" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:11:25 -1000, "
wrote:

Dang it. I accidently hit another key and sent the post. My typing
skills are atrocious.

Heheh...I've done that a time or two myself.


So in the movie area Im not sure the hardware makes a huge difference
but I maybe wrong. I havent seen it with my 800XL

If I could clarify...I do understand, given the size and high res of the
2405, that I am hard pressed to get quality full screen TV. My perception is
not that bigger and better hardware will solve this dilemma, but rather a
hope that there is some video card out there that will handle scaling NTSC
broadcasts in such a way as to provide the highest possible quality. I know
that this "quality" will not be perfect and without blemish, but I'm looking
for "the best I can do" at this point in time. Nor do I believe that
dropping a bundle will resolve the issue, although I am a strong believer in
the philosophy that choosing quality products, even though they may cost
more, pays off in results and longevity.

And, incidentally, and even though the fullscreen TV quality is not
significantly better than even the AIW 9000 Pro (but it *is* better), the
AIW x800xt really makes this monitor snap in all other areas. This card
obviously shines as a gaming card (I even dug up "Far Cry" and played a few
levels, and in the process understood that my "gaming days" were over...I
was light headed for 2 hours after...), but it is also an excellent overall
card and does quite well on this display. In fact, ATI touts this card as a
"multimedia card", mostly, I think, due to all the I/O possibilities (and
the TV & video capabilities as well).

One thing I wish I had tried when I had the card was the HDTV output to the
YPrPb jacks on the 2405 to see if that made a difference when using that
input on the display. I'm still in the learning curve of this process, so I
wasn't that familiar with what could and couldn't be done with those
outputs. I have heard, however, that the componenet in jacks on the 2405
aren't that good, so I probably wouldn't get the results I was looking for
anyway.




One thing the HDTV LCDs are lower res than the PC widescreen big
screens. They tend to be 1280 x 768 or 1366 x 768 mines the latter.

Exactly! The hig resolution of the monitor vs. the low res output of NTSC is
the real issue here, thus my search for a card that handles scaling in the
best possible way, although,as I've stated, this search may be fruitless in
today's technological state.

Now the tuner area you want to get the newer AIW. Im not even sure
what TV tuner they put in that. In the old days ATI used the third
party conexant chips and their theater chip I think its called in
different products.

They have a new generation chip out now called the 550 theater or
something. It was first used in the separate cards they and other like
sapphire came out with. At best I think they would use that stuff. I
was all hot about getting it and so were many others cause there was
lots of hype at their site and other sites picked up on it about how
they had all this extra processing through hardware that cleaned up
the TV pic etc. They had split screen examples of graphics at their
website. It looled amazing.

When it came out some sites had people who ran out and bought the
sapphire to compare against the the popular rival the Hauppauge 150 (I
have this card now) which just came out too months before and set a
new low price record for hardware compression cards. They uploaded
clips of captures from both and commented on both and frankly there
was NO big difference. Not a big deal. Anandtech did a test later and
found a LITTLE difference mainly in the text which was a little
cleaner and he had to point it out in his review. Not really a big
deal. His comment was something like --- TV quality is so low that
there isnt a whole lot you can do to it nothing dramatic with the
technology they have now and the more important factor was getting a
good signal etc

Actually, I just pulled the "ATI TV Wonder Elite" out of this machine. I
heard great things about it as well, but on this system, it didn't even do
as well as the AIW when windowed. Full screen was another issue entirely.
Whereas the AIW looks 'grainy', the TVWE looks sort of 'pastey', as if I
were running at to low of color depth, although I'm set to 32 bit true. I
tried 3 different softwares with this card, and although some were better
than others, it was never really acceptable.


One guy claims he was using some old TV card and got really bad pics
but with DSCALER there was a dramatic improvement. The problem here is
how bad was his original setup? Ive used it before when I was going
through lots of software and didnt notice much of a difference but
havent used it recently so anything is possible but I dont see TV card
sites raving about how its way better than all the other programs in
Pic Quality. Sure they say its a good program but so are a lot of
programs but like i said havent used it recently.

That doesnt mean all Tuner hardware is created the same but I havent
really heard of any TV tuner hardware being vastly superior etc except
that the Hauppauge line and the cards using the ATI 550 Theater chip
are generally fine and use hardware compression for capturing so they
are preferred. However they do look grainy etc when blown up TV feeds
just do unless its HDTV of course cause the res is low.

I was thinking of HDTV Tuners and the fusion is popular but we dont
get a lot of hDTV channels here and I dont want to guess about whether
ANY of the channels QAM are scrambled or not. But if you do get QAM
signals free and clear I guess its worth having as many are buying
that card. WIth the higher res it should look better obviously because
of the higher res.

And an HD card may well be my next step, although that would mean I had 2
tuners in one machine (not necessarily a bad thing, right?), as HD is so
young and thus limited in its viewing choices. I hear the fusion card is
great, but I still have to check with my cable provider to see what is
available in this area.

So basically I think everyone is saying --- you dont probably need the
extra power for only 2D work/movies and that there probably wont be
any big differences in pic quality going to a more expensive card in
terms of hardware and that various software may or may not make a
bigger difference.

I'm not denying that software is a vital part of the equation here (and
again, it is TV that is my biggest problem. I find *most* DVD video quite
acceptable at a res of 1920x1080, although one alwasy hopes for better :-})
However, after removing the AIW x800xt and putting the 9600 pro in, there is
a fairly noticable difference in display qualities. The colors aren't as
crisp, motion not as smooth. The AIW 800xt card truly is quality (too bad
about the accompanying software...) and does very well with this monitor
(other than, of course, with NTSC). And, as I previously stated, the I/O
capabilities are very extensive, which is very attractive, and while the
x800xl is touted as a gaming card, the AIW x800xt is described as a
"multimedia" card, and rightly so.

I'm not "stuck" on the AIW x800xt, but it *is* the best card I've had with
this display. Unfortunately, it fails to fulfill my hopes regarding NTSC
fullscreen (although "windowed TV is *really* good on this card, better than
I've yet seen. But fullscreen is the main event, and so my search continues
[although, again, possibly fruitless...]).

Im going to look that up though. Is there any "upconverting" aspects
that are drastically improved on newer cards. Who knows you may be
right but I havent heard of any. In general Ive been underwhelmed with
the new TV tuners claims of great improvements in pic quality etc I
generally havent seen any big improvements from old vid cards and even
TV tuners though I think the hardware compression features and
software support and general other qualities make the Hauppauge a good
buy though its NOT HDTV capable obviously.

I also have been making forays into some kind of external "upscaling"
device. I hope to find at least an acceptable solution to this issue without
dropping a bundle, but, for my purposes, it *is* worth spending the time and
a reasonable sum to acheive acceptable results.

Thank you, John, for taking the time to respond so extensively and without
rudeness or arrogance. You seem to understand that I am merely "researching"
for a solution, which may or may not be available at this time. But, by the
time I'm through, I *will* have gained much insight into this issue, which
is, perhaps, part of the point.

Thanks again,
Hark