Dead computer?
 

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

Sometime on, or about Fri, 28 Jan 2005 15:59:48 -0500, Patty wrote:

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

I had the same problem the other week and found out it was a fried CPU. If
absolutely nothing happens when you start the system up (besides the fans)
then suspect the CPU, RAM, motherboard or power supply. I think you've
eliminated the power supply as the culprit. The only way I know is to start
swapping the RAM and CPU, etc. until you narrow down the problem.

Sam
--
To mail me, please get rid of the BS first

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:34:03 -0800, Sam wrote:

I had the same problem the other week and found out it was a fried CPU. If
absolutely nothing happens when you start the system up (besides the fans)
then suspect the CPU, RAM, motherboard or power supply. I think you've
eliminated the power supply as the culprit. The only way I know is to start
swapping the RAM and CPU, etc. until you narrow down the problem.

Sam

Since I don't have any parts for a system like this (just helping out a
friend) I don't have anything to swap. I did try reseating the RAM, let me
tell you, this must be the cheapest motherboard ever made, I had a heck of
a time getting the RAM to seat back in. Normally you push them in the slot
and they snap lock. Not with these, they would not lock in and kept
falling out. Finally, after much wiggling and pushing I got them to seat.
I suspect there's many problems with this system. I'm going to suggest we
just try to salvage what we can and put together a different system for
her. Was just scrounging all my old parts, but don't have enough SIMMs to
put anything together (have motherboard, CPU from an old 200Mhz system). I
must explain here... computer is for a friend's stepmom who only uses it to
balance her checkbook, play Reversi, and check email through AOL. She
doesn't need a supersystem. She has very limited or no funds to buy a new
computer. Anyone got some leftover EDO Simms laying around they don't need
anymore? vbg

Patty

Patty wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:34:03 -0800, Sam wrote:

I had the same problem the other week and found out it was a fried CPU. If
absolutely nothing happens when you start the system up (besides the fans)
then suspect the CPU, RAM, motherboard or power supply. I think you've
eliminated the power supply as the culprit. The only way I know is to start
swapping the RAM and CPU, etc. until you narrow down the problem.

Sam


Since I don't have any parts for a system like this (just helping out a
friend) I don't have anything to swap. I did try reseating the RAM, let me
tell you, this must be the cheapest motherboard ever made, I had a heck of
a time getting the RAM to seat back in. Normally you push them in the slot
and they snap lock. Not with these, they would not lock in and kept
falling out.

That is often caused by the motherboard flexing under the pressure of
trying to seat the RAM module.

Finally, after much wiggling and pushing I got them to seat.
I suspect there's many problems with this system. I'm going to suggest we
just try to salvage what we can and put together a different system for
her. Was just scrounging all my old parts, but don't have enough SIMMs to
put anything together (have motherboard, CPU from an old 200Mhz system). I
must explain here... computer is for a friend's stepmom who only uses it to
balance her checkbook, play Reversi, and check email through AOL. She
doesn't need a supersystem. She has very limited or no funds to buy a new
computer. Anyone got some leftover EDO Simms laying around they don't need
anymore? vbg

Patty

Patty wrote:

Computer in question had a problem when it last ran... Computer froze and
the only way they could shut it down was to unplug it. When they tried to
power it up again, nothing would happen. They took it to the person who
built it who proclaims, it's fried. She got it back from him (minus the
power supply because he says that's what fried). I said I would look at
it. So I put in a power supply. The cpu fan runs but nothing else on
power up (power light on case lights up). In order to shut it down, you
have to either unplug the power supply or turn the power supply off (it has
a switch). My question is.... did this thing fry MY power supply now (the
power supply fan runs)? Or, is there another motherboard problem that is
causing nothing else to power up (CD-Rom, hard drive, floppy) nothing
initializes. Could that be because the motherboard is dead and the BIOS is
not going through post? No beeps, nothing when you try to power up. My
knowledge of the system is limited, it is a homebuilt with a Pentium II
CPU. Motherboard has 3 ISA slots, 4 PCI Slots and 1 AGP Slot. No markings
on the motherboard, it has an Intel controller. I know I'm not offering
much info here, but any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Much thanks.

Patty

Just off hand I'd say either the processor is dead (and shorted) or the
motherboard is and that's killing the 5 or 3.3 volt rails so that nothing
electronic runs (but 12 volt may be up, or partially up, to spin the CPU
and PSU fans).

I'd first remove all PCI cards, if any, to see if one of them is the
problem (unlikely, unfortunately). Try the hard drive on the PSU by itself
to see if it spins up. Same with the CDROM. If they spin up, I.E. not dead,
then it's either the CPU or motherboard.

Pull the CPU and see if the hard drive/CDROM/floppy light up. It obviously
won't boot but if they light then it's the CPU that's dead. If they still
don't then it's likely the motherboard.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:13:48 -0600, David Maynard wrote:
Just off hand I'd say either the processor is dead (and shorted) or the
motherboard is and that's killing the 5 or 3.3 volt rails so that nothing
electronic runs (but 12 volt may be up, or partially up, to spin the CPU
and PSU fans).

I'd first remove all PCI cards, if any, to see if one of them is the
problem (unlikely, unfortunately). Try the hard drive on the PSU by itself
to see if it spins up. Same with the CDROM. If they spin up, I.E. not dead,
then it's either the CPU or motherboard.

Pull the CPU and see if the hard drive/CDROM/floppy light up. It obviously
won't boot but if they light then it's the CPU that's dead. If they still
don't then it's likely the motherboard.

Thanks for the suggestions, but as far as I'm concerned since the
motherboard and CPU are so old (I figure 5-6 years) I'm not sure either
would be easily replaceable even if I found out which it was that was
failing. Turns out it's a Gigabyte GA686LX4 motherboard with a Pentium II
266 Mhz CPU. 32 MB RAM. As I said, she doesn't need much computer to do
what she's doing. I'm figuring I've got an old 200 Mhz AT board and CPU in
a case, just need a couple SIMMs, which I may be able to come with up since
where I work has a number of old AT systems just sitting around unused. I
figure with what we can come up with we can probably build her a similar
system as what she had for no cost to her at all.

Patty

I learned the hard way to stop taking these old flakers
to raise. If you build her up a junker, it will fail too,
and no doubt take down her tax records and retirement
account, and she will blame you and haul the thing to
the XBOX PRO-TEENS who will charge her $300
just to recover her data onto a floppy. You will be in
to this for the rest of your life, plus lose a friend while
trying to do her a favor. Tell her to buy a DELL, and
get it going for her. If she says she is starving to death,
and will have to go raise camels in the desert, just
smile and say, "That sounds like fun, and you can
send me an email about it on your new DELL." If
she needs someone to complain too, she can call DELL
tech-support. They specialize in little-old-lady ( LOL)
Psycho-lology, and you can get your life back.

johns

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.

Patty wrote:
Thanks for the suggestions, but as far as I'm concerned since the
motherboard and CPU are so old (I figure 5-6 years) I'm not sure
either would be easily replaceable even if I found out which it
was that was failing. Turns out it's a Gigabyte GA686LX4
motherboard with a Pentium II 266 Mhz CPU. 32 MB RAM. As I said,
she doesn't need much computer to do what she's doing. I'm
figuring I've got an old 200 Mhz AT board and CPU in a case, just
need a couple SIMMs, which I may be able to come with up since
where I work has a number of old AT systems just sitting around
unused. I figure with what we can come up with we can probably
build her a similar system as what she had for no cost to her at
all.

Patty

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:45:51 -0800, johns wrote:

I learned the hard way to stop taking these old flakers
to raise. If you build her up a junker, it will fail too,
and no doubt take down her tax records and retirement
account, and she will blame you and haul the thing to
the XBOX PRO-TEENS who will charge her $300
just to recover her data onto a floppy. You will be in
to this for the rest of your life, plus lose a friend while
trying to do her a favor. Tell her to buy a DELL, and
get it going for her. If she says she is starving to death,
and will have to go raise camels in the desert, just
smile and say, "That sounds like fun, and you can
send me an email about it on your new DELL." If
she needs someone to complain too, she can call DELL
tech-support. They specialize in little-old-lady ( LOL)
Psycho-lology, and you can get your life back.

johns

First, she only puts her checkbook on there not all of her tax records.
She's not that computer literate. She doesn't have a retirement account.
Second, she does NOT have the money to buy a new computer. Why do you
think she ended up with this junker to begin with? I'm glad you think that
elderly people can just quit eating in order to buy a new computer from
Dell. That's not the real world. People living on just social security
don't have the funds to go out an purchase new computers that have much
more power than they really need. I use old computers all the time and
from my experience, sometimes the old ones last longer than the newer ones
(remembering my old KT7 w/RAID motherboard that died while I have a much
older Biostar that is still running). If I didn't have a need for the
older computers I'M using on my home network, I'd just give her one of
those, they'll probably last for years.

Patty

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:55:53 -0500, w_tom wrote:

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.


While that's true, and if I hadn't already put in a different power supply
(I replaced the one that was supposedly fried), I would buy the equipment
to test it. But, what are the odds that two different power supplies would
be bad? Two different power supplies, same result. Does that make it a
power supply problem?

Patty

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:55:53 -0500, w_tom wrote:

Doors don't close. So they kept replacing doors. No one
noticed the foundation had collapsed. Does this sounds like
your computer problem?

Start at step one. We must first verify the foundation.
This requires an inexpensive and ubiquitous 3.5 digit
multimeter. No cheaper way around this solution. We must
determine which of three power supply system components is
dead OR determine the entire 'foundation' (power supply
system) is working. Again, we need that meter so that this is
verification is accomplished in but a few minutes (reading how
to do it takes many time longer than the actual measuring
task).

Information in these previous posts report where to measure
and what numbers to expect. In short, measure voltages on the
red, yellow, orange, and purple wires. Those voltages must be
within upper 3/4 limits of table. Purple wire voltage must be
there always - power on or off (which is why you must always
unplug a computer from wall before changing it). When
computer powers on, voltages then appear on red, yellow, and
orange wires - again in the upper 3/4 limits of those specs.

Any power supply can spin fans and hard disk, light LEDs,
and still be 100% defective. Without numbers, no one can say
whether power supply is good or bad. Previous discussion that
provides details on where to measure, what those limits are
(you must measure in upper 3/4 of those limits), and define
what is a good power supply:
"Computer doesnt start at all" in alt.comp.hardware on 10
Jan 2004 at
http://tinyurl.com/2t69q and
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa

Even if you don't understand what those numbers report,
those numbers provide powerful facts so that others (with more
knowledge) can immediately provide help. Currently you
provide only enough facts to wildly speculate.

Once we have established the power supply system as
functional, only then can we move on to other suspects. Power
supply system (which is more than just a power supply) is the
foundation. First we must confirm the foundation is intact
before ever considering any other possible problem.

I have a multimeter, but I don't know what kind it is. I know it's a
Digital Multimeter, I know it does DC voltage measurement, DC 10 Amp
measurement as well as AC voltage measurement. I don't know much about
this and I'm not sure how to use it or set it to use it. The book is not
helpful to my "non-electrical knowledge" brain. ;o) All I know is it's a
GB Instruments GDT-11 Digital Multimeter. Maybe I'll do a Google search
and see if I can find some info on it to try to understand more how to use
it and how it works and if I can use it to check the power supply, which I
am confident that works as it should.

Patty

Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.

Patty wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 03:55:53 -0500, w_tom wrote:
I have a multimeter, but I don't know what kind it is. I know it's a
Digital Multimeter, I know it does DC voltage measurement, DC 10 Amp
measurement as well as AC voltage measurement. I don't know much
about
this and I'm not sure how to use it or set it to use it. The book is
not
helpful to my "non-electrical knowledge" brain. ;o) All I know is
it's a
GB Instruments GDT-11 Digital Multimeter. Maybe I'll do a Google
search
and see if I can find some info on it to try to understand more how
to use
it and how it works and if I can use it to check the power supply,
which I
am confident that works as it should.

Patty

On 29 Jan 2005 09:33:11 -0800, w_tom wrote:

Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.


Do you have the computer and power supply turned on when you do this?
Thanks so much. I'm learning something new here.

Patty

Sometime on, or about Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:45:51 -0800, johns wrote:

I learned the hard way to stop taking these old flakers
to raise. If you build her up a junker, it will fail too,
and no doubt take down her tax records and retirement
account, and she will blame you and haul the thing to
the XBOX PRO-TEENS who will charge her $300
just to recover her data onto a floppy. You will be in
to this for the rest of your life, plus lose a friend while
trying to do her a favor. Tell her to buy a DELL, and
get it going for her. If she says she is starving to death,
and will have to go raise camels in the desert, just
smile and say, "That sounds like fun, and you can
send me an email about it on your new DELL." If
she needs someone to complain too, she can call DELL
tech-support. They specialize in little-old-lady ( LOL)
Psycho-lology, and you can get your life back.

johns

Any computer can die, whether old or new. That's what backups are for.

Sam
--
To mail me, please get rid of the BS first

On 29 Jan 2005 09:33:11 -0800, w_tom wrote:

Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.


I'm sorry, I hate to sound terribly blond here, but I don't understand how
this works. If I'm supposed to get a reading of 12.0 here, how can I when
the display is only 0.00? I think that perhaps this is the wrong kind of
multimeter. Can someone please explain this to me clearly? How does this
work? What am I supposed to touch the red and black leads on the
multimeter to? Am I supposed to have the power supply plugged in, turned
on and the computer turned on as well? Or, just the power supply turned on
or none of the above? I understand that the big plastic connectors on the
power supply that connect to the drives are supposed to be the 12v, right?
But which are the -12v? Which are the 3.3? I am so confused here. I've
never done this before. Thanks so much. I'm just thinking I should stick
this power supply in another box and see if it works, that to me would be
much simpler.

Patty

Dear Patty,
Put the multimeter away and have a cup of tea. Although someone here
will be more than happy to type the play by play of the how to's, you
should not mess around with electricity of a higher voltage. Start out
with a battery 'D' cell or AA, and practice, not a potentially
dangerous piece of equipment.


"Patty" wrote in message
.. .
On 29 Jan 2005 09:33:11 -0800, w_tom wrote:

Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read
voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.


I'm sorry, I hate to sound terribly blond here, but I don't
understand how
this works. If I'm supposed to get a reading of 12.0 here, how can
I when
the display is only 0.00? I think that perhaps this is the wrong
kind of
multimeter. Can someone please explain this to me clearly? How
does this
work? What am I supposed to touch the red and black leads on the
multimeter to? Am I supposed to have the power supply plugged in,
turned
on and the computer turned on as well? Or, just the power supply
turned on
or none of the above? I understand that the big plastic connectors
on the
power supply that connect to the drives are supposed to be the 12v,
right?
But which are the -12v? Which are the 3.3? I am so confused here.
I've
never done this before. Thanks so much. I'm just thinking I should
stick
this power supply in another box and see if it works, that to me
would be
much simpler.

Patty

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:37:52 -0800, JAD wrote:

Dear Patty,
Put the multimeter away and have a cup of tea. Although someone here
will be more than happy to type the play by play of the how to's, you
should not mess around with electricity of a higher voltage. Start out
with a battery 'D' cell or AA, and practice, not a potentially
dangerous piece of equipment.



Well, I did a rechargeable AA battery. It tested 1.28v on the multimeter
and the battery should be 1.2v so I guess that's pretty good. And, I don't
drink tea, I'd much rather have an Absolute and Diet Coke. ;o) Besides,
I've already helped my husband re-wire our house so I do understand
something about electricity, I just don't understand how these multimeters
work.

Patty

as long as you know the dangers.........

ok so then you must realize that the power must be on....only, if you
pull the connector off the mainboard the PSU will not function..... if
you are just testing the 12 v supply to the hard drives...which is
only a small part of what the PSU supplies, then that doesn't apply.
so black is ground and yellow and red are hot, each supplying a
different voltage. black to black red to yellow or red on the
molex connector to the HD's. But once again another 'oddity' both
blacks are not 'common'. Confused yet?


"Patty" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:37:52 -0800, JAD wrote:

Dear Patty,
Put the multimeter away and have a cup of tea. Although someone
here
will be more than happy to type the play by play of the how to's,
you
should not mess around with electricity of a higher voltage. Start
out
with a battery 'D' cell or AA, and practice, not a potentially
dangerous piece of equipment.



Well, I did a rechargeable AA battery. It tested 1.28v on the
multimeter
and the battery should be 1.2v so I guess that's pretty good. And,
I don't
drink tea, I'd much rather have an Absolute and Diet Coke. ;o)
Besides,
I've already helped my husband re-wire our house so I do understand
something about electricity, I just don't understand how these
multimeters
work.

Patty

Just came across a neat gizmo called an "Antec Power Supply Tester"
recommended by Tom's Hardware. Have one waiting for me at Circuit City
(ordered online for instore pickup). At $10 (including tax) the price is
right and it's suppose to make testing power supplies much simpler. I'm
still not sure the multimeter I have is the right kind to have, but we'll
see when I get the power supply tester. Thanks everyone for the
suggestions.

Patty

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:51:58 -0800, Sam wrote:

Sometime on, or about Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:45:51 -0800, johns wrote:

I learned the hard way to stop taking these old flakers
to raise. If you build her up a junker, it will fail too,
and no doubt take down her tax records and retirement
account, and she will blame you and haul the thing to
the XBOX PRO-TEENS who will charge her $300
just to recover her data onto a floppy. You will be in
to this for the rest of your life, plus lose a friend while
trying to do her a favor. Tell her to buy a DELL, and
get it going for her. If she says she is starving to death,
and will have to go raise camels in the desert, just
smile and say, "That sounds like fun, and you can
send me an email about it on your new DELL." If
she needs someone to complain too, she can call DELL
tech-support. They specialize in little-old-lady ( LOL)
Psycho-lology, and you can get your life back.

johns

Any computer can die, whether old or new. That's what backups are for.

Sam

Yeah, and has anyone called Dell Tech Support in recent years? You get
someone who barely speaks English and the first thing they tell you for any
problem is your Windows is corrupted and you need to reformat and reinstall
Windows. Not something I'd want to leave up to a computer illiterate old
lady.

Patty

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:24:25 -0800, JAD wrote:

as long as you know the dangers.........

ok so then you must realize that the power must be on....only, if you
pull the connector off the mainboard the PSU will not function..... if
you are just testing the 12 v supply to the hard drives...which is
only a small part of what the PSU supplies, then that doesn't apply.
so black is ground and yellow and red are hot, each supplying a
different voltage. black to black red to yellow or red on the
molex connector to the HD's. But once again another 'oddity' both
blacks are not 'common'. Confused yet?


Well, I understand all about hots and grounds. However, with the Antec
Power Supply Tester, it should make life much simpler. From what I
understand from reading about it at Tom's Hardware site, you plug it into
the power supply (main power plug that goes to the motherboard), it puts a
load on the power supply, and then has places that allow you to check the
various voltages. Sounds simple enough, hopefully I can get to Circuit
City tonite to pick it up and give it a try. Then I don't have to worry
about the hots, grounds and whether they are common or not. Thanks.

Patty

Patty wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 10:51:58 -0800, Sam wrote:

Sometime on, or about Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:45:51 -0800, johns wrote:

I learned the hard way to stop taking these old flakers
to raise. If you build her up a junker, it will fail too,
and no doubt take down her tax records and retirement
account, and she will blame you and haul the thing to
the XBOX PRO-TEENS who will charge her $300
just to recover her data onto a floppy. You will be in
to this for the rest of your life, plus lose a friend while
trying to do her a favor. Tell her to buy a DELL, and
get it going for her. If she says she is starving to death,
and will have to go raise camels in the desert, just
smile and say, "That sounds like fun, and you can
send me an email about it on your new DELL." If
she needs someone to complain too, she can call DELL
tech-support. They specialize in little-old-lady ( LOL)
Psycho-lology, and you can get your life back.

johns

Any computer can die, whether old or new. That's what backups are
for.

Sam

Yeah, and has anyone called Dell Tech Support in recent years? You
get someone who barely speaks English and the first thing they tell
you for any problem is your Windows is corrupted and you need to
reformat and reinstall Windows. Not something I'd want to leave up to
a computer illiterate old lady.

Patty

That usually applies to the home systems. Business system support is kept
in the USA due to the fall out from the non english speaking or EASL
(English As Second Language) support people. But it doesn't matter, most of
Dell's support people are totally useless, clueless, and just plain
ignorant. If it's not on the script, they can't fix it! And it really
shames me that this is a Texas company.

I know from experience, they just replaced almost every part on a dead
Deall, some even twice before they finally relented and replaced the whole
box. (Thank God for the extended service contract. 67 days left!) This is
not the first time this has happened and we are in a small office with only
16 machines. Kinda funny though the Dell's have a poor track record and the
machines that I have built keep on running without incident.
Hmmmmm............

Dude! You're getting a Dud, I mean Dell!

S

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:39:26 GMT, sbb78247 wrote:
That usually applies to the home systems. Business system support is kept
in the USA due to the fall out from the non english speaking or EASL
(English As Second Language) support people. But it doesn't matter, most of
Dell's support people are totally useless, clueless, and just plain
ignorant. If it's not on the script, they can't fix it! And it really
shames me that this is a Texas company.

I know from experience, they just replaced almost every part on a dead
Deall, some even twice before they finally relented and replaced the whole
box. (Thank God for the extended service contract. 67 days left!) This is
not the first time this has happened and we are in a small office with only
16 machines. Kinda funny though the Dell's have a poor track record and the
machines that I have built keep on running without incident.
Hmmmmm............

Dude! You're getting a Dud, I mean Dell!

S

Yes, I am aware of that... but we were discussing an elderly lady getting a
Dell for a home use system, not a business computer. Most tech support has
gone downhill in recent years, and not just with Dell.

Patty

Patty wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:39:26 GMT, sbb78247 wrote:
That usually applies to the home systems. Business system support
is kept in the USA due to the fall out from the non english speaking
or EASL (English As Second Language) support people. But it doesn't
matter, most of Dell's support people are totally useless, clueless,
and just plain ignorant. If it's not on the script, they can't fix
it! And it really shames me that this is a Texas company.

I know from experience, they just replaced almost every part on a
dead Deall, some even twice before they finally relented and
replaced the whole box. (Thank God for the extended service
contract. 67 days left!) This is not the first time this has
happened and we are in a small office with only 16 machines. Kinda
funny though the Dell's have a poor track record and the machines
that I have built keep on running without incident.
Hmmmmm............

Dude! You're getting a Dud, I mean Dell!

S

Yes, I am aware of that... but we were discussing an elderly lady
getting a Dell for a home use system, not a business computer. Most
tech support has gone downhill in recent years, and not just with
Dell.

Patty

Yes Patty, I know that, I was commenting on the fact that Dell just sucks in
general. Regardless if it is for a 5-year old kid, or a grandmother, Dell
sucks out loud. I guess you missed the point about home built machines
being better?

Kinda
funny though the Dell's have a poor track record and the machines
that I have built keep on running without incident.
Hmmmmm............

Couldn't be more obvious! (almost agreeing with you if it were)

You know DISCUSSION includes personal experiences so others can draw on it
and make their own conclusions, or does your brain not work that way?

Now off you go to sift through yours and everyone you know's junk pile to
hopefully come up with something that works.

Good Luck, HTH, GFIA

S

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:40:49 GMT, sbb78247 wrote:

Kinda
funny though the Dell's have a poor track record and the machines
that I have built keep on running without incident.
Hmmmmm............

While for the most part, this is true, most computers (even homebuilt) are
only as good as the parts that comprise them. I once built the computer
from hell. Yes, that thing gave me nothing but problems. After much
fooling around with it, upgrading BIOS, tweaking, I finally got it mostly
stable. The mainboard was an ABIT KT7 w/RAID (now known as the bad
capacitor boards) and I finally removed it when the capacitors began to
look iffy and another system with the same board that I had built had
already died, and I now run a much more dependable system. Sometimes you
never know, you try to buy what you think is good and it doesn't always
turn out that way. However, when you've built it yourself you only have
yourself and maybe these knowledgeable folks in these newsgroups as your
tech support (which can be MUCH better than Dell or other tech support).

You know DISCUSSION includes personal experiences so others can draw on it
and make their own conclusions, or does your brain not work that way?

I was just pointing out that we were considering a different situation. I
do remember when Dell out of the country tech support did handle business
computers. Where I work, one of the ladies called Dell support and that's
exactly what she was told, so she did reinstall Windows. What a mess.
Everything on that system needed to be reconfigured (network logins, etc.)
and she lost all her programs as well which needed to be reinstalled. She
did not know this would happen. Since it's a small company, we do not have
an IT department (only 4 employees total, real small). I told her next
time she had a problem to call me and I'd help her work on it.

Now off you go to sift through yours and everyone you know's junk pile to
hopefully come up with something that works.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll come up with something. This lady doesn't need much.
Since she was running a 266Mhz system with only 32MB RAM (and it was
sufficient for her needs) almost any old computer (better than a 486) will
more than likely do well for her. Besides, I have lots of old junk I'd
like to get rid of... don't you? vbg Btw, I have an old modem in this
system now, that I got from who knows where, (56K modem) and after
searching around, found drivers for it that work and it's used for faxing.
So, old "junk" can be useful at times too. ;o)

Good Luck, HTH, GFIA

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Patty

Patty wrote:
On 29 Jan 2005 09:33:11 -0800, w_tom wrote:


Power on digital multimeter. Turn selector switch to DC volts -
preferably the 20 volt range. Touch leads to points. Read voltage
number from display. When done, turn meter power off.



Do you have the computer and power supply turned on when you do this?

w_tom's directions are a little too simple for you. You could
accidently produce some smoke if you use the probes wrong. I think you
need a little work on the basics first ... try to master the definitions
of voltage, current, resistance, and power.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/ would not be a bad place to start. Type
"electricity" into the friendly box so as to reach
http://science.howstuffworks.com/electricity.htm

Thanks so much. I'm learning something new here.

Patty

You measured the battery at 1.28 volts. You have
demonstrated how that multimeter works. As long as selector
switch stays in DC volts, then nothing exposed inside the
computer touched by those meter probes will be damaged and
nothing exposed inside that computer will damage the meter.

Notice colored wires from power supply to motherboard.
Measure from each color wire (using red meter lead) to black
wire (using black meter lead). Best place to measure is to
stick meter lead into that white nylon connector where each
wire terminates at motherboard.

Now when computer power is off but connected to wall
receptacle, still, +5 volts appears on purple wire. No other
voltages appear. When power switch is pressed, all those
other voltages should measure in spec.

The Antec power supply tester does not provide useful
information. It can report a power supply as defective BUT
will not report the power supply good. Your power supply
could output voltages, but not enough to meet specs. Then
that Antec tester would report a defective supply as good.
Those who never learned basic electricity will often recommend
that overpriced power supply tester rather than learn how a
meter works. As you have demonstrated with the battery, it is
not difficult.

There is no faster solution to testing power supplies than
using a meter. Never disconnect any wires inside that
computer to test the supply. Just touch leads to ends of
colored wires and read voltages. Best test of a power supply
is under load - connected to a computer. Power supply tester
does not provide that load.

Again, a chart with numbers and wire colors is listed in "I
think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5 Feb
2004 at
http://www.tinyurl.com/2musa
Your voltages must measure in the upper 3/4 of those limits.
Any confusion: then post those numbers here.

Patty wrote:
Well, I did a rechargeable AA battery. It tested 1.28v on the
multimeter and the battery should be 1.2v so I guess that's pretty
good. And, I don't drink tea, I'd much rather have an Absolute
and Diet Coke. ;o) Besides, I've already helped my husband
re-wire our house so I do understand something about electricity,
I just don't understand how these multimeters work.

Patty

sbb78247 wrote:

Good Luck, HTH, GFIA

Go find it anywhere?
Georgia Food Industry Association?
Gerald R. Ford International Airport?
Go forth in arrogance?

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:28:02 -0500, w_tom wrote:

The Antec power supply tester does not provide useful
information. It can report a power supply as defective BUT
will not report the power supply good. Your power supply
could output voltages, but not enough to meet specs. Then
that Antec tester would report a defective supply as good.
Those who never learned basic electricity will often recommend
that overpriced power supply tester rather than learn how a
meter works. As you have demonstrated with the battery, it is
not difficult.


As far as I understand from reading the info at Tom's Hardware, the Antec
ATX Power Supply Tester allows you to check the various voltages using a
meter. This is quoted from:

http://www4.tomshardware.com/column/2001101

"The Antec ATX Power Suppy Tester is a helpful gadget, as it allows testing
of the power supply with a built-in 25W 5.4 ohm load to generate steady
output. The ATX Power Supply Tester also has the ability to put a meter on
the connector to check the +5V, +3.3V and the 12V voltage output. This,
along with my volt meter, have become two of the most important items in my
tool case."

Since it only cost $10, I still plan to try it.

Patty

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:28:02 -0500, w_tom wrote:

Notice colored wires from power supply to motherboard.
Measure from each color wire (using red meter lead) to black
wire (using black meter lead). Best place to measure is to
stick meter lead into that white nylon connector where each
wire terminates at motherboard.

Now when computer power is off but connected to wall
receptacle, still, +5 volts appears on purple wire. No other
voltages appear. When power switch is pressed, all those
other voltages should measure in spec.



I got +4.99 on the purple. But I can't seem to get the others to work. I
can't get any reading with the power supply connected to the motherboard, I
think my probes are too big to fit in the backside of the connector. I got
the +4.99 with the motherboard disconnected from the power supply and by
putting the red probe in the purple and the black probe in the closest
black wire in the end of the connector where it would attach to the
motherboard. Power supply plugged in and turned on, computer switched
off, of course.

Please forgive my questions as I am a novice at checking power on a
computer. Give me a wall socket and I'm ok. ;o)

Patty

Patty wrote:

with the Antec Power Supply Tester, it should make life
much simpler. From what I understand from reading about
it at Tom's Hardware site, you plug it into the power
supply (main power plug that goes to the motherboard),
it puts a load on the power supply, and then has
places that allow you to check the various voltages.
Sounds simple enough, hopefully I can get to Circuit
City tonite to pick it up and give it a try.

If the mobo didn't work even with a new PSU, maybe the mobo has been
zapped or it has bad capacitors (see www.badcaps.net) in its voltage
regulator (long row of capacitors between that long tan slot in back
and the rear connectors -- if any are bulging or leaking on top, they
may all be bad).

PSU testers are so bad that they'll say that a PSU is OK even if it's
voltages are all way off. I had one do that even though the +12V rail
was too low to make the HD spin.

It makes no sense for you to buy a PSU tester because you already have
a digital multimeter that's a lot, lot more accurate.. All you need is
a paperclip to turn on the PSU by shorting the green wire (pin 13) to
any black wire (pin 14 or 15 will do) plus maybe something to load down
the PSU, like an HD or a couple of resistors. The +5V can be loaded
with a 5-10 ohm resistor rated for at least 10 watts and connected
across red and black wires (some PSUs won't even start without a load
on the +5V). The +12V can use 10-20 ohms, rated at least 20W and
connected across yellow and black wires. A working mobo can be the
load instead, and it's OK to short the green wire to ground even when
the mobo is attached, or you can blip the two mobo pins that normally
connect to the power button.

Patty wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:28:02 -0500, w_tom wrote:

I
can't get any reading with the power supply connected to the motherboard, I
think my probes are too big to fit in the backside of the connector.

Use some slender conductors such as paperclips to reach inside the molex
connnector, then touch your test leads to those conductors. Radio
Shack's #270-354 Alligator Clip Adapters
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...t%5Fid=270-354
are useful in this context.

Don't accidently short across the contacts whose voltage you are testing
or you may have some unwelcome smoke or a blown fuse.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 17:09:47 GMT, Matt wrote:

Patty wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 08:28:02 -0500, w_tom wrote:

I
can't get any reading with the power supply connected to the motherboard, I
think my probes are too big to fit in the backside of the connector.

Use some slender conductors such as paperclips to reach inside the molex
connnector, then touch your test leads to those conductors. Radio
Shack's #270-354 Alligator Clip Adapters
http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...t%5Fid=270-354
are useful in this context.

Don't accidently short across the contacts whose voltage you are testing
or you may have some unwelcome smoke or a blown fuse.

Well, I went ahead and used the power supply tester. I had already gotten
+4.99V on the purple with just using the meter. With the tester, I got
+5.16V on the +5V, +11.92V on the +12V, and +3.4V on the +3.3V. (Now that
I think of it, I remember these types of numbers when I used to have the
power supply in my system and checked it using MBM5.) Can I assume now
that the power supply is ok? Or should I try to test more wires by
following your instructions? I really don't want to short out my power
supply, I may need it in the future. It's an Enlight 300w that originally
came with my case (was replaced with an Enermax 350w.) I'm still thinking
it's the motherboard that has a problem since it didn't work with its
original power supply (which I don't have since the person they took the
computer to in the first place said it was fried and kept it... yeah right)
and this one is my own. I still think two different power supplies, same
result... dead motherboard or CPU.

Being an owner of two Abit KT7 motherboards, I know all about bad
capacitors and how to recognize them. ;o)

Thanks much for your help.

Patty

Patty wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 03:40:49 GMT, sbb78247 wrote:

Kinda
funny though the Dell's have a poor track record and the machines
that I have built keep on running without incident.
Hmmmmm............

While for the most part, this is true, most computers (even
homebuilt) are only as good as the parts that comprise them. I once
built the computer from hell. Yes, that thing gave me nothing but
problems. After much fooling around with it, upgrading BIOS,
tweaking, I finally got it mostly stable. The mainboard was an ABIT
KT7 w/RAID (now known as the bad capacitor boards) and I finally
removed it when the capacitors began to look iffy and another system
with the same board that I had built had already died, and I now run
a much more dependable system. Sometimes you never know, you try to
buy what you think is good and it doesn't always turn out that way.
However, when you've built it yourself you only have yourself and
maybe these knowledgeable folks in these newsgroups as your tech
support (which can be MUCH better than Dell or other tech support).

You know DISCUSSION includes personal experiences so others can draw
on it and make their own conclusions, or does your brain not work
that way?

I was just pointing out that we were considering a different
situation. I do remember when Dell out of the country tech support
did handle business computers. Where I work, one of the ladies
called Dell support and that's exactly what she was told, so she did
reinstall Windows. What a mess. Everything on that system needed to
be reconfigured (network logins, etc.) and she lost all her programs
as well which needed to be reinstalled. She did not know this would
happen. Since it's a small company, we do not have an IT department
(only 4 employees total, real small). I told her next time she had a
problem to call me and I'd help her work on it.

Now off you go to sift through yours and everyone you know's junk
pile to hopefully come up with something that works.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll come up with something. This lady doesn't need
much. Since she was running a 266Mhz system with only 32MB RAM (and
it was sufficient for her needs) almost any old computer (better than
a 486) will more than likely do well for her. Besides, I have lots
of old junk I'd like to get rid of... don't you? vbg Btw, I have
an old modem in this system now, that I got from who knows where,
(56K modem) and after searching around, found drivers for it that
work and it's used for faxing. So, old "junk" can be useful at times
too. ;o)

Good Luck, HTH, GFIA

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Patty

56K internal??? My fax modem is a 28k external - you must really be up with
the times.

I just sold the majority of my old junk around Christmas to a guy that
wanted a system for his kid, P4/1.7, 80g hd, 845 based mobo, antec case,
52x cdrw, 512mb mem, basically a hotrod from 4 years ago. They were happy
and I got some coin out of the deal.

S

No reason to apologize. You are doing things that even
computer assemblers fear to learn. That battery measurement
was so simple. You did something that many computer
assemblers fear to do and then say it was all unnecessary -
which is why they also purchase insufficient power supplies
costing only $25 or $40. In short, I am pleased you instead
want to be smarter.

The purple wire was 5.0 volts. But when you press the power
switch, no other voltages appear. No problem. As those
previous newsgroup posts noted, the motherboard controller
turns on power supply. So we still do not disconnect any
wires. We measure voltage on the Green wire. This is a
signal - called Power On# - that tells PSU to power up. Put
that meter on green wire to measure more than 0.8 volts -
probably 1.8 or more. When power switch is pressed and
released, that green wire voltage drops to 0.8 volts. We have
just tested other two components of power supply system.

Let's assume that **green wire voltage does not drop**. Now
we suspect the other two power supply 'system' components.
First verify the power supply switch. Is it even making a
connection? Does it really switch?

Numerous ways to answer that question. One is to use finer
wires to connect meter probes into switch wire connector.
Then monitor that voltage as switch is pressed and released.
Obviously that voltage will change in response to switch
pressed and released - if switch works.

Other way is to disconnect the switch cable from
motherboard. Then use meter's continuity tester (or put it in
low ohms) to see resistance drop to zero and go to maximum as
switch is pressed and released. Some meters have a continuity
setting so that it beeps when leads are shorted together;
makes it easier to detect continuity.

Third way is to disconnect switch from motherboard, monitor
voltage on that green wire, and then short the two motherboard
pins that connect to switch. If motherboard controller is
working, then that green wire voltage should change in
response to those shorted 'switch connector' pins.

Notice how quickly we isolate the problem to specific
components without doing all this removing and swapping power
supplies. A power supply tester cannot test power switch or
motherboard's power supply controller - two other components
of the power supply 'system'. Also an intermittent connection
or wire might not be detected by moving things too much.
Multimeter accomplishes a complete test without breaking any
wire connections and without accidentally 'fixing' an
intermittent connection.

Now let's assume the **green wire voltage does change**.
Monitor red, yellow, and orange wire voltages as power cord is
disconnected and reconnected, and then power switch is
pressed. You are looking for voltages that rise up to their
3.3, 5, or 12 for 0.4 to 2.0 seconds.

Again I reference those previous posts that noted this
test. Power supply turns on, then monitors those voltages.
If any one voltage does not appear, then all other voltages
are turned off internal power supply functions (an essential
function that is sometimes missing in those discount $25 and
$40 power supplies). If motherboard controller does tell
power supply to turn on (green wire voltage changes when power
switch is pressed), then which voltage (red, yellow, and
orange wire) does not turn on? More important information.

Procedure is stepping us right to the 'reason for failure' -
and still we avoided changes inside the computer and never
needed the power supply tester.

Patty wrote:
I got +4.99 on the purple. But I can't seem to get the others to
work. I can't get any reading with the power supply connected to
the motherboard, I think my probes are too big to fit in the
backside of the connector. I got the +4.99 with the motherboard
disconnected from the power supply and by putting the red probe in
the purple and the black probe in the closest black wire in the
end of the connector where it would attach to the motherboard.
Power supply plugged in and turned on, computer switched off,
of course.

Please forgive my questions as I am a novice at checking power
on a computer. Give me a wall socket and I'm ok. ;o)

Patty

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:12:37 GMT, sbb78247 wrote:

56K internal??? My fax modem is a 28k external - you must really be up with
the times.

I just sold the majority of my old junk around Christmas to a guy that
wanted a system for his kid, P4/1.7, 80g hd, 845 based mobo, antec case,
52x cdrw, 512mb mem, basically a hotrod from 4 years ago. They were happy
and I got some coin out of the deal.

S

Oh, I wish you could see the boxes of junk I have. Would you believe an
old 120MB hard drive? Yep, it was top of the line in its day. I got a
386SX board in a box if anyone wants it. ;o) This computer I'm looking at
is turning out to be quite a dinosaur too. Just checked the hard drive.
Seagate Medalist Pro 2520 (2.5Gb) so, I think the ole 200Mhz might just
work out fine for her. I'm gonna stick a Diamond 4MB video card in it and
floppy drive and see if it will boot up to a floppy. Then we'll go from
there.

Darn, I gotta get rid of this old junk! ;o)

Patty

Previously noted was that a meter cannot harm power supply.
Why? Intel specs only repeat what was industry standard even
30 years ago. Take all outputs from the power supply. Short
them together. Power on supply. Power supply still cannot be
damaged. If you perform that test and suffer damage, then you
have identified a power supply that was defective when it left
the factory and was probably also missing other components
necessary for computer hardware safety.

That's right. Even a shorted power supply must never be
damaged as was defacto standard so many decades previous.

Don't worry about shorting PSU because shorts should cause
no damage to supply. Meter selected to DC volts also will not
be damaged. Just don't touch anything inside the AC power
cord or inside the case that says "Danger".

Worry more about your own body static electricity. Static
electricity is far more dangerous to computer.

Patty wrote:
Well, I went ahead and used the power supply tester. I had already
gotten +4.99V on the purple with just using the meter. With the
tester, I got +5.16V on the +5V, +11.92V on the +12V, and +3.4V on
the +3.3V. (Now that I think of it, I remember these types of
numbers when I used to have the power supply in my system and
checked it using MBM5.) Can I assume now that the power supply is
ok? Or should I try to test more wires by following your
instructions? I really don't want to short out my power supply,
I may need it in the future. It's an Enlight 300w that originally
came with my case (was replaced with an Enermax 350w.) I'm still
thinking it's the motherboard that has a problem since it didn't
work with its original power supply (which I don't have since the
person they took the computer to in the first place said it was
fried and kept it... yeah right) and this one is my own. I still
think two different power supplies, same result... dead
motherboard or CPU.

Being an owner of two Abit KT7 motherboards, I know all about bad
capacitors and how to recognize them. ;o)

Thanks much for your help.

Patty

Windows. Not something I'd want to leave up to a computer illiterate old
lady.

DELL swears they have free on-site tech support :-)
Seriously, you are going to regret this one !!!

johns

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:36:29 -0500, w_tom wrote:

Let's assume that **green wire voltage does not drop**. Now
we suspect the other two power supply 'system' components.
First verify the power supply switch. Is it even making a
connection? Does it really switch?

Numerous ways to answer that question. One is to use finer
wires to connect meter probes into switch wire connector.
Then monitor that voltage as switch is pressed and released.
Obviously that voltage will change in response to switch
pressed and released - if switch works.


Switch turns on the cpu fan, case fan, and power led light. The power
supply fan also comes on when the computer is switched on. I think I'm
done fooling with this thing. I think the power supply is fine (it was
when I last used it) and everything else has checked out fine on it. I'm
still thinking it's a motherboard or cpu problem.

Had a similar problem once when I built a new system, nothing on power up
except fans. Turns out motherboard was shorting to case, a quick fix
solved that problem. Since this motherboard has been in the case for a few
years, I'm guessing something else is shorting out on it perhaps. For what
the equipment is (at least 5-6 years old), it's just not worth pursuing any
further.

Thanks for all your help. I'll print out the info you've given me and put
it in my toolbox for future reference. I'm happy I've learned something
about using a meter for testing. :o)

Patty

Patty wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 19:12:37 GMT, sbb78247 wrote:

56K internal??? My fax modem is a 28k external - you must really be
up with the times.

I just sold the majority of my old junk around Christmas to a guy
that wanted a system for his kid, P4/1.7, 80g hd, 845 based mobo,
antec case, 52x cdrw, 512mb mem, basically a hotrod from 4 years
ago. They were happy and I got some coin out of the deal.

S

Oh, I wish you could see the boxes of junk I have. Would you believe
an old 120MB hard drive? Yep, it was top of the line in its day. I
got a 386SX board in a box if anyone wants it. ;o) This computer
I'm looking at is turning out to be quite a dinosaur too. Just
checked the hard drive. Seagate Medalist Pro 2520 (2.5Gb) so, I think
the ole 200Mhz might just work out fine for her. I'm gonna stick a
Diamond 4MB video card in it and floppy drive and see if it will boot
up to a floppy. Then we'll go from there.

Darn, I gotta get rid of this old junk! ;o)

Patty

Oh yea? Well top this! I have a couple of 286s up in the attic! one is a
blazing 12 mhz and the other is a 20! I think I still have isa video for
them and add in controller cards for the monsterous 40 mb hd! and if i look
around I think I still have some old 5-1/4 and possibly some 8" drives
around. Also, I think in the storage room at my parents house, they still
have an old IBM PC jr.! 8086 cpu and no ram to speak of!!!!!

Oh wait, I found an 8088 in my attic.

S