surrounding
area, case vents, and left the side off for better ventilation. It still
rebooted.

I downloaded MemTest, and tried running it. It got to around 70%, showed 0
errors, but then rebooted so it couldn't complete.

I'm inclined to think this is a hardware issue, but short of bringing or
sending it in for service, what kind of diagnostics or other methods can I
use to try and define the source of this problem?

Has anyone experienced this with this or similar systems?

I had done some 'googling' yesterday and what I found suggested fan, memory
or other hardware failure, but one person concluded a software problem (I
forget which) was the source.

Any help greatly appreciated. I really depend on this computer for many,
many tasks, on a daily basis!

Thanks!

I would try a format and reload of windows before I paid anyone to run
tests...it could be a driver problem...or you may have picked up a
worm or virus...
Good luck
Glenn M
A GREAT DAY FOR FREEDOM...Pink Floyd