dead motherboard quandry (2xPSU, 2xMB, 2Xvideo cards = zero POST)

Hello all. I've spent the last few hours reading posts here and on the
web, and will be picking up a multimeter tomorrow. However, in the
meantime, perhaps you can give some suggestions.

I started out with a working MB w/ 400W psu. Then I decided to add a
raid system to it, so purchased many drives + 500W psu of some
well-liked brand ( *goes over to look* Coolmax silent switching)
Overkill, likely, as the total draw of the four additional drives is
40W, but I wanted a comfortable margin. lot of good that did me...

Long story short, I put all the drives in, wired them up to the new
psu, and... nothing happened. Not even a POST. No beep. Video fails
to turn on. I tried again, and manged to get a post maybe 1 time in 7.
Unplugged the new drives (so back to the config that worked w/ the
400W psu), and not POST at all. Tried with the old psu: still no joy.
Tried without any peripherals at all, except video: no joy.

Video, eh? I swapped in a known good video card, and lo! we're POSTING
again. once. then never again.

Today I bought a new MB, and tried that instead, with both the old and
new psu, and the old and new video cards. still no joy.

So to summarize:

1 psu that used to work, 1 that is overspecced and brand new
1 video card that used to work (but I notice the cooling fan is HARD
to turn by hand now), 1 video card that was known good previously.
(both ATI Radeons w/ DVI output)
1 mb that used to work, 1 brand new
with ram installed and without (only have a single stick)

Same processor (1.4ghz celeron, intel std heatsink)

NO combinations thereof will even give me a power-on beep.

What I see: CPU, PSU, and case fans all spin up. Video card fan does
not... for either vidcard, for either mboard. A sign... of what? that
both video cards are busted? that ATI fans only spin when needed?

So a few questions: does the keyboard need to be plugged in in order
to POST?
What about the CPU? Are there any clues (appart from the multimeter
I'm buying tomorrow) I can use to figure out which component(s) is
busted?

Any and all thoughts appreciated,

Johan

On 10 Aug 2004 22:28:13 -0700, (Johan)
wrote:

Hello all. I've spent the last few hours reading posts here and on the
web, and will be picking up a multimeter tomorrow. However, in the
meantime, perhaps you can give some suggestions.

I started out with a working MB w/ 400W psu. Then I decided to add a
raid system to it, so purchased many drives + 500W psu of some
well-liked brand ( *goes over to look* Coolmax silent switching)
Overkill, likely, as the total draw of the four additional drives is
40W, but I wanted a comfortable margin. lot of good that did me...

Coolmax sounds like a deceptively rated generic. If so, it
might've been lower true capacity than the other, 400W PSU.



Long story short, I put all the drives in, wired them up to the new
psu, and... nothing happened. Not even a POST. No beep. Video fails
to turn on. I tried again, and manged to get a post maybe 1 time in 7.

At that point it would've been good to take multimeter readings.
It is often helpful to list your major system specs at the
opening of the post in a concise list, so we're not guessing or
hunting aound later to find that info.

Unplugged the new drives (so back to the config that worked w/ the
400W psu), and not POST at all. Tried with the old psu: still no joy.
Tried without any peripherals at all, except video: no joy.

Again we are left wondering exactly what you have that won't
POST. You know but we don't... we could assume a "typical" PC,
but a typical PC would be running right now.

It could be that the Coolmax PSU has already damaged your
motherboard... if it didn't POST every time from the very first
on/reset cycle there was a sign that before trying again the
drives should be unplugged. After it still didn't work,
double-check all cables and other parts just in case something
was disturbed while installing new parts, and check those things
that are obvious but still easily overlooked while making lots of
changes, like plugging in the P4 4-pin 12V plug if the
motherboard uses one. Failing that you could clear the CMOS on
the motherboard but aftwards if it won't work the PSU should be
removed. At this point you ought to complain to t he PSU vendor
and Coolmax to see how they're going to compensate you.

Video, eh? I swapped in a known good video card, and lo! we're POSTING
again. once. then never again.

That sounds like a bios problem. Had you ever updated the
motherboard bios? First few revisions of a bios are often buggy,
it is good to update bios before any major system changes, IF
possible.

You might retry original video card and/or a different CPU, after
clearing CMOS and setting onboard jumpers to lowest bus speed
possible (if there are any jumpers).


Today I bought a new MB, and tried that instead, with both the old and
new psu, and the old and new video cards. still no joy.

Did you install new board in the case?
Try leaving new board outside of case, hooking up to only the
known working parts (at least those known working before all this
began)... the 400W PSU, CPU, heatsink/fan, 1 memory module (or
two if RIMMs), and either video card (since both have shown signs
of life). Hook nothing else up yet and see if it'll post.



So to summarize:

1 psu that used to work, 1 that is overspecced and brand new
1 video card that used to work (but I notice the cooling fan is HARD
to turn by hand now),

Fan has failed, possibly damaging GPU. If you weren't having any
problems then I'd suggest to lube it's bearing with a drop of
heavy oil but since you are having some problem, don't use that
video card until you have an (otherwise) working system you can
swap it into for testing.


1 video card that was known good previously.
(both ATI Radeons w/ DVI output)
1 mb that used to work, 1 brand new
with ram installed and without (only have a single stick)

Same processor (1.4ghz celeron, intel std heatsink)

NO combinations thereof will even give me a power-on beep.

What I see: CPU, PSU, and case fans all spin up. Video card fan does
not... for either vidcard, for either mboard. A sign... of what? that
both video cards are busted? that ATI fans only spin when needed?

I'd expect the fans to always spin but if you suspect otherwise
then seek the card's manual, manufacturer's website, or other
users of that card.


So a few questions: does the keyboard need to be plugged in in order
to POST?

No, neither does mouse


What about the CPU? Are there any clues (appart from the multimeter
I'm buying tomorrow) I can use to figure out which component(s) is
busted?

You could inspect CPU visually for cracks, burnt spots
(discoloration on bottom) or thermal compound that has gone where
it shouldn't, but otherwise the test for a CPU is clear enough-
install in a known working system.


Leave motherboard outside of case with only minimal parts I
listed above, connected until you can consistently get it to
post. Then swap in the other questionable parts one at a time,
making sure it posts more than just once per change, that it will
post after a reset and that it'll post after a power-off and
power on again.

Your reply much appreciated.

Does the video card need to plugged in, in order to POST? the new MB
(an intel d865perll) has a built-in speaker: what is the minimal
configuration I need in order to verify that the MB+CPU is potentially
functioning?

is it:
outside case, psu plugged in with both cables, and CPU(+fan) attached?

No kbd, no drives, no video card, no mem?

On 11 Aug 2004 10:08:01 -0700, (Johan)
wrote:

Your reply much appreciated.

Does the video card need to plugged in, in order to POST?

yes, typically an (otherwise) properly functioning system will
produce no-video beep code without a video card installed.
Determine your bios type and which beep code applies for
no-video.


the new MB
(an intel d865perll) has a built-in speaker: what is the minimal
configuration I need in order to verify that the MB+CPU is potentially
functioning?

I don't know for certain that your specific board will produce
generic beep with no memory installed, so I suggest installing
minimal memory, 1 module, plus CPU. If there is no sign of life
then odds are high that adding video card will not help, but
given a video card is available it may as well be added.



is it:
outside case, psu plugged in with both cables, and CPU(+fan) attached?

No kbd, no drives, no video card, no mem?

That would be a good first attempt. I can't be certain that ALL
boards will produce generic long beep without memory, but that is
typically what happens. You might consult the board manual to
see if Intel has done anything unique with beep codes on that
board. However, the question then arises whether we could assume
motherboard is then completely viable or only working well enough
to make a generic beep, which doesn't require decompressing and
running it's bios code (and proper subsystem support for doing
so) AFAIK.

kony wrote in message . ..

is it:
outside case, psu plugged in with both cables, and CPU(+fan) attached?

No kbd, no drives, no video card, no mem?

That would be a good first attempt. I can't be certain that ALL
boards will produce generic long beep without memory, but that is
typically what happens. You might consult the board manual to
see if Intel has done anything unique with beep codes on that
board. However, the question then arises whether we could assume
motherboard is then completely viable or only working well enough
to make a generic beep, which doesn't require decompressing and
running it's bios code (and proper subsystem support for doing
so) AFAIK.

Well, the multitester claims that both PSUs are putting out the right
voltage, however, because I can't do simple math and walk at the same
time, I bought the wrong Ohm resistor, so haven't been able to verify
that under load.

what a pain; I have no idea what to do next, short of buying a new
barebones pc and populating it.

On 12 Aug 2004 06:00:57 -0700, (Johan)
wrote:

kony wrote in message . ..

is it:
outside case, psu plugged in with both cables, and CPU(+fan) attached?

No kbd, no drives, no video card, no mem?

That would be a good first attempt. I can't be certain that ALL
boards will produce generic long beep without memory, but that is
typically what happens. You might consult the board manual to
see if Intel has done anything unique with beep codes on that
board. However, the question then arises whether we could assume
motherboard is then completely viable or only working well enough
to make a generic beep, which doesn't require decompressing and
running it's bios code (and proper subsystem support for doing
so) AFAIK.

Well, the multitester claims that both PSUs are putting out the right
voltage, however, because I can't do simple math and walk at the same
time, I bought the wrong Ohm resistor, so haven't been able to verify
that under load.

Load test #1: Hook up only a hard drive and short PS-On to
ground

Load test #2: Hook up entire system and turn it "on".

In both tests the voltages should remain within spec. Ideally,
preferably neither should be off by more than 4%. One rail being
significantly over spec and the other under spec, is a sign the
PSU is struggling to output on that rail which is under spec.


what a pain; I have no idea what to do next, short of buying a new
barebones pc and populating it.

It is a PITA sometimes, needing more parts just to test current
parts... part of the reason a lot of people like OEMs, to not
have to fool with it.