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AGP Voltage problem



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 28th 04, 07:03 AM
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default AGP Voltage problem

I have a ATI AIW 9800 PRO on a ASUS K8V Deluxe, and here is the problem.
The motherboard says that it will support videocards 1.5V only with P/N
XXXXX-XXXX-30 or later mine is XXXXX-XXXXX-12. On the video card box, it
says that 4x agp runns at 1.5 V, 8X agp is 0.8V. Does that mean I can't run
my video card at 8X? If that is so, I'm confused, the mobo can take a 4x and
8x, but doesn't support 8x voltage which is 0.8V? or did I miss something
here?
I have run a 3DMark03 and 3DMark2001 benchmark, and both of them says AGP
RATIO 0X/8X (Current/Supported) am I running my video card on 0X?


  #2  
Old February 28th 04, 07:27 AM
ICee
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Posts: n/a
Default

John wrote:
I have a ATI AIW 9800 PRO on a ASUS K8V Deluxe, and here is the
problem. The motherboard says that it will support videocards 1.5V
only with P/N XXXXX-XXXX-30 or later mine is XXXXX-XXXXX-12. On the
video card box, it says that 4x agp runns at 1.5 V, 8X agp is 0.8V.
Does that mean I can't run my video card at 8X? If that is so, I'm
confused, the mobo can take a 4x and 8x, but doesn't support 8x
voltage which is 0.8V? or did I miss something here?
I have run a 3DMark03 and 3DMark2001 benchmark, and both of them says
AGP RATIO 0X/8X (Current/Supported) am I running my video card on 0X?


The AGP voltage is the *signaling* (I/O) voltage. The 9800
(9700,9600,9500) is an AGP 3.0 card and uses the 1.5v key and signals at
..8v. That card will certainly work with that MB. If you're having
problems with transfer speed (4x/8x), set anything to do with the AGP
slot in the BIOS to default setting, and make sure you have the latest
drivers from ATI installed. This should help explain AGP 3.0, voltages,
etc.:
http://www.ertyu.org/~steven_nikkel/...atibility.html


  #3  
Old February 28th 04, 02:10 PM
wasdiscovered
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"John" wrote in message
news:NaW%[email protected]_s02...
I have a ATI AIW 9800 PRO on a ASUS K8V Deluxe, and here is the problem.
The motherboard says that it will support videocards 1.5V only with P/N
XXXXX-XXXX-30 or later mine is XXXXX-XXXXX-12. On the video card box, it
says that 4x agp runns at 1.5 V, 8X agp is 0.8V. Does that mean I can't

run
my video card at 8X? If that is so, I'm confused, the mobo can take a 4x

and
8x, but doesn't support 8x voltage which is 0.8V? or did I miss something
here?




Unless I have missed somethimg in what you've just said it seems that they
are
saying you cannot run 4x.



I have run a 3DMark03 and 3DMark2001 benchmark, and both of them says AGP
RATIO 0X/8X (Current/Supported) am I running my video card on 0X?



Seems that 3dMark is saying you can't run 4x.
I also have an AIW 9800 Pro but different mother board
I do have the option in bios for 4x and 8x.but when I set it to 4x in bios
it totaly crashed my system. It seems I can't run at 4x.

3DMark gives me this.
AGP
Revision 3.0
Rate 4x, 8x (8x enabled)
Available Rate 0x0000000c
Selected Rate 0x00000008

Try going to your ATI control panel ( right click on desktop then hit
properties, hit the settings tab then the advanced button, hit the smartgart
tab) It will show you what agp speed you are running. The slider will show
(off, 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x). I'm given the option to set it to (off, 4x, 8x). I
won't be trying 4x again but maybe I'll try the off setting sometime. Maybe
that would be 0x. Can't say for sure. Let us know what you get










  #4  
Old February 29th 04, 07:09 AM
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

3DMark gives me this.
AGP
Revision 3.0
Rate 4x, 8x (8x enabled)
Available Rate 0x0000000c
Selected Rate 0x00000008

Try going to your ATI control panel ( right click on desktop then hit
properties, hit the settings tab then the advanced button, hit the

smartgart
tab) It will show you what agp speed you are running. The slider will show
(off, 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x). I'm given the option to set it to (off, 4x, 8x). I
won't be trying 4x again but maybe I'll try the off setting sometime.

Maybe
that would be 0x. Can't say for sure. Let us know what you get


I've been to SmartGART tab, the slider shows me 0x, 4x and 8x, whatever i
set it to (requires a restart) after I restart, it goes back at 0X
In the bios AGP is set to 8x, FAST WRITE enabled.

3DMark03 gives me this

Revision 3.5
Rate 8x
Available Rate 0x00000008
Selected Rate 0x00000000
Aperture Size 0 B
Sideband Addressing supported (disabled)
Fast Write supported (disabled)


So, I dunno, at the moment, I'm pretty disappointed with Asus K8V, thinking
of switching to MSI K8T Neo FIS2R. I've seen the manual, doesn't say
anything about AGP Voltage requirement. Supports 1X 2X 4X 8X AGP.
Like I said previously, asus says it supports 1.5V video cards only. 8X AGP
runns at 0.8v, I don't see how it can support 8X AGP.


  #5  
Old February 29th 04, 11:51 AM
David Maynard
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

John wrote:
3DMark gives me this.
AGP
Revision 3.0
Rate 4x, 8x (8x enabled)
Available Rate 0x0000000c
Selected Rate 0x00000008

Try going to your ATI control panel ( right click on desktop then hit
properties, hit the settings tab then the advanced button, hit the

=20
smartgart
=20
tab) It will show you what agp speed you are running. The slider will s=

how
(off, 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x). I'm given the option to set it to (off, 4x, 8x).=

I
won't be trying 4x again but maybe I'll try the off setting sometime.

=20
Maybe
=20
that would be 0x. Can't say for sure. Let us know what you get

=20
=20
I've been to SmartGART tab, the slider shows me 0x, 4x and 8x, whatever=

i
set it to (requires a restart) after I restart, it goes back at 0X
In the bios AGP is set to 8x, FAST WRITE enabled.
=20
3DMark03 gives me this
=20
Revision 3.5
Rate 8x
Available Rate 0x00000008
Selected Rate 0x00000000
Aperture Size 0 B
Sideband Addressing supported (disabled)
Fast Write supported (disabled)
=20
=20
So, I dunno, at the moment, I'm pretty disappointed with Asus K8V, thin=

king
of switching to MSI K8T Neo FIS2R. I've seen the manual, doesn't say
anything about AGP Voltage requirement. Supports 1X 2X 4X 8X AGP.
Like I said previously, asus says it supports 1.5V video cards only. 8X=

AGP
runns at 0.8v, I don't see how it can support 8X AGP.


You are confusing supply voltage with the signaling voltage.

Here are the supply voltages for an AGP 8x slot, taken from the (final) A=
GP=20
3.0 spec sheet (Revision: 1.0 Original Date: September 2002).

Table 47: Add-in Card Power Supply Limits

Symbol Parameter Condition Min Max =09
Vddq1.5 I/O Supply Voltage IMAX =3D 2.0 A 1.425 1.575
VCC3.3 3.3 V Power Supply IMAX =3D 6.0 A 3.15 3.45
3.3VAUX 3.3 V Auxiliary Supply IMAX =3D 0.375A 3.15 3.45
VCC5 5 V Power Supply IMAX =3D 2.0 A 4.75 5.25
VCC12 12 V Power Supply IMAX =3D 1.0 A 11.4 12.6

Note that Vddq1.5 is 1.5 volts (as it is for AGP 4x) and that is what the=
y=20
mean when they say "1.5V video cards only."

Now, to the .8 volts:

"3.4.1.1 Signaling Levels
AGP3.0 specifies a 0.8 V voltage swing, end terminated, and referenced to=
=20
VSS, as opposed to AGP2.0, which specified a rail-to-rail 1.5 V series=20
terminated voltage swing.
This change permits a higher data rate and a common signaling voltage,...=


The target VSWING level is 0.8 volts for a nominal VDDQ of 1.5 volts. The=
=20
actual VSWING target is proportionally dependent on the actual VDDQ. This=
=20
level is obtained by the proper sizing of the driver pull-up device again=
st=20
a standard load device of 50 W. The method of setting the driver pull-up =
to=20
the proper resistance value is implementation specific and is not covered=
=20
in this specification."

In other words, the .8 volts is derived on the card from the 1.5V input=20
supply. (Actually, it 'comes out to be' .8 volts because of the nature of=
=20
the termination scheme with a 1.5 v supply).


About whether plugging the wrong one in 'burns up':

"1) AGP3.0 cards can physically plug into an AGP 1.5V or universal=20
connector but will not function. In these configurations, the mechanical =

keying on the AGP motherboard connector does not prevent the AGP3.0=20
graphics card from physically plugging into the motherboard. Since the=20
AGP2.0 motherboard will not look at GC_DET# to identify an AGP3.0 card, i=
t=20
is the responsibility of the AGP3.0 Card to use the newly defined MB_DET#=
=20
pin to detect the non-AGP3.0 motherboard and prevent improper functioning=
=20
or damage. The Card must be capable of tolerating 1.5V signals from the
AGP motherboard. AGP3.0 cards will also need to strap TYPEDET# to
indicate 1.5V, otherwise an AGP Universal motherboard may drive 3.3V to
the card. Since the AGP3.0 card does not support the signaling mode of
the motherboard component, it must not attempt to respond to any cycle
(e.g. PCI configuration cycle)."

Summary: Plugging an AGP 3.0 card into a AGP 2.0 motherboard is=20
electrically safe because AGP 3.0 is spec'd to say it's 1.5v and be 1.5=20
volt tolerant on the signal lines. (For whether it functions, see the=20
compatibility table below.)


2) AGP cards can plug into an AGP3.0-only motherboard but will not be
powered and will not function. In these configurations, the mechanical
keying on the AGP3.0 motherboard connector does not prevent the
AGP2.0 graphics card from plugging into the motherboard. However, the
AGP3.0 motherboard will be able to detect the presence of a non-AGP3.0
Card using a newly added signal pin GC_DET# and use this information to
prevent the configuration from functioning improperly. The motherboard
must detect that GC_DET# is not asserted and remove power from VDDQ
pins.

Summary: AGP 3.0 moved some pin assignments so it's electrically safe to =

plug an AGP 2.0 display card into an AGP 3.0 motherboard. (For whether it=
=20
functions, see the compatibility table below.)

For an AGP summary:

Table 1: AGP Specification Releases

AGP1.0 AGP2.0 AGP3.0
Signaling 3.3V signaling 1.5V Signaling New 0.8V

Signaling
Protocol Pipelined transactions AGP1.0 + Fast Writes AGP2.0 + Some=

+ Source synchronous enhancements=
=96
clocking some deletio=
ns

Speeds 2X, 1X 4X, 2X, 1X 8X, 4X

Connector 3.3V keyed 1.5V keyed, 1.5V keyed,
Universal Universal


2.4.2 AGP3.0/AGP2.0 Compatibility

AGP3.0 and AGP2.0 use the same connector and signal interface with a few =

additions. This means that in addition to the configurations allowed in t=
he=20
AGP specification, several new ones are created. The following tables=20
define the various motherboard and card types...

Table 15: Motherboard Options

Motherboard Types Connector Type Description
AGP 3.3 V 3.3 V keyed Supports only AGP 3.3 V
Motherboard signaling.
Available speeds 1x, 2x.

AGP 1.5 V 1.5 V keyed Supports only AGP 1.5 V
Motherboard signaling.
Available speeds 1x, 2x, 4x.

Universal AGP Universal (UAGP) Supports both AGP 1.5 V
Motherboard and 3.3 V signaling.
(UAGP) Available speeds 1x, 2x, 4x.

AGP3.0 Motherboard 1.5 V keyed Supports only AGP3.0 signaling.
Additional electrical ID to
prevent AGP 1.5 V operation.
Available speeds 8x, 4x.

Universal 1.5V 1.5 V keyed Supports AGP 1.5 V and AGP3.0
AGP3.0 Motherboard signaling. Available speeds
(Universal 1.5V 1x, 2x, 4x, in AGP2.0 mode
AGP3.0) and 8x, 4x in AGP3.0 mode.



Universal AGP3.0 Universal (UAGP) Supports AGP 3.3V, 1.5V and AGP3=
=2E0
Motherboard signaling. Available speeds
(Universal AGP3.0) 1x, 2x, 4x in AGP2.0 mode and
8x, 4x in AGP3.0 mode. This
includes 3.3V support for
1x and 2x speeds.

Your motherboard, being 8x capable and saying "1.5V video cards only," is=
=20
telling you it's a "Universal 1.5V AGP 3.0 Motherboard," as shown in the =

above AGP3.0/AGP2.0 Compatibility table.



 




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