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Later Nvidia drivers hogging the PCI bus?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 23rd 03, 07:58 AM
Derek Wildstar
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Posts: n/a
Default Later Nvidia drivers hogging the PCI bus?


"Tech Support" wrote in message
...
I ran PCIlist and it made mention of the fact my video card may be
hogging the PCI bus. I was runnign the beta 44.65 drivers and noticed
in XP that on boot up the start sound would slightly stutter. I have
an Audigy2. Did a bit of digging around on Google and found others
with the same issue, including people using 44.03 drivers and up.
Seems the fix is to isntall 43.45 and down drivers. I did this and
sure enough it fixed the stuttering sound on XP boot up. This does
imply to me that the more recent Nvidia drivers may well be hogging
the bus and causing a problem for my Audigy2 as they are both bus
mastering cards. Anybody else seen similar issues?



Yes, there are potential issues with the Audigy 2 XP drivers and the
Detonators you mention. You are lucky that you found a version that works
well for you.

I'm not sure if you're looking for an explanation as to what causing the
stutters, or why, but I can share with you and any other reader what I have
found, and potential workarounds. I can report this, there are some beta
Audigy 2 drivers that have attempted to address this issue, among others,
and I can report that I have seen some improvement by just swithcing to the
beta drivers. However, better results came from BIOS optimizations and
careful review of all device drivers for their timeliness.

You can find them he

http://www.tomshardware.fr/download.php


More technically, the AGP requires a period of 255 clock cycles (clks) set
in the BIOS. I can not think of a technical reason why you would set it to
less. Also check that the Audigy 2 has at least a 32clk window to hold the
bus. Since the Audigy 2 is a bus-mastered card, there is no conflict, in
theory, between the "hoggy" AGP and it's more meager requirements. Keyword:
theory.

My suspicion, yet to be proven, is that the real problem lies in the DMA
portion of the Audigy 2's bus-mastering. Ultimately solved only by new
drivers. I suspect this only because everything else I've tried, every
possible combination of components and settings, driver revisions and other
people's efforts have yieled such inconsistent results. It's a sometimes on,
sometimes off problem, and it seems like it's something that's specific to
the affected machine, which DMA access can be, machine specific. Did I say
Keyword: theory?

Ensure your chipset drivers are up to date, and your BIOS is configured as
above, make sure you have an advanced APIC running, make sure your DirectX
is functioning perfectly, and lastly, but potentially vexing, make sure your
'audio hardware acceleration' slider is set one tick less than max. That's a
whole issue in and of itself.






  #2  
Old June 23rd 03, 01:46 PM
Alceryes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Derek Wildstar" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

"Tech Support" wrote in message
...
I ran PCIlist and it made mention of the fact my video card may be
hogging the PCI bus. I was runnign the beta 44.65 drivers and noticed
in XP that on boot up the start sound would slightly stutter. I have
an Audigy2. Did a bit of digging around on Google and found others
with the same issue, including people using 44.03 drivers and up.
Seems the fix is to isntall 43.45 and down drivers. I did this and
sure enough it fixed the stuttering sound on XP boot up. This does
imply to me that the more recent Nvidia drivers may well be hogging
the bus and causing a problem for my Audigy2 as they are both bus
mastering cards. Anybody else seen similar issues?



Yes, there are potential issues with the Audigy 2 XP drivers and the
Detonators you mention. You are lucky that you found a version that works
well for you.

I'm not sure if you're looking for an explanation as to what causing the
stutters, or why, but I can share with you and any other reader what I

have
found, and potential workarounds. I can report this, there are some beta
Audigy 2 drivers that have attempted to address this issue, among others,
and I can report that I have seen some improvement by just swithcing to

the
beta drivers. However, better results came from BIOS optimizations and
careful review of all device drivers for their timeliness.

You can find them he

http://www.tomshardware.fr/download.php


More technically, the AGP requires a period of 255 clock cycles (clks) set
in the BIOS. I can not think of a technical reason why you would set it to
less. Also check that the Audigy 2 has at least a 32clk window to hold the
bus. Since the Audigy 2 is a bus-mastered card, there is no conflict, in
theory, between the "hoggy" AGP and it's more meager requirements.

Keyword:
theory.

My suspicion, yet to be proven, is that the real problem lies in the DMA
portion of the Audigy 2's bus-mastering. Ultimately solved only by new
drivers. I suspect this only because everything else I've tried, every
possible combination of components and settings, driver revisions and

other
people's efforts have yieled such inconsistent results. It's a sometimes

on,
sometimes off problem, and it seems like it's something that's specific to
the affected machine, which DMA access can be, machine specific. Did I say
Keyword: theory?

Ensure your chipset drivers are up to date, and your BIOS is configured as
above, make sure you have an advanced APIC running, make sure your DirectX
is functioning perfectly, and lastly, but potentially vexing, make sure

your
'audio hardware acceleration' slider is set one tick less than max. That's

a
whole issue in and of itself.







I'm currently using a 9700Pro but I do remember that with my Ti4600 I had
the same stuttering issue (I too have XP, Audigy Plat., and used the latest
reference drivers). I fixed it by killing Nvidia's unnecessary startup
proggies. You won't find them in msconfig...you'll have to look in the
registry under:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run
and possibly:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Run
I also remember getting rid of unnecessary Audigy startups in the registry
as well...

*CAUTION* - Editing the registry has been known to cause involuntary
keyboard face-plants and Tourette syndrome...
--


"I don't cheat to survive. I cheat to LIVE!!"
- Alceryes

(check out my modded/OC'd system at http://mywebpages.comcast.net/alceryes)




  #3  
Old June 23rd 03, 05:19 PM
E
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Although I don't have the same audio card, my old comp that used a
fortisimo, and my new comp which uses the onboard soundMAX will studder with
any upgrade in graphics drivers in the 40+ series.

I did at one time actually get the audio not studdering in Anarchy Online
with the 41.09 drivers. I don't play that anymore, but with Asheron's Call
any driver 40+ will cause choppy playback, pops, crackles, etc. no matter
what audio card I am using.

Will try the bios tweeks mentioned.


"Tech Support" wrote in message
...
I ran PCIlist and it made mention of the fact my video card may be
hogging the PCI bus. I was runnign the beta 44.65 drivers and noticed
in XP that on boot up the start sound would slightly stutter. I have
an Audigy2. Did a bit of digging around on Google and found others
with the same issue, including people using 44.03 drivers and up.
Seems the fix is to isntall 43.45 and down drivers. I did this and
sure enough it fixed the stuttering sound on XP boot up. This does
imply to me that the more recent Nvidia drivers may well be hogging
the bus and causing a problem for my Audigy2 as they are both bus
mastering cards. Anybody else seen similar issues?



  #4  
Old June 23rd 03, 05:34 PM
Folk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 06:58:34 GMT, "Derek Wildstar"
wrote:


"Tech Support" wrote in message
.. .
I ran PCIlist and it made mention of the fact my video card may be
hogging the PCI bus. I was runnign the beta 44.65 drivers and noticed
in XP that on boot up the start sound would slightly stutter. I have
an Audigy2. Did a bit of digging around on Google and found others
with the same issue, including people using 44.03 drivers and up.
Seems the fix is to isntall 43.45 and down drivers. I did this and
sure enough it fixed the stuttering sound on XP boot up. This does
imply to me that the more recent Nvidia drivers may well be hogging
the bus and causing a problem for my Audigy2 as they are both bus
mastering cards. Anybody else seen similar issues?



Yes, there are potential issues with the Audigy 2 XP drivers and the
Detonators you mention. You are lucky that you found a version that works
well for you.

I'm not sure if you're looking for an explanation as to what causing the
stutters, or why, but I can share with you and any other reader what I have
found, and potential workarounds. I can report this, there are some beta
Audigy 2 drivers that have attempted to address this issue, among others,
and I can report that I have seen some improvement by just swithcing to the
beta drivers. However, better results came from BIOS optimizations and
careful review of all device drivers for their timeliness.

You can find them he

http://www.tomshardware.fr/download.php


More technically, the AGP requires a period of 255 clock cycles (clks) set
in the BIOS. I can not think of a technical reason why you would set it to
less. Also check that the Audigy 2 has at least a 32clk window to hold the
bus. Since the Audigy 2 is a bus-mastered card, there is no conflict, in
theory, between the "hoggy" AGP and it's more meager requirements. Keyword:
theory.

My suspicion, yet to be proven, is that the real problem lies in the DMA
portion of the Audigy 2's bus-mastering. Ultimately solved only by new
drivers. I suspect this only because everything else I've tried, every
possible combination of components and settings, driver revisions and other
people's efforts have yieled such inconsistent results. It's a sometimes on,
sometimes off problem, and it seems like it's something that's specific to
the affected machine, which DMA access can be, machine specific. Did I say
Keyword: theory?

Ensure your chipset drivers are up to date, and your BIOS is configured as
above, make sure you have an advanced APIC running, make sure your DirectX
is functioning perfectly, and lastly, but potentially vexing, make sure your
'audio hardware acceleration' slider is set one tick less than max. That's a
whole issue in and of itself.


Sounds reasonable to me, given Creative's track record on PCI/DMA
issues with the VIA chipsets.


  #5  
Old June 23rd 03, 07:22 PM
Derek Wildstar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Folk" wrote in message
...

Sounds reasonable to me, given Creative's track record on PCI/DMA
issues with the VIA chipsets.


Yeah, while I don't like to hold past failures against a company or a driver
suite, Creative's technical track record is alarmingly shabby in this
regard.

The worst flaw is as mentioned, the horrendous failure to release the PCI
bus..I think the term for that arbitration is 'bus parking'. It almost broke
the Audigy 1 for a huge class of users

The average end user only hears it as stuttering, or choppy frame rates in
certain rendered games. I thought for sure the Audigy 2 would have corrected
for the sins of the father, and while most people seem to have success, far
too many do not. Which is a shame, it's a superior product in other regards.

VIA isn't blameless, but they have certainly been much more co-operative
than Creative in fixing these issues, their frequently updated 4-in-1's are
evidence of that.



  #6  
Old June 23rd 03, 10:06 PM
Shepİ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 18:22:31 GMT, Whilst playing Smegball with the
scutters "Derek Wildstar" wrote :


"Folk" wrote in message
.. .

Sounds reasonable to me, given Creative's track record on PCI/DMA
issues with the VIA chipsets.


Yeah, while I don't like to hold past failures against a company or a driver
suite, Creative's technical track record is alarmingly shabby in this
regard.

The worst flaw is as mentioned, the horrendous failure to release the PCI
bus..I think the term for that arbitration is 'bus parking'. It almost broke
the Audigy 1 for a huge class of users

The average end user only hears it as stuttering, or choppy frame rates in
certain rendered games. I thought for sure the Audigy 2 would have corrected
for the sins of the father, and while most people seem to have success, far
too many do not. Which is a shame, it's a superior product in other regards.

VIA isn't blameless, but they have certainly been much more co-operative
than Creative in fixing these issues, their frequently updated 4-in-1's are
evidence of that.


I recently tried a CL 5.1 digital and the software placed two entries
on bootup which appear in msconfig.A Jet audio link and a DVD patch.As
I don't like things loading on boot up if they are not needed I
disabled these two(and can fully remove them).They were the cause of
delays in my bootup.As I think the Audigy cards use a similar driver
pack try disabling these(I would anyway until I know what use they
are? )




--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
Free songs download,
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/17/sheppard.html
  #7  
Old June 24th 03, 07:58 PM
Shepİ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 01:26:07 GMT, Whilst playing Smegball with the
scutters "Derek Wildstar" wrote :


"Shepİ" wrote in message
.. .

I recently tried a CL 5.1 digital and the software placed two entries
on bootup which appear in msconfig.A Jet audio link and a DVD patch.As
I don't like things loading on boot up if they are not needed I
disabled these two(and can fully remove them).They were the cause of
delays in my bootup.As I think the Audigy cards use a similar driver
pack try disabling these(I would anyway until I know what use they
are? )


Yes, the Creative install package drops a lot of extra debris for startup,
and this issue goes over and above their functions.

I know what each one does, and in most instances, most users have absolutely
no use for them, do they cause problems? Generally no, but certain ones,
such as cthelper.exe (a windvd remote 'ping' TSR) can freak out and peg cpu
usage at 100%.

It's just futher evidence of Creative's humongous PC-ego.


It's not all Creative.It seems any programs related to media want to
hog the system e.g Real Agro/Apple Quicklime/Windows Media Plauger
etc hence,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/startup.html
http://www.3feetunder.com/krick/startup/list.html
Not to mention,"Spyware".





--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
Free songs download,
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/17/sheppard.html
  #8  
Old June 25th 03, 03:10 AM
Strontium
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Posts: n/a
Default

This is an interesting thread. I observed the same startup sound
'stuttering' both with an AMD based system and a wIntel based system. Same
video card (Asus V8200 pure), same drivers (anything later than 41.09's),
same DX (9.0a), same soundcard (cheezy EQ/CL PCI128). My AMD-based mobo was
using the VIA northbridge. My wIntel board is using the wIntel northbridge.
I can't see this as being a chipset issue, as some others have mentioned in
this thread. As for startup progs, it's quite possible that the NVidia
startup progs may have contributed. I never investigated as I was just
mainly annoyed by that stutter and went back to the 41.09's. I've always
used the default drivers, that come with XP, for the PCI128 card. There are
no startup progs involved with that driver.

--
I'm sorry. Apparently, I'm feeling a little too psychotic this morning.

-The main character in Postal 2

"Tech Support" wrote in message
...
I ran PCIlist and it made mention of the fact my video card may be
hogging the PCI bus. I was runnign the beta 44.65 drivers and noticed
in XP that on boot up the start sound would slightly stutter. I have
an Audigy2. Did a bit of digging around on Google and found others
with the same issue, including people using 44.03 drivers and up.
Seems the fix is to isntall 43.45 and down drivers. I did this and
sure enough it fixed the stuttering sound on XP boot up. This does
imply to me that the more recent Nvidia drivers may well be hogging
the bus and causing a problem for my Audigy2 as they are both bus
mastering cards. Anybody else seen similar issues?



  #9  
Old June 26th 03, 02:30 AM
Shepİ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:28:37 GMT, Whilst playing Smegball with the
scutters "Derek Wildstar" wrote :


"Strontium" wrote in message
...
This is an interesting thread. I observed the same startup sound
'stuttering' both with an AMD based system and a wIntel based system.

Same
video card (Asus V8200 pure), same drivers (anything later than 41.09's),
same DX (9.0a), same soundcard (cheezy EQ/CL PCI128). My AMD-based mobo

was
using the VIA northbridge. My wIntel board is using the wIntel

northbridge.
I can't see this as being a chipset issue, as some others have mentioned

in
this thread. As for startup progs, it's quite possible that the NVidia
startup progs may have contributed. I never investigated as I was just
mainly annoyed by that stutter and went back to the 41.09's. I've always
used the default drivers, that come with XP, for the PCI128 card. There

are
no startup progs involved with that driver.



You are right in that the problem is not manifest to VIA, no chipsets are
immune. However, the symptom, in VIA chipsets, displays itself rather
obviously, stuttering.

The real test is going to be how well the creative drivers behave over time
with the nforce unified drivers in nforce based boards. Since nvidia has
complete control over how their bus behaves, it should be able to tame the
unruly creative drivers. At least, that's what I hope will happen.

Turning on the PC and having a bug play your startup sound at max volume at
3am, doesn't contribute to a mellow Audigy experience.


I'm glad to say that after ditching a Via chip set board a couple of
years ago and returning to a cheap and cheerful SIS chip set board
I've never had a sound problem with a Creative PCI 128 or a 5.1 card
that I couldn't fix :O)
Also I have from time to time run them as dual card setup(not easy)
and the PCI 128 cheapy is still clearer IMHO and CL released some
updated drivers and software that gave it hardware Bass and Treble and
recording abilities but they were hard to find on the Creative site :/




--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
Free songs download,
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/17/sheppard.html
 




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