computer components & hardware - ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU --Which combination performs better?

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ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU --Which combination performs better?

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU -- Which combination performs better?

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU --Which combination performs better?

Tony DiMarzio wrote:
I'm afraid you've been misinformed. Nvidia is not necessarily more stable or
compatible than the equivalent ATI component in terms of chipsets or GPUs or
drivers. Some have propagated the notion that ATI products are instable;
this is just not the case. I've owned NVidia and ATI (and many other
pre-NVidia brands) and can testify to the quality of ATI parts. I currently
own an X1900XTX and the card is stable as a rock. Previous to that card I
had an X1800XT which also worked perfectly fine but which I sold on ebay to
pay for the X1900XTX. Previous to both I used a 9800 Pro which was nothing
but a joy for about 3 years. Now it's in my closet and collecting dust but
still in the same working condition as when I bought it.

There was a time when ATI drivers were not up to par, but that time is long
gone. ATI's catalyst driver team has delivered on there promises.

The crossfire chipsets have also come a long way. Check out the review of
the Asus A8R-MVP "http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2617" . Half
the price of it's NForce equivalent, just as stable, and a much better
overclocker. For all intents and purposes, an X1900XTX coupled with an
A8R-MVP is the fastest consumer based 3D solution available. ATI are "are
not great for gamers, either, in terms of speed, etc." ??

If you're gonna be brand loyal then be brand loyal. Nothing wrong with that.
But please don't post inaccurate information to a person trying to make
their own decision. Let them make there decision based on accurate
information.

Hi Tony,

I did read that review at Anandtech, and the board looked great--but,
looks like that was a hand-picked board, and in the real world, others
have not been able to achieve the same results, apparently in part
because the BIOS used at Anandtech was not released to anyone else.

I looked into that board because I noticed that Intel is using the ATI
chipset now in some of their low end boards, and I would guess that they
would be pretty careful about preserving their hard earned reputation
for stable chipsets. Reviews of the A8R from users were pretty harsh at
times....and, having had multiple problems with a VIA chipset in the
past (I have sworn at them, and off them), it's something I am sensitive to.

brand loyalty: sending this from a Tyan K8E with an ATI X700 PCIe
video card; Kingston ECC RAM. Seagate hard drives in RAID 1. XP pro
SP2. No northbridge fan on the K8E so it is quiet....I know from
statistics that n=1 is statistically insignificant, but, this system has
never ever locked up/crashed on me, ever.

accurate information and Anandtech: check out this review of Value
Ram:

All the manufacturers supplied one or more samples for testing except
Corsair. Corsair emailed us, stating that "Our policy is not to send
Value Select parts for review for a variety of reasons. After a quick
discussion here we decided to stick with that policy and sit this one
out." When we asked for clarification, Corsair expressed concern that
we would be testing performance and overclocking of their Value
products when memory chips change frequently on these products. The
concern is that the overclocking performance we would report in a
roundup today might not be what a customer would get tomorrow because
chips change frequently in value products. Corsair recommended that
customers looking for overclocking and enthusiast level performance
should purchase Corsair products that are geared to performance and
overclocking, where results are consistent.

I am a big fan of Consumer Reports: no *advertising* dollars to
potentially impact on their impartiality. Anandtech takes advertising
dollars from Corsair, Newegg, and other online retailers.

Anandtech could have ordered some Corsair Valueram online, and tested
it--they didn't, I would assume because they did not want to affect
their advertising relationship with Corsair.

Based on their review of the A8R-MVP, seems as though Anandtech may have
been given a hand picked board, one not available to the general public.
The BIOS is apparently different. (I don't know, did not purchase
one....)

By the way, I use my Macintosh at my office....the most problem free
factory built PC according to Consumer Reports users. (Note: I have a
feeling that may change this year, since it seems a lot of people had
problems with their iMac G5s....) I run Mail, Safari, Word, iPhoto, and
iChat: in the past year, Safari has crashed two or three times, does
fine after restart, and Mail, also once or twice. Does not bring the
system down. Uptime: usually 30 days; I reboot every month, just to
refresh the system memory. Otherwise, system goes into sleep mode, does
disk cleanup/other system stuff at night. Very happy with it....

From everything I have read, it seems that Intel chipset plus Intel CPU
is the most stable, most compatible, most problem free....YMMV.

HTH,

BC

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU -- Which combination performs better?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:05:11 -0500, "Tony DiMarzio"
wrote:

I'm afraid you've been misinformed. Nvidia is not necessarily more stable or
compatible than the equivalent ATI component in terms of chipsets or GPUs or
drivers. Some have propagated the notion that ATI products are instable;
this is just not the case. I've owned NVidia and ATI (and many other
pre-NVidia brands) and can testify to the quality of ATI parts. I currently
own an X1900XTX and the card is stable as a rock. Previous to that card I
had an X1800XT which also worked perfectly fine but which I sold on ebay to
pay for the X1900XTX. Previous to both I used a 9800 Pro which was nothing
but a joy for about 3 years. Now it's in my closet and collecting dust but
still in the same working condition as when I bought it.

3 or 4 samples does not a conclusion make.
Of course there are a lot that work fine, ATI would've been
out of business long ago if much if it didn't work. Problem
is rate of issues, chances there may be a problem.

There was a time when ATI drivers were not up to par, but that time is long
gone. ATI's catalyst driver team has delivered on there promises.

Nonsense and you sound like a shill.
ATIs drivers have indeed improved a lot but that's only seen
in context of going from really poor to worse than those
from a certain n company.

The crossfire chipsets have also come a long way. Check out the review of
the Asus A8R-MVP "http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2617" . Half
the price of it's NForce equivalent, just as stable, and a much better
overclocker. For all intents and purposes, an X1900XTX coupled with an
A8R-MVP is the fastest consumer based 3D solution available. ATI are "are
not great for gamers, either, in terms of speed, etc." ??

X1900XT has decent, even very good performnace. It has to
use ATI drivers though, and in a few months it won't be
fastest anymore. Coupling it with a particluar motherboard
is just silly.

If you're gonna be brand loyal then be brand loyal. Nothing wrong with that.

Actually yes there is something wrong with that when your
loyality causes you to see the world through colored
glasses. Products should be chosen in their merits, not
their brand, and also recognized to have faults. That you
don't care about a fault or don't see it in a particular
application is no consolation to another user who has
different hardware or application needs.

But please don't post inaccurate information to a person trying to make
their own decision. Let them make there decision based on accurate
information.

Same to you.

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU -- Which combination performs better?

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:05:11 -0500, "Tony DiMarzio"
wrote:

I'm afraid you've been misinformed. Nvidia is not necessarily more stable
or
compatible than the equivalent ATI component in terms of chipsets or GPUs
or
drivers. Some have propagated the notion that ATI products are instable;
this is just not the case. I've owned NVidia and ATI (and many other
pre-NVidia brands) and can testify to the quality of ATI parts. I
currently
own an X1900XTX and the card is stable as a rock. Previous to that card I
had an X1800XT which also worked perfectly fine but which I sold on ebay
to
pay for the X1900XTX. Previous to both I used a 9800 Pro which was nothing
but a joy for about 3 years. Now it's in my closet and collecting dust but
still in the same working condition as when I bought it.

3 or 4 samples does not a conclusion make.
Of course there are a lot that work fine, ATI would've been
out of business long ago if much if it didn't work. Problem
is rate of issues, chances there may be a problem.

Of course a "3 or 4 unit sample" is not sufficient to draw a conclusion on
ATI parts in general. However, the only thing that I *can* testify to is my
own experiences, and that is what I've done.

There was a time when ATI drivers were not up to par, but that time is
long
gone. ATI's catalyst driver team has delivered on there promises.

Nonsense and you sound like a shill.
ATIs drivers have indeed improved a lot but that's only seen
in context of going from really poor to worse than those
from a certain n company.

Shill? Look I know it's much more "cool" to criticize than to compliment,
but, credit where credit's due, sport. There is absolutely no empirical data
to show that your "certain n company"'s drivers are in any way "better" than
ATI's. Any claims to the contrary are at best anecdotal and incidental and
at worse flat out lies.

The crossfire chipsets have also come a long way. Check out the review of
the Asus A8R-MVP "http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2617" . Half
the price of it's NForce equivalent, just as stable, and a much better
overclocker. For all intents and purposes, an X1900XTX coupled with an
A8R-MVP is the fastest consumer based 3D solution available. ATI are "are
not great for gamers, either, in terms of speed, etc." ??

X1900XT has decent, even very good performnace. It has to
use ATI drivers though, and in a few months it won't be
fastest anymore. Coupling it with a particluar motherboard
is just silly.

Yes, normally ATI cards DO use ATI drivers. Your point? Or was that another
implied "ATI drivers are the debil!" comment? In a few months nothing will
be "fastest" any more. That's the name of the game. So if you're referring
to G71, then _assuming_ it does surpass X1900XTX, then expect a crown time
of no more than 6 months. "Coupling it with a particular motherboard is just
silly" ? Uh, silly to use an NForce mobo with high end NVidia cards or vice
versa?

If you're gonna be brand loyal then be brand loyal. Nothing wrong with
that.

Actually yes there is something wrong with that when your
loyality causes you to see the world through colored
glasses. Products should be chosen in their merits, not
their brand, and also recognized to have faults. That you
don't care about a fault or don't see it in a particular
application is no consolation to another user who has
different hardware or application needs.

Brand loyalty is a necessary component of the capitalistic model. It's the
natural result of positive experiences by the buyer and is the reward to the
seller for offering good products/services. Basically, there's nothing
inherently wrong with it. However, and like you said, "when it causes you to
see the world through colored glasses" then there is something wrong with
it. Now, please explain to me how I'm looking at the world through colored
glasses. We're not talking about standing behind a inferior product. We're
talking a company that currently has the fastest and most complex consumer
3D acceleration hardware in the world and that has consistently been toe to
toe with it's largest competitor. This is Honda vs Toyota, not Pontiac vs
BMW.

But please don't post inaccurate information to a person trying to make
their own decision. Let them make there decision based on accurate
information.

Same to you.

I believe that's what I did.

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU -- Which combination performs better?

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:04:22 -0500, "Tony DiMarzio"
wrote:

Shill? Look I know it's much more "cool" to criticize than to compliment,
but, credit where credit's due, sport. There is absolutely no empirical data
to show that your "certain n company"'s drivers are in any way "better" than
ATI's. Any claims to the contrary are at best anecdotal and incidental and
at worse flat out lies.

Nope, at best they're generous.
ATI doesn't give a damn about their customers. I've had
over a dozen servers that can't even uninstall ATI's driver
because their driver was broken and they were too apathetic
to bother fixing it. They take a "tough luck, buy our next
product and everything will be wonderful" attitude. It gets
old after a while.

X1900XT has decent, even very good performnace. It has to
use ATI drivers though, and in a few months it won't be
fastest anymore. Coupling it with a particluar motherboard
is just silly.

Yes, normally ATI cards DO use ATI drivers. Your point? Or was that another
implied "ATI drivers are the debil!" comment?

You know my point was that ATI's drivers are the weak link.
You knew it all along too, because there have been plenty of
people over the years commenting about it.

In a few months nothing will
be "fastest" any more. That's the name of the game. So if you're referring
to G71, then _assuming_ it does surpass X1900XTX, then expect a crown time
of no more than 6 months. "Coupling it with a particular motherboard is just
silly" ? Uh, silly to use an NForce mobo with high end NVidia cards or vice
versa?

Yes. But even more specifically I meant what was replied
to, a PARTICULAR motherboard, moreso than a particular
chipset. You do understand the difference?

If you're gonna be brand loyal then be brand loyal. Nothing wrong with
that.

Actually yes there is something wrong with that when your
loyality causes you to see the world through colored
glasses. Products should be chosen in their merits, not
their brand, and also recognized to have faults. That you
don't care about a fault or don't see it in a particular
application is no consolation to another user who has
different hardware or application needs.

Brand loyalty is a necessary component of the capitalistic model.

No, it's for the brain-dead.

It's the
natural result of positive experiences by the buyer

Nope, it's what happens when one has insufficient experience
to make a proper evaluation of the alternatives.

and is the reward to the
seller for offering good products/services.

Maybe in your fairy-tale world.
When I buy a product, their "reward" is my payment for that
product. If they make another product I want, their reward
is again payment for that 2nd product, and so on. You are
describing a fanboy.

Basically, there's nothing
inherently wrong with it.

LOL. You must be joking.
Yeah let's just ignore reality and pretend the grass we're
sitting on is always greenest. Sorry but that's no good.

However, and like you said, "when it causes you to
see the world through colored glasses" then there is something wrong with
it. Now, please explain to me how I'm looking at the world through colored
glasses.

It wouldn't do any good because you see no problem with
being irrational.

We're not talking about standing behind a inferior product.

Only because we includes you. A product comprised of both
hardware and software can fail on either front. If you like
the hardware enough to put up with the software, that's
fine, it's your money. That doesn't begain to mean another
person couldn't have a different priority, particularly if
they weren't trying to buy among the fastest video card at
any given moment but rather, the majority of the market.

We're
talking a company that currently has the fastest and most complex consumer
3D acceleration hardware in the world and that has consistently been toe to
toe with it's largest competitor. This is Honda vs Toyota, not Pontiac vs
BMW.

Yes you are oblivious to anything but "fastest", it would
seem, else you wouldn't be making it a primary point here.

It could definitely be like comparing Pontiac to BMW, that
GM merely shoehorned a monsterous engine in a Sunbird so it
has a great 0-60 time. Granted, it's not that ATI is lower
quality than, oh take Sis for example, but being a fanboy
doesn't begin to make them any better by will alone.

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU -- Which combination performs better?

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:04:22 -0500, "Tony DiMarzio"
wrote:

Shill? Look I know it's much more "cool" to criticize than to compliment,
but, credit where credit's due, sport. There is absolutely no empirical
data
to show that your "certain n company"'s drivers are in any way "better"
than
ATI's. Any claims to the contrary are at best anecdotal and incidental and
at worse flat out lies.

Nope, at best they're generous.
ATI doesn't give a damn about their customers. I've had
over a dozen servers that can't even uninstall ATI's driver
because their driver was broken and they were too apathetic
to bother fixing it. They take a "tough luck, buy our next
product and everything will be wonderful" attitude. It gets
old after a while.

Given the path that this discussion has gone so far, I'm much more inclined
to believe that it was your lack of experience that caused you grief in
uninstalling the ATI drivers. Fact of the matter is that ATI includes a
driver uninstaller which has never failed once for me on any of my machines.
Coincidence?

X1900XT has decent, even very good performnace. It has to
use ATI drivers though, and in a few months it won't be
fastest anymore. Coupling it with a particluar motherboard
is just silly.

Yes, normally ATI cards DO use ATI drivers. Your point? Or was that
another
implied "ATI drivers are the debil!" comment?

You know my point was that ATI's drivers are the weak link.
You knew it all along too, because there have been plenty of
people over the years commenting about it.

Yes, and likewise about drivers for NVidia cards. That would be the main
reason for these news groups - to post about issues they are having with
their hardware and or software. Oh, I forgot... NVidia has never had any
driver problems. My mistake.

In a few months nothing will
be "fastest" any more. That's the name of the game. So if you're referring
to G71, then _assuming_ it does surpass X1900XTX, then expect a crown time
of no more than 6 months. "Coupling it with a particular motherboard is
just
silly" ? Uh, silly to use an NForce mobo with high end NVidia cards or
vice
versa?

Yes. But even more specifically I meant what was replied
to, a PARTICULAR motherboard, moreso than a particular
chipset. You do understand the difference?

Yes I do understand the difference. But do you understand that a motherboard
chipset is worthless without an accompanying, well featured motherboard? All
reviews out there suggest that the A8R-MVP is the best ATI crossfire chipset
motherboard on the market, which is why I recommended it.

If you're gonna be brand loyal then be brand loyal. Nothing wrong with
that.

Actually yes there is something wrong with that when your
loyality causes you to see the world through colored
glasses. Products should be chosen in their merits, not
their brand, and also recognized to have faults. That you
don't care about a fault or don't see it in a particular
application is no consolation to another user who has
different hardware or application needs.

Brand loyalty is a necessary component of the capitalistic model.

No, it's for the brain-dead.

I'll keep that in mind.

It's the
natural result of positive experiences by the buyer

Nope, it's what happens when one has insufficient experience
to make a proper evaluation of the alternatives.

In some situations, that may be the case. However, when one does have
sufficient experience to make a proper evaluation of the alternatives, and
the alternatives are for all intents and purposes equally matched, it is
used to make the final decision between product A and product B.

and is the reward to the
seller for offering good products/services.

Maybe in your fairy-tale world.
When I buy a product, their "reward" is my payment for that
product. If they make another product I want, their reward
is again payment for that 2nd product, and so on. You are
describing a fanboy.

No I'm describing an element of capitalism. The term "fanboy" implies
reckless and ungrounded admiration for a product simply because they own it.
A fanboy makes uncalculated purchasing decisions based on popular opinion
and stubborn bias, not previous experience with the brand/product.

Basically, there's nothing
inherently wrong with it.

LOL. You must be joking.
Yeah let's just ignore reality and pretend the grass we're
sitting on is always greenest. Sorry but that's no good.

getting bored now.

However, and like you said, "when it causes you to
see the world through colored glasses" then there is something wrong with
it. Now, please explain to me how I'm looking at the world through colored
glasses.

It wouldn't do any good because you see no problem with
being irrational.

Or because you have nothing to offer to support your claim.

We're not talking about standing behind a inferior product.

Only because we includes you. A product comprised of both
hardware and software can fail on either front. If you like
the hardware enough to put up with the software, that's
fine, it's your money. That doesn't begain to mean another
person couldn't have a different priority, particularly if
they weren't trying to buy among the fastest video card at
any given moment but rather, the majority of the market.

We're
talking a company that currently has the fastest and most complex consumer
3D acceleration hardware in the world and that has consistently been toe
to
toe with it's largest competitor. This is Honda vs Toyota, not Pontiac vs
BMW.

Yes you are oblivious to anything but "fastest", it would
seem, else you wouldn't be making it a primary point here.

It could definitely be like comparing Pontiac to BMW, that
GM merely shoehorned a monsterous engine in a Sunbird so it
has a great 0-60 time. Granted, it's not that ATI is lower
quality than, oh take Sis for example, but being a fanboy
doesn't begin to make them any better by will alone.

Comparing ATI to SiS now? LOL. Sorry, but you've just deposited your last
credibilty token.

Tony

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU -- Which combination performs better?

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:33:58 -0500, "Tony DiMarzio"
wrote:

Given the path that this discussion has gone so far, I'm much more inclined
to believe that it was your lack of experience that caused you grief in
uninstalling the ATI drivers. Fact of the matter is that ATI includes a
driver uninstaller which has never failed once for me on any of my machines.
Coincidence?

No, it's that you're an idiot. I have plenty of experience
but even if I didn't it would be true.

It takes zero experience to run the driver installer, reboot
the system, click uninstall in add/remove programs and see
an error message. There is no BS "experience" factor
involved in this basic procedure.

The driver uninstaller is included in the installer. Any
further actions to uninstal besides those provided by the
driver installer are excessive and a sign of broken driver
installer.

You are deluded and have wasted enough of my time.

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU -- Which combination performs better?

"kony" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:33:58 -0500, "Tony DiMarzio"
wrote:

Given the path that this discussion has gone so far, I'm much more
inclined
to believe that it was your lack of experience that caused you grief in
uninstalling the ATI drivers. Fact of the matter is that ATI includes a
driver uninstaller which has never failed once for me on any of my
machines.
Coincidence?

No, it's that you're an idiot. I have plenty of experience
but even if I didn't it would be true.

It takes zero experience to run the driver installer, reboot
the system, click uninstall in add/remove programs and see
an error message. There is no BS "experience" factor
involved in this basic procedure.

The driver uninstaller is included in the installer. Any
further actions to uninstal besides those provided by the
driver installer are excessive and a sign of broken driver
installer.

You are deluded and have wasted enough of my time.

;)

ATI chipset + ATI GPU _or_ nForce chipset + nVidia GPU -- Which combination performs better?

.....and that's the end of that. Well, it's been a great thread, and we
really nipped it in the bud before it devolved into an all-out
flamewar. I would have given another 5-7 posts before someone made the
unavoidable mention of nazis somehow (as in "well, you know, intel's
parent-company sold its stuff to the nazis in wwii"). But, in all, I'm
glad it worked out for the best. Damn, well, there I went and did it,
I already mentioned nazis by mentioning the mentioning of them. Gosh
darn it. Stay tuned for our next thread.