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This whole HalfLife2 thing is ridiculous



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 14th 03, 03:36 AM
TheHasselhoff
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Default This whole HalfLife2 thing is ridiculous

I am beside myself with how the Nvidia line is suddenly being considered
second-rate compared to the ATI line, simply because of one game.
Now, I realize HL2 will be immensely popular. But, Valve has basically come
out and acted as if their new game is 100% representative of how video games
will be made in the future. That's certainly egotistical, and downright
incorrect. The other 100s of game developers are not going to suddenly say,
"ooh, here's how Valve does things, so we need to copy it."
I guess what really frosts me is that Valve (obviously in bed with ATI)
comes out with their own benchmarks - which are not being validated by any
independent source - and all of the other benchmarks out there, showing the
GeforceFX line beating the ATI line in many other games are thrown out the
window.
Valve can say all they want that Nvidia shouldn't make "game-specific"
drivers - but I'll bet that the last few Catalyst revisions have had updates
for HL2 in them. They'd be dumb not to - but Valve acting like the supreme
entity in all of this is ridiculous.
I think I'm going to pass on HL2, just out of principle.



  #2  
Old September 14th 03, 04:08 AM
methylenedioxy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"TheHasselhoff" wrote in message
om...
I am beside myself with how the Nvidia line is suddenly being considered
second-rate compared to the ATI line, simply because of one game.
Now, I realize HL2 will be immensely popular. But, Valve has basically

come
out and acted as if their new game is 100% representative of how video

games
will be made in the future. That's certainly egotistical, and downright
incorrect. The other 100s of game developers are not going to suddenly

say,
"ooh, here's how Valve does things, so we need to copy it."
I guess what really frosts me is that Valve (obviously in bed with ATI)
comes out with their own benchmarks - which are not being validated by any
independent source - and all of the other benchmarks out there, showing

the
GeforceFX line beating the ATI line in many other games are thrown out the
window.
Valve can say all they want that Nvidia shouldn't make "game-specific"
drivers - but I'll bet that the last few Catalyst revisions have had

updates
for HL2 in them. They'd be dumb not to - but Valve acting like the

supreme
entity in all of this is ridiculous.
I think I'm going to pass on HL2, just out of principle.


The trouble is, it isn't just one game. Doom 3 is having problems and has
it's own nv35 shading code because of it, Lara croft's last game was having
problems, 3d mark 03 had problems and now Aquamark 3 too. It isn't one game,
it isn't one thing, its numerous and there is a problem that needs
addressing and nvidia can't keep blaming everyone else.
Whilst I would agree with you had it only been valve (who are promoting the
ati cards anyway) saying this it would look suspicious, but it isn't just
valve. Read nvidias press release, they are trying to blame everyone and not
take responsibility. According to nvidia there are no differences in quality
between ps1.4 and ps2, between dx8 and dx9 and also no difference in quality
between 32 bit and 16 bit shading. They need to own up to this bloody mess.


  #3  
Old September 14th 03, 04:12 AM
methylenedioxy
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Posts: n/a
Default

http://www.tweaktown.com/document.ph...Id=517&dPage=1


  #4  
Old September 14th 03, 04:14 AM
methylenedioxy
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Posts: n/a
Default


"methylenedioxy" wrote in message
...
http://www.tweaktown.com/document.ph...Id=517&dPage=1



And these benchmarks are the ones which nvidia were saying were going to
solve all the problems, it's clearly a hardware fault and they should own
up, the beta 50's aren't working either so their response to the valve
claims about using the beta 50 drivers to solve the problems is nonsense,
they must have only optimised for hl2 and not anything else, which is just
trying to cover up the problem.....


  #5  
Old September 14th 03, 06:09 AM
Minotaur
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

TheHasselhoff wrote:
I am beside myself with how the Nvidia line is suddenly being considered
second-rate compared to the ATI line, simply because of one game.
Now, I realize HL2 will be immensely popular. But, Valve has basically come
out and acted as if their new game is 100% representative of how video games
will be made in the future. That's certainly egotistical, and downright
incorrect. The other 100s of game developers are not going to suddenly say,
"ooh, here's how Valve does things, so we need to copy it."
I guess what really frosts me is that Valve (obviously in bed with ATI)
comes out with their own benchmarks - which are not being validated by any
independent source - and all of the other benchmarks out there, showing the
GeforceFX line beating the ATI line in many other games are thrown out the
window.
Valve can say all they want that Nvidia shouldn't make "game-specific"
drivers - but I'll bet that the last few Catalyst revisions have had updates
for HL2 in them. They'd be dumb not to - but Valve acting like the supreme
entity in all of this is ridiculous.
I think I'm going to pass on HL2, just out of principle.





If nVidia kept to DirectX 9 specifications, they wouldn't have any
problems. But no, they had to use there own routines, thus why some
games are being delayed. Poor programmers basically have to write a
wrapper, to get DirectX 9 routines working on nVidias, semi-compatible
DirectX 9 cards.
Have fun waiting for DirectX 10 games, nVidia might just stick to using
official standards by then if we are all lucky.

Personally, I don't care who delivers, but nVidia certainly hasn't.

Anything but 4X FSAA and 8X AF these days is a joke, really who only
cares about FPS? and to top it off, why does nVidia think it knows best
and why has it disabled the option to change video settings in certain
gaming titles? Despicable, dodgy and treats it's customers like retards,
nVidia has turned into a snake oil salesman.

  #6  
Old September 14th 03, 07:06 AM
Mangyrat
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

now days i dont give a rats ass about FPS in game's as long as its playable
with all the eye candy. so what if one card can do 200fps in a bench mark im
happy at 60fps with the best looking settings i can get.
the mistake Nvidai is making is they are trying to out bench mark ATI they
shuld give up and work on image quality. buy the way i have both ati and
nvidia cards. so im not realy for one or the other as long as it works like
i want it to im happy.
hell im thinking of getting a matrox card no one beats them in 2d , if they
would make a good 3d card that i could crank the setting up and play new
games on 3 monitors i would give up both ati and nvidia and not look back.
to damn bad the parhelia will not keep up with todays games. if nvidia wants
to win back the crown then they need to do a card like matrox did suround
gaming. screw haveing the fastest card give me the card that will do
souround gameing and one that i can turn all setting up to max and still
play it at a good frame rate.
oh well till them ill stay with my 9700 and my fx 5200 they both do dual
monitors just fine
i like the 5200 for my older games but i got it for its dual monitor support
not a game card.
when this new bench mark comes out ill run it on both cards not to see how
fast they are but to see how good they look.
--
If life is a bitch then live it like she is drunk and naked.

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"TheHasselhoff" wrote in message
om...
I am beside myself with how the Nvidia line is suddenly being considered
second-rate compared to the ATI line, simply because of one game.
Now, I realize HL2 will be immensely popular. But, Valve has basically

come
out and acted as if their new game is 100% representative of how video

games
will be made in the future. That's certainly egotistical, and downright
incorrect. The other 100s of game developers are not going to suddenly

say,
"ooh, here's how Valve does things, so we need to copy it."
I guess what really frosts me is that Valve (obviously in bed with ATI)
comes out with their own benchmarks - which are not being validated by any
independent source - and all of the other benchmarks out there, showing

the
GeforceFX line beating the ATI line in many other games are thrown out the
window.
Valve can say all they want that Nvidia shouldn't make "game-specific"
drivers - but I'll bet that the last few Catalyst revisions have had

updates
for HL2 in them. They'd be dumb not to - but Valve acting like the

supreme
entity in all of this is ridiculous.
I think I'm going to pass on HL2, just out of principle.





  #7  
Old September 14th 03, 11:21 AM
J.Clarke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:10:40 +1200
william bell wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:36:37 GMT, "TheHasselhoff"
wrote:

I am beside myself with how the Nvidia line is suddenly being
considered second-rate compared to the ATI line, simply because of
one game. Now, I realize HL2 will be immensely popular. But, Valve
has basically come out and acted as if their new game is 100%
representative of how video games will be made in the future. That's
certainly egotistical, and downright incorrect. The other 100s of
game developers are not going to suddenly say,"ooh, here's how Valve
does things, so we need to copy it." I guess what really frosts me is
that Valve (obviously in bed with ATI) comes out with their own
benchmarks - which are not being validated by any independent source
- and all of the other benchmarks out there, showing the GeforceFX
line beating the ATI line in many other games are thrown out the
window. Valve can say all they want that Nvidia shouldn't make
"game-specific" drivers - but I'll bet that the last few Catalyst
revisions have had updates for HL2 in them. They'd be dumb not to -
but Valve acting like the supreme entity in all of this is
ridiculous. I think I'm going to pass on HL2, just out of principle.





Nothing at all to do with the game, its all about DX9 and how its
supported, even ATI Cards have a problem with no Z Buffer or a limited
one..


?!?!?!?! Anyone who claims "ATI Cards have no Z buffer" is simply
ignorant. ATI has had a Z buffer since the Rage chips at least, if not
farther back. And the only sites and posts I can find that contain the
phrase"limited Z buffer" are two years old and talking about nvidia. If
you are aware of a specific issue with the R350 Z buffer please provide
a link.






--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
  #8  
Old September 14th 03, 11:22 AM
Jamie_Manic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"TheHasselhoff" wrote in message
om...
I am beside myself with how the Nvidia line is suddenly being considered
second-rate compared to the ATI line, simply because of one game.
Now, I realize HL2 will be immensely popular. But, Valve has basically

come
out and acted as if their new game is 100% representative of how video

games
will be made in the future. That's certainly egotistical, and downright
incorrect.


Unless you are able to see into the future YOU are incorrect.

The other 100s of game developers are not going to suddenly say,
"ooh, here's how Valve does things, so we need to copy it."
I guess what really frosts me is that Valve (obviously in bed with ATI)
comes out with their own benchmarks - which are not being validated by any
independent source - and all of the other benchmarks out there, showing

the
GeforceFX line beating the ATI line in many other games are thrown out the
window.
Valve can say all they want that Nvidia shouldn't make "game-specific"
drivers - but I'll bet that the last few Catalyst revisions have had

updates
for HL2 in them. They'd be dumb not to - but Valve acting like the

supreme
entity in all of this is ridiculous.
I think I'm going to pass on HL2, just out of principle.


Yeah. Sure you are :P

Bloody fanboys.


  #9  
Old September 14th 03, 11:26 AM
J.Clarke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:19:50 +1200
william bell wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:36:37 GMT, "TheHasselhoff"
wrote:

I am beside myself with how the Nvidia line is suddenly being
considered second-rate compared to the ATI line, simply because of
one game. Now, I realize HL2 will be immensely popular. But, Valve
has basically come out and acted as if their new game is 100%
representative of how video games will be made in the future. That's
certainly egotistical, and downright incorrect. The other 100s of
game developers are not going to suddenly say,"ooh, here's how Valve
does things, so we need to copy it." I guess what really frosts me is
that Valve (obviously in bed with ATI) comes out with their own
benchmarks - which are not being validated by any independent source
- and all of the other benchmarks out there, showing the GeforceFX
line beating the ATI line in many other games are thrown out the
window. Valve can say all they want that Nvidia shouldn't make
"game-specific" drivers - but I'll bet that the last few Catalyst
revisions have had updates for HL2 in them. They'd be dumb not to -
but Valve acting like the supreme entity in all of this is
ridiculous. I think I'm going to pass on HL2, just out of principle.





Read this and find out, Nvidia cards ARE NOT 100% DX9 Compliant..


http://www.warp2search.net/modules.p...icle&sid=14396

http://www.3dchipset.com/#351


The first link refers to the second and the second is some guy
expressing his unsupported opinion.

--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
  #10  
Old September 14th 03, 11:35 AM
J.Clarke
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 23:30:23 +1200
william bell wrote:

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 02:36:37 GMT, "TheHasselhoff"
wrote:

I am beside myself with how the Nvidia line is suddenly being
considered second-rate compared to the ATI line, simply because of
one game. Now, I realize HL2 will be immensely popular. But, Valve
has basically come out and acted as if their new game is 100%
representative of how video games will be made in the future. That's
certainly egotistical, and downright incorrect. The other 100s of
game developers are not going to suddenly say,"ooh, here's how Valve
does things, so we need to copy it." I guess what really frosts me is
that Valve (obviously in bed with ATI) comes out with their own
benchmarks - which are not being validated by any independent source
- and all of the other benchmarks out there, showing the GeforceFX
line beating the ATI line in many other games are thrown out the
window. Valve can say all they want that Nvidia shouldn't make
"game-specific" drivers - but I'll bet that the last few Catalyst
revisions have had updates for HL2 in them. They'd be dumb not to -
but Valve acting like the supreme entity in all of this is
ridiculous. I think I'm going to pass on HL2, just out of principle.





This is the Article about no F Buffer in the 9600.


"

No F-buffer - Unlike ATI's high-end R350 chip, the RV350 doesn't have
an F-buffer. Without an F-buffer, the Radeon 9600 Pro will be unable
to handle shader programs more complex than what's called for by
Microsoft's DirectX 9 spec, but it's still unclear how much of a
limitation that will be in the real world. It will probably be some
time before games exploit all of DirectX 9's shader capabilities, much
less move beyond them. You can read more about what exactly an
F-buffer is and what it does in our Radeon 9800 Pro review. "


http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2...o/index.x?pg=1


I don't see anything in the post to which you were responding concerning
the F buffer, so I find myself wondering why you bring it up. FWIW, the
F-buffer is an ATI-specific performance enhancement, and the only chip
in the world that has one is the R350, so I don't see where it's absence
in the RV350 is a particularly earth-shattering issue.


--
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 




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