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-   -   SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working ! =D (http://www.hardwarebanter.com/showthread.php?t=199777)

[email protected] November 15th 19 09:05 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working ! =D
 
HI PAUL !

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, WHY NOT ! =D

IF IT WASN'T FOR YOU I MIG?HT HAVE ?NEVER B?EEN PERSUADED TO TRY FLIPPING THE SLI/NORMAL PADDLE ON T?HE WINFAST MOTHERBOARD !

YOU TOUGHT ME IT'S NOT ONLY FOR SLI, BUT IT'S SIMPLY TO ENABLE THE SECOND PCI EXPRESS SLOT !!!!! =D

I WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOW THAT TWO PCI-EXPRESS CARDS CAN BE USED for different purposes ! =D

My Dream PC from 2006 was only USB 2.0 so far.

And for External USB Sticks and External USB Diskdrives that is kinda slow....

Only 33 Megabytes/sec, it's still fast enough to be useable but why waste time eh ?! ;) These sticks and drives are USB 3.0.

So today I bought a USB 3.0 PCI Express card, which goes into a black slot, just like a graphics card.

Fortunately the winfast has two pci express slots, I was completely confused about PCI vs PCI Express. Even PCI usb 3.0 would have been usefull I think cause harddisks kinda limited to 60 to 120 megabytes/sec.

Anyway the external Seagate Backup Plus USB 3.0 Mass Storage Device 5 Terrabyte, 5.000.000.000.000 bytes is achieving 100 to 133 Megabytes/sec depending on block sizes, file system fragmentation and so forth !

THIS IS AN AMAZING SPEED. I knew USB 2.0 was bottlenecking the device at roughly 33 MB/sec. USB 3.0 is about 10x faster. I don't think it's hitting an USB limit anymore ! =D HIHIHI.

So this drive is now a WHOPING 4x (times) faster than before ! Which is amazing.

This will help me immensly... to offload video's and games and other downloads which are on my harddisks biting dust... to the usb devices for STORAGE/ARCHIVING.

And ofcourse new stuff as well !

33 megabytes/sec was enough to play the new doom version. 130 Megabytes/sec will be even better for maybe less texture pop-in.

I haven't GAMED YET. But I did do GPU benchmarks BEFORE and AFTER the paddle switch and so far it looks to be the EXACT same performance.

I tested with AIDA64 GPGPU benchmark.

Also CPU performance remains STEADY.

I am not sure if AIDA64 measures PCI Express traffic from Main RAM to PCI Express graphics card.

I am a little bit worried that it might be a bit slower... but if I have to wait double as long that might still be acceptable.

The text on motherboard says:

Top PCI Express 16x
Bottom PCI Express 8x

So I have no idea if it's not in 16x and 8x.

Or if it's divide to 8x 8x ?

Maybe you can answer me that question ?!

What does SLI mode do on this motherboard ?!

PCI Express lanes and SLI and such... confuse me.

Maybe I am lucky and it's a total of 24 pci lanes.

Or maybe it's just 16x full speed if only GPU is used...

Maybe the 8x for usb controller is shared from the other 16x

I have no idea how that works.

I might have to do a GPU and Harddisk or USB stick test at the same time.

I also still have to test USB Stick with Flash technology.

Curious what the performance of such a flash based card will be now that USB 3.0 is in.

I could not use the 128 GB stick cause it's linux... and apperently windows refuses to recgonize EXT4... HAHA Microsoft ! HAHA.

I did buy a new usb stick, the shop was out of 64 gb and 128 gb models, but maybe tomorrow they have new stock the guy said and might call.

So I did buy a 32 usb stick, so I could play with it tonight.

I just can't wait to see what kind of performance it will have... and at least I can perhaps install other operating systems on it... maybe for now or in the future.

I am kinda keen on trying to install windows 10 enterprise 64 bit, long term support, even though I can't run it on socket 939 motherboard, might be nice for in the future.

For star wars battlefront 2 a linuxswap of 32 gb might be needed, so this stick probably too small for linux experiments. Also doubtfull if star wars battle front 2 is ever going to work on this old system, maybe though if wine fixes enough bugs and such.

Though I am also interested in trying out ubuntu and other operating systems.

But first I will test the speed of this Kingston USB stick, it should be pretty good. Probably not stellar strangely enough, already saw on websites it will be around 60 MB/sec or so, not sure...

I kinda wanna see a seek test or so... kinda wondering if these flashes can seek faster than harddisks.

So far I am unsure... USB 2.0 might limit the number of seeks per second.

Perhaps USB 3.0 will set this device free cause of better protocol so it can spread it wings and fly ! =D

Anyway all of this speed gain would not have been possible if it wasn't for you !

So thank you again !

And maybe sometime in the future I might even do a GT 520 + GT 1030 graphics card test on this old computer.

But then I will probably use Linux for it... cause the newest nvidia drivers don't support the GT 520 anymore... which is kinda lame by nvidia, maybe they will change their minds... but maybe not. So for windows there is no point in that for now I think... installing old drivers is very risks so I wont do that, already wrote about that before.

I kinda regret I dont have a website for my experiments/logs might be helpfull for others or myself in future, these postings of mine will disappear after 5 years which is very regretfull.

I just realized I dont even store them anymore... cause of no outlook express usage... that kinda sucks... so I will store this text on my harddrive just in case... Though it's probably not that important... but still interesting story.

Other stories were more interesting... like that flipping of the paddle.

Though sometimes people or software copy our postings and place them on forums... that's kinda cool... but usually also all kinds of ads and maybe even viruses pop up on those websites but ok.

Is there any possibility to have software to work with google groups so I can have a local archive stored as well ?! Like a usenet newsgroup reader ?!

Bye for now,
Skybuck ! ;) =D

[email protected] November 15th 19 09:19 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
LOL, This kingston 32 GB data traveler usb stick is kinda crap, to total crap.

I was expecting much better performance, but the write performance is just crap,
12 MEGABYTE/SEC is top speed so far for writing.

I can't believe this stick is so slow, it's from 2014.

It does say so on websites though that write speed is limited to 10 MB/sec.

The read speed is fast though 128 MB/sec.

So sticks can write at 100 MB/sec and are same price.

So as far as I am concerned these kingston seem to be crap performance wise at least.

I wonder why these are so slow ?! Old tech maybe ?! Or maybe they protected or use some special writing method.

Quite strange.

Well at least the drive was super fast... at least if allowed to write with cache which is ok for me, also cache in windows is on even for small blocks it still achieves 1 MB/sec... where this kingston only achieves 130 kb/sec.

Amazingly bad performance... almost as bad as dial up modems haha.

Well the stick only costed 8 bucks but still... hmmm.

Not sure if I want to use a stick like this for anything serious... like windows 10 enterprise...

PROBABLY NOT. Cause if it needs to be upgraded I will pull my hair out because of waiting time, so this is a bit of a disappointment but ok.

This is a nice example why sales persons cannot be trusted though.

Must do go research on products first... I did tell him to give me kingston for some good speeds...

Saw one guy look a bit strange at me... but he probably didn't know either... but this story is kinda funny.

I did examine the newer kingstons... they are faster... so I assumed these smaller ones were going to be fast as well..

WELL NOPE !

NICE SCAM YOU GOT GOING THERE KINGSTON ! ;) :)

Last just not call you scammers just yet... maybe this is just old tech and was the best back then...

Not sure...

Feels ****ed though hahaha.

Not sure what I am going to use this for... probably some "DOOM" gaming ! ;) :)

Yeah... Wait oh-oh I just realized even DOOM don't fit on this I think...

Yeah it was 42 GB... this is actually just 28 GB... so 32 GB number is misleading as well.

Wish manufacturers would stop with that misleading number crap for capacities...

Suppose I have a very serious requirement: 32 GB swap parition... or 32 GB file whatever... this thing would not have been usefull for it ! ;)

Bye for now,
Skybuck.

[email protected] November 15th 19 09:33 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
OH WOW.

I just made a discovery.

The ATTO Disk Benchmkaring tool also has an IO/s chart !

There are two radio dials/circles in bottom right corner.

Click IO/sec to see results.

For smallest it's like this:

512 bytes, writes: 259
512 bytes, reads: 11.30k

So I guess that means 11.300 reads ?!

That's pretty impressive.

I will do another test of the usb harddisk to compare.

USB Harddisk:

512 bytes, writes: 1.89k / sec
512 bytes, reads: 10.50k / sec

So clearly the usb harddisk is superior.

However I will do one final test with trying to by-pass write caches and such:

Similar results though the windows cache is still on.

Well I have seen enough.

For now the Seagate USB 3.0 External Harddisk of 4.5 TB is far superior in performance and results and quantity.

( I haven't tried booting from it yet but that will probably work well, not from usb 3.0 pci express controllers but usb 2.0 it does show up)

However it was also a lot more expensive: 130 euro at BCC.

But as far as I am concerned definetly worth it.

It's kinda **** I can't test the other usb stick Sandisk it was 60 euro for only 128 GB but then you pay for the speed I guess.

Then again this harddisk is super speedy... kinda strange...

And ofcourse the usb stick is much smaller.... though the harddisk would probably fit in a pocket as well but would be much less comfortable and probably can't take a lot of hits.

USB Stick already fell down 4 times lol cause of it's ****ty small size.

There is the chance of losing these usb sticks.

So again for reliabilities sake my vote for now goes to the usb harddisks... I am simply a little bit more carefull with them ! ;) :)

Hmmm........

Bye for now,
Skybuck.

[email protected] November 15th 19 11:15 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
One last bit of advice:

Always detach all power cables when working on computers.

I've seen some pretty strange behaviour when I didn't:

1. Network card failing/not detected/re-detected/driver re-installed.
2. BIOS would not detect USB Stick.

Funny stuff !

I unplugged all cables, including network and hdmi cable to prevent loops.

Waited 1 or 2 minutes.

And voila, USB Stick working again... being detected in BIOS !

Remarkable story isn't it ! ;) :)

It does make sense though.

When touching electronics... they don't like that... haha kinda like me kinda :)

Also the power cables get probably loops, electricity holes... weird stuff.

Sometimes computers need "fresh" electricity ! =D LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck ! ;) =D

[email protected] November 15th 19 11:19 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
OH Forgot one more weird sympton:

Windows would not shut down.

Might be because I removed cheaper usb stick.

Or might it was because of expansion seagate drive, yes I have a second one 3 TB.

I reconfigured it to also use write caching to test it's speed.

The system C drive is 80 to 100 MB/sec (mostly 80) pretty consistent has best performance for small files. 2.8 MB/sec or so don't now why... maybe optimized by defrag of windows.

D drive/data is 100 MB/sec or so... good i/o... unfortunately drive full for a long time ;) old system is there on too.

Seagate 4.5 TB drive is probably fastest for bigger blocks 130 MB/sec.

Quite impressive ! ;)

Hopefully the shutdown issue is not caused by the newly installed driver.

Probably was a fluke.

If the shutdown problems returns I will let you know otherwise consider it solved for now ;) :)

Bye,
Skybuck =D

Paul[_28_] November 16th 19 03:33 AM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
wrote:
HI PAUL !

I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, WHY NOT ! =D

IF IT WASN'T FOR YOU I MIG?HT HAVE ?NEVER B?EEN PERSUADED TO TRY FLIPPING THE SLI/NORMAL PADDLE ON T?HE WINFAST MOTHERBOARD !

YOU TOUGHT ME IT'S NOT ONLY FOR SLI, BUT IT'S SIMPLY TO ENABLE THE SECOND PCI EXPRESS SLOT !!!!! =D

I WOULD HAVE NEVER KNOW THAT TWO PCI-EXPRESS CARDS CAN BE USED for different purposes ! =D

My Dream PC from 2006 was only USB 2.0 so far.

And for External USB Sticks and External USB Diskdrives that is kinda slow...

Only 33 Megabytes/sec, it's still fast enough to be useable but why waste time eh ?! ;) These sticks and drives are USB 3.0.

So today I bought a USB 3.0 PCI Express card, which goes into a black slot, just like a graphics card.

Fortunately the winfast has two pci express slots, I was completely confused about PCI vs PCI Express. Even PCI usb 3.0 would have been usefull I think cause harddisks kinda limited to 60 to 120 megabytes/sec.

Anyway the external Seagate Backup Plus USB 3.0 Mass Storage Device 5 Terrabyte, 5.000.000.000.000 bytes is achieving 100 to 133 Megabytes/sec depending on block sizes, file system fragmentation and so forth !

THIS IS AN AMAZING SPEED. I knew USB 2.0 was bottlenecking the device at roughly 33 MB/sec. USB 3.0 is about 10x faster. I don't think it's hitting an USB limit anymore ! =D HIHIHI.

So this drive is now a WHOPING 4x (times) faster than before ! Which is amazing.

This will help me immensly... to offload video's and games and other downloads which are on my harddisks biting dust... to the usb devices for STORAGE/ARCHIVING.

And ofcourse new stuff as well !

33 megabytes/sec was enough to play the new doom version. 130 Megabytes/sec will be even better for maybe less texture pop-in.

I haven't GAMED YET. But I did do GPU benchmarks BEFORE and AFTER the paddle switch and so far it looks to be the EXACT same performance.

I tested with AIDA64 GPGPU benchmark.

Also CPU performance remains STEADY.

I am not sure if AIDA64 measures PCI Express traffic from Main RAM to PCI Express graphics card.

I am a little bit worried that it might be a bit slower... but if I have to wait double as long that might still be acceptable.

The text on motherboard says:

Top PCI Express 16x
Bottom PCI Express 8x

So I have no idea if it's not in 16x and 8x.

Or if it's divide to 8x 8x ?

Maybe you can answer me that question ?!

What does SLI mode do on this motherboard ?!

PCI Express lanes and SLI and such... confuse me.

Maybe I am lucky and it's a total of 24 pci lanes.

Or maybe it's just 16x full speed if only GPU is used...

Maybe the 8x for usb controller is shared from the other 16x

I have no idea how that works.

I might have to do a GPU and Harddisk or USB stick test at the same time.

I also still have to test USB Stick with Flash technology.

Curious what the performance of such a flash based card will be now that USB 3.0 is in.

I could not use the 128 GB stick cause it's linux... and apperently windows refuses to recgonize EXT4... HAHA Microsoft ! HAHA.

I did buy a new usb stick, the shop was out of 64 gb and 128 gb models, but maybe tomorrow they have new stock the guy said and might call.

So I did buy a 32 usb stick, so I could play with it tonight.

I just can't wait to see what kind of performance it will have... and at least I can perhaps install other operating systems on it... maybe for now or in the future.

I am kinda keen on trying to install windows 10 enterprise 64 bit, long term support, even though I can't run it on socket 939 motherboard, might be nice for in the future.

For star wars battlefront 2 a linuxswap of 32 gb might be needed, so this stick probably too small for linux experiments. Also doubtfull if star wars battle front 2 is ever going to work on this old system, maybe though if wine fixes enough bugs and such.

Though I am also interested in trying out ubuntu and other operating systems.

But first I will test the speed of this Kingston USB stick, it should be pretty good. Probably not stellar strangely enough, already saw on websites it will be around 60 MB/sec or so, not sure...

I kinda wanna see a seek test or so... kinda wondering if these flashes can seek faster than harddisks.

So far I am unsure... USB 2.0 might limit the number of seeks per second.

Perhaps USB 3.0 will set this device free cause of better protocol so it can spread it wings and fly ! =D

Anyway all of this speed gain would not have been possible if it wasn't for you !

So thank you again !

And maybe sometime in the future I might even do a GT 520 + GT 1030 graphics card test on this old computer.

But then I will probably use Linux for it... cause the newest nvidia drivers don't support the GT 520 anymore... which is kinda lame by nvidia, maybe they will change their minds... but maybe not. So for windows there is no point in that for now I think... installing old drivers is very risks so I wont do that, already wrote about that before.

I kinda regret I dont have a website for my experiments/logs might be helpfull for others or myself in future, these postings of mine will disappear after 5 years which is very regretfull.

I just realized I dont even store them anymore... cause of no outlook express usage... that kinda sucks... so I will store this text on my harddrive just in case... Though it's probably not that important... but still interesting story.

Other stories were more interesting... like that flipping of the paddle.

Though sometimes people or software copy our postings and place them on forums... that's kinda cool... but usually also all kinds of ads and maybe even viruses pop up on those websites but ok.

Is there any possibility to have software to work with google groups so I can have a local archive stored as well ?! Like a usenet newsgroup reader ?!

Bye for now,
Skybuck ! ;) =D


The paddle card, redirects some of the wiring.

The paddle card is not really described well, in the very last
few pages of your Foxconn NF4SK8AA manual. (It is in an Appendix
on page 90.)

It could be a x16/0 or x8/x8 setup. There were some
of these paddle cards, where a total of 17 lanes came to
the paddle card connector, and x16/x1 or x8/x8 were offered.
But yours could be the earlier "x16/0 or x8/x8" type. It's
all fine of course. The x16/x1 is pretty pointless as
these things go. You're not missing anything there.

Paddle cards are not used today, because there are four
PCI express chips soldered to the motherboard, in place
of the paddlecard (it's an "electronic paddlecard").
Since the company making those chips
was bought by a competitor and the competitor raised
the price of the chips, the chips have again disappeared
from motherboard products (and the manufacturer uses
a fixed setup for the lanes instead).

The paddle card basically "steers" x8 of the lanes, either to
the first slot (x16/x0) or to the second slot (x8/x8). In the
"SLI mode", both connectors have x8 lanes, and the logic block in
the chipset chip understands how to split the x16 logically into
two x8 blocks for detection purposes.

Early versions of BIOS code for that stuff, some
companies erroneously only supported video cards in
the slots. But later BIOS corrections allowed the
slots to have a multitude of addin card functions
(SATA III or USB3), because as far as the hardware is
concerned, there is no reason to segregate the slots for
only video. I think Asus made one of the motherboards,
where the video slot would not accept other card types.

I think your board is similar in architecture, to this one.
This one uses the CK804 without the companion C51D Northbridge.
They show the position of the CK804, but there is no C51D
nearer to the CPU socket.

http://static.highspeedbackbone.net/...ies_Manual.pdf

This one, would be the next SKU up (more expensive), and shows both chips.
And while in theory it does full x16/x16, there probably isn't
enough Hypertransport bandwidth for that. I don't think
anyone would notice really.

https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/msi-...rboard-review/

In any case, I think the lanes on this generation are
Rev1.1, so if you plug a single lane PCI Express USB3
into the x16 slot, it gets 250MB/sec bandwidth from the
lane. That's what will limit your USB3 transfer rate.
The PCI Express and the USB3 are both full duplex, so transfers
can happen in both directions at the same time at that speed.

if you get a USB3 card with x2 lanes (an x4 sized connector),
then you can get closer (but not exactly) to USB3 transfer
rates. This is an example. (And, there are always newer chips
coming out. I bought this one, which is why I can examine
this first hand.)

PEXUSB312A2 ASM2142 x4 connector (two lanes wired)

https://www.startech.com/ca/Cards-Ad...rd~PEXUSB312A2

"Upgrade an older PCIe equipped desktop from
USB 3.0/2.0 to USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbps)"

Well, actually, no. On an older system, it can be used
to upgrade to USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5Gbps) and almost do a good
job. It would still be slightly slower than an Intel USB3.
I have one of those, but haven't installed it yet. Because
my slower USB3 is good enough :-) And I'm pretty lazy.
That would probably do around 450MB/sec or so. Assuming
a USB3 device fast enough to drive it like that.

If you plug a card like that, into a Rev.2 video card slot,
it goes faster still, and makes nice "Intel quality" USB3.0.

When you're at the computer shop, lots of the "wrong" cards
will be on display, to trick users. You have to ask for
help selecting the better ones - but it's better to
do your researches at home, as the staff are a little
bit slow on the details.

But that's the great thing about computers with two
video slots, is your "toys" go in the second slot.

Paul

[email protected] November 16th 19 01:46 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
THE SHUTDOWN PROBLEM REMAINS !

HMMMMM.

NOT SURE HOW TO DIAGNOSE WINDOWS 7 SHUTDOWN PROBLEMS.

WILL GOOGLE IT SOON.

OFCOURSE THIS SITUATION IS NOT IDEAL, THIS WOULD "TAX" THE POWER BUTTON DOUBLE TO TURN ON AND TO TURN OFF THE COMPUTER.

IT'S ALREADY 10 YEARS OLD OR SOMETHING SO IT'S NOT IN THE BEST CONDITION.

SO I'D RATHER SOLVE THIS ISSUE.

IT'S ALSO SLIGHTLY ANNOYING CAUSE I AM USED TO WALK AWAY FROM PC AS IT SHUTS DOWN AND THEN MAYBE LATER CHECK IF IT'S SHUT DOWN.

MY INITIAL GUESS IS THAT SOMEHOW THE EXTERNAL USB HARDDISK CONNECTED TO PCI EXPRESS CONTROLLER STAYS ON AND REFUSES TO SHUT DOWN.

COULD BE A DRIVER ISSUE NOT SENDING THE CORRECT SIGNAL.

COULD ALSO BE AN PCI-EXPRESS ISSUE, PERHAPS PCI-EXPRESS CANNOT BE USED TO SHUTDOWN EQUIPMENT.

KINDA STRANGE SITUATION.

BYE FOR NOW,
SKYBUCK.

[email protected] November 16th 19 02:02 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
OK, Cool story about the paddle re-directing bandwidth ?!

All seems fine for now.

I can't really check this story... verify it... so it stays vague for now.

However I FORGOT to mention which exact product I bought, it was this one:

https://www.raidsonic.de/en/standard..._objectID=1202

"
ICY BOX
IB-AC614a
USB 3.0 PCI-E Expansion Card with 4x USB 3.0 port

Features

• PCI Express Single-lane (x1) Revision 2.0
• USB 3.0 transfer rate up to 5 Gbit/s
• Supports simultaneous operation of 4x USB 3.0 devices
• Max. 5 V / 900 mA power output to each USB 3.0 Port
• 4-pin Molex power connector for extra power
• Operating systems: Windows 7 / 8 / 8.x
"

I connected the molex power connector cause I saw other people do it on youtube, manual does not mention that it's necessary, website does mention to connect it if devices need more power.

Since initially it wasn't working cause of paddle, and also I don't wanna risk slow transfer speeds, I decided to connect it, so far nothing blew up (yet :)) ! ;) :)


Drivers have to be downloaded from a different part of this website:

https://www.raidsonic.de/en/driver_2...r_index_en.php

I downloaded this one:

https://www.raidsonic.de/products/do....7600.3105.zip

(It doesn't mention the little a in the model name... so:

IB-AC614
vs
IB-AC614a

But I'd figure this driver is for the same models.

So far it's working which is nice.

However there is a windows 7 shutdown problem.

Now my windows 7 installation acts weird from time to time and has some weird issues sometimes, some things work very well, and boot and shutdown issues apperently is now back.

I have a whacky hypothesis about this:

1. I checked the motherboard manual, it means APIC mode... not sure what APIC is will google that later.

2. I flashed the motherboard BIOS to a new BIOS version to enable 4 GB ram support.

3. My hypothesis is that the new BIOS firmware REMOVED the APIC feature and this might be causing boot issues and shutdown issues.

4. APIC mode is apperently default off in this newer BIOS. And this might be the cause of issues.

It might also be unrelated to this new shutdown issue.

So sometimes this particularly system has a 10 minute boot time... and the shutdown time seems to be infinite... tried this last night...

Fortunately I haven't seen the 10 minute boot time in a while...

Might also be temperature related or electricity related or anything really, maybe daemon tools server down for verifieing software version.

This is what I start disliking about windows.

There is absolutely no helpfull information during the boot or shutdown process... just some beautifull screen to look at but nothing more.

Yes there is some info if windows is put into safemode or debug mode.

But it pales in comparision to linux. Linux has HUGE ammounts of information during boot and shutdown process. MUCH BETTER for diagnosing problems.

It was LINUX who detected this APIC issue, not WINDOWS.

So windows is now on the losing side of things.

A WAKE UP CALL for Microsoft to do better at the logging/debugging front ;)

It should not require special tools or special software to debug windows... so this kinda sucks right now.

It should also be easy to enable without requiring weird settings stucked away somewhere in msconfig or boot configuration files or whatever not. Kinda annoying.

Maybe it should even be default, maybe I would prefer that... yeah probably.... the boot screen of windows is pretty dead anyway ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.

Paul[_28_] November 16th 19 02:28 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
wrote:
THE SHUTDOWN PROBLEM REMAINS !

HMMMMM.

NOT SURE HOW TO DIAGNOSE WINDOWS 7 SHUTDOWN PROBLEMS.

WILL GOOGLE IT SOON.

OFCOURSE THIS SITUATION IS NOT IDEAL, THIS WOULD "TAX" THE POWER BUTTON DOUBLE TO TURN ON AND TO TURN OFF THE COMPUTER.

IT'S ALREADY 10 YEARS OLD OR SOMETHING SO IT'S NOT IN THE BEST CONDITION.

SO I'D RATHER SOLVE THIS ISSUE.

IT'S ALSO SLIGHTLY ANNOYING CAUSE I AM USED TO WALK AWAY FROM PC AS IT SHUTS DOWN AND THEN MAYBE LATER CHECK IF IT'S SHUT DOWN.

MY INITIAL GUESS IS THAT SOMEHOW THE EXTERNAL USB HARDDISK CONNECTED TO PCI EXPRESS CONTROLLER STAYS ON AND REFUSES TO SHUT DOWN.

COULD BE A DRIVER ISSUE NOT SENDING THE CORRECT SIGNAL.

COULD ALSO BE AN PCI-EXPRESS ISSUE, PERHAPS PCI-EXPRESS CANNOT BE USED TO SHUTDOWN EQUIPMENT.

KINDA STRANGE SITUATION.

BYE FOR NOW,
SKYBUCK.


It could be an open registry hive.

Windows 7 should have a built-in copy of UPHClean
(User Profile Hive Cleanup Service) for that.

But why that would happen out of the blue, that
doesn't add up.

*******

If it isn't that, it could be that your new USB3 card
has a "service" which is running, it's a monitor service
and it puts up the message "this device could run faster
if plugged into a USB3 port". That's about all I can think
of, in terms of the recent change to your system. You'll
need to track down branding information for your USB3 chip.
If this is Windows 7, Vista, or WinXP, then those need
driver software installed, and that kind of service
would be part of the install. You could try disabling
that service, but first you have to find it.

To find that service on my machine, I had to use Sysinternals
Process Monitor, plug a USB3 stick into a USB2 port, and
I could see activity coming from "rusb3mon.exe" in my
ProcMon trace. And there is a Run key to start that when
the computer boots - I looked in regedit to find it. This
is how the EXE gets launched. Autoruns might list a thing
like that, and give an "easy tick box" to disable it
for a test run.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Run
RUSB3MON REG_SZ "C:\Program Files\Renesas Electronics\USB 3.0 Host Controller Driver\Application\rusb3mon.exe"

It's possible the equivalent of that on your machine,
is preventing shutdown (for 15 seconds).

I tried looking in C:\WINDOWS\inf at the INF files, but
they make no mention of this monitor program and how
it launches. I had to find it the hard way, with Procmon.exe.

So the theory would be, that whatever brand of USB3 chip
you've got, maybe there is a problem with the equivalent
of that program. OSes like Win8 or Win10 don't need
third party software for that.

Paul

Paul[_28_] November 16th 19 02:55 PM

SUPER BIG THANKS TO PAUL ! USB 3.0 PCI Express Controller working! =D
 
wrote:
OK, Cool story about the paddle re-directing bandwidth ?!

All seems fine for now.

I can't really check this story... verify it... so it stays vague for now.

However I FORGOT to mention which exact product I bought, it was this one:

https://www.raidsonic.de/en/standard..._objectID=1202

"
ICY BOX
IB-AC614a
USB 3.0 PCI-E Expansion Card with 4x USB 3.0 port

Features

• PCI Express Single-lane (x1) Revision 2.0
• USB 3.0 transfer rate up to 5 Gbit/s
• Supports simultaneous operation of 4x USB 3.0 devices
• Max. 5 V / 900 mA power output to each USB 3.0 Port
• 4-pin Molex power connector for extra power
• Operating systems: Windows 7 / 8 / 8.x
"

I connected the molex power connector cause I saw other people do it on youtube, manual does not mention that it's necessary, website does mention to connect it if devices need more power.

Since initially it wasn't working cause of paddle, and also I don't wanna risk slow transfer speeds, I decided to connect it, so far nothing blew up (yet :)) ! ;) :)


Drivers have to be downloaded from a different part of this website:

https://www.raidsonic.de/en/driver_2...r_index_en.php

I downloaded this one:

https://www.raidsonic.de/products/do....7600.3105.zip

(It doesn't mention the little a in the model name... so:

IB-AC614
vs
IB-AC614a

But I'd figure this driver is for the same models.

So far it's working which is nice.

However there is a windows 7 shutdown problem.

Now my windows 7 installation acts weird from time to time and has some weird issues sometimes, some things work very well, and boot and shutdown issues apperently is now back.

I have a whacky hypothesis about this:

1. I checked the motherboard manual, it means APIC mode... not sure what APIC is will google that later.

2. I flashed the motherboard BIOS to a new BIOS version to enable 4 GB ram support.

3. My hypothesis is that the new BIOS firmware REMOVED the APIC feature and this might be causing boot issues and shutdown issues.

4. APIC mode is apperently default off in this newer BIOS. And this might be the cause of issues.

It might also be unrelated to this new shutdown issue.

So sometimes this particularly system has a 10 minute boot time... and the shutdown time seems to be infinite... tried this last night...

Fortunately I haven't seen the 10 minute boot time in a while...

Might also be temperature related or electricity related or anything really, maybe daemon tools server down for verifieing software version.

This is what I start disliking about windows.

There is absolutely no helpfull information during the boot or shutdown process... just some beautifull screen to look at but nothing more.

Yes there is some info if windows is put into safemode or debug mode.

But it pales in comparision to linux. Linux has HUGE ammounts of information during boot and shutdown process. MUCH BETTER for diagnosing problems.

It was LINUX who detected this APIC issue, not WINDOWS.

So windows is now on the losing side of things.

A WAKE UP CALL for Microsoft to do better at the logging/debugging front ;)

It should not require special tools or special software to debug windows... so this kinda sucks right now.

It should also be easy to enable without requiring weird settings stucked away somewhere in msconfig or boot configuration files or whatever not. Kinda annoying.

Maybe it should even be default, maybe I would prefer that... yeah probably... the boot screen of windows is pretty dead anyway ;)

Bye,
Skybuck.


Hardware is VIA VL805.

I got a driver here, purely to dump some names, not
to install it or anything.

https://us.softpedia-secure-download..._V4.70C_AP.zip

I used an Inno Unpacker to list the filenames.

L:\innounp.exe -t VIA_XHCI_Driver_V4.70C_AP.exe
; Version detected: 5500 (Unicode)
#0 {tmp}\dotNetFx40_Full_x86_x64.exe
Reading slice L:\VIA_XHCI_Driver_V4.70C_AP.exe
#1 {tmp}\USetup\0x0409.ini
#2 {tmp}\USetup\165x300.bmp
#3 {tmp}\USetup\500x60.bmp
#4 {tmp}\USetup\asia.slf
#5 {tmp}\USetup\english.slf
#6 {tmp}\USetup\europe1.slf
#7 {tmp}\USetup\europe2.slf
#8 {tmp}\USetup\europe3.slf
#9 {tmp}\USetup\europe4.slf
#10 {tmp}\USetup\instmsia.exe
#11 {tmp}\USetup\instmsiw.exe
#12 {tmp}\USetup\isscript.msi
#13 {tmp}\USetup\LICENSE.MLF
#14 {tmp}\USetup\Platform.msi
#15 {tmp}\USetup\setup.exe
#16 {tmp}\USetup\Setup.ini
#17 {tmp}\USetup\Setup.iss
#18 {tmp}\USetup\SETUP.MLF
#19 {tmp}\USetup\SETUP.SCF
#20 {tmp}\USetup\VIAPCI.sys
#21 {tmp}\USetup\viasetup.dll
#22 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\component.cif
#23 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\xHCInstall.dll
#24 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\xHCX64Install.exe
#25 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\WHQL\7_x64\vusbstor.ca t
#26 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\WHQL\7_x86\vusbstor.ca t
#27 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\WHQL\81_x64\vusbstor.c at
#28 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\WHQL\81_x86\vusbstor.c at
#29 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\WHQL\8_x64\vusbstor.ca t
#30 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\WHQL\8_x86\vusbstor.ca t
#31 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\WHQL\Vista_x64\vusbsto r.cat
#32 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\WHQL\Vista_x86\vusbsto r.cat
#33 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\x64\vusbstor,1.cat
#34 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\x64\vusbstor.inf
#35 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\x64\vusbstor.sys
#36 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\x64\WdfCoInstaller0100 9.dll
#37 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\x86\vusbstor,1.cat
#38 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\x86\vusbstor.inf
#39 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\x86\vusbstor.sys
#40 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\UAS_Client\x86\WdfCoInstaller0100 9.dll
#41 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\Language.ini
#42 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\usb3Monitor.exe === this is your USB monitor
#43 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x64\devctrl.dll
#44 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x64\mfc100u.dll
#45 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x64\msvcr100.dll
#46 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x64\VLIUASPCtrl.exe
#47 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x64\WPFUASCtrl.dll
#48 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x86\devctrl.dll
#49 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x86\mfc100u.dll
#50 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x86\msvcr100.dll
#51 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x86\VLIUASPCtrl.exe
#52 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\Utility\x86\WPFUASCtrl.dll
#53 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x64\viahub3.cat
#54 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x64\ViaHub3.inf
#55 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x64\ViaHub3.sys
#56 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x64\WdfCoInstaller01011.dll
#57 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x64\xhcdrv.cat
#58 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x64\xhcdrv.inf
#59 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x64\xhcdrv.sys
#60 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x86\viahub3.cat
#61 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x86\ViaHub3.inf
#62 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x86\ViaHub3.sys
#63 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x86\WdfCoInstaller01011.dll
#64 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x86\xhcdrv.cat
#65 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x86\xhcdrv.inf
#66 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\VISTA\x86\xhcdrv.sys
#67 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x64\viahub3.cat
#68 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x64\ViaHub3.inf
#69 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x64\ViaHub3.sys
#70 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x64\WdfCoInstaller01011.dll
#71 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x64\xhcdrv.cat
#72 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x64\xhcdrv.inf
#73 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x64\xhcdrv.sys
#74 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x86\viahub3.cat
#75 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x86\ViaHub3.inf
#76 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x86\ViaHub3.sys
#77 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x86\WdfCoInstaller01011.dll
#78 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x86\xhcdrv.cat
#79 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x86\xhcdrv.inf
#80 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN7\x86\xhcdrv.sys
#81 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x64\viahub3.cat
#82 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x64\ViaHub3.inf
#83 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x64\ViaHub3.sys
#84 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x64\WdfCoInstaller01011.dll
#85 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x64\xhcdrv.cat
#86 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x64\xhcdrv.inf
#87 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x64\xhcdrv.sys
#88 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x86\viahub3.cat
#89 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x86\ViaHub3.inf
#90 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x86\ViaHub3.sys
#91 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x86\WdfCoInstaller01011.dll
#92 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x86\xhcdrv.cat
#93 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x86\xhcdrv.inf
#94 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN8\x86\xhcdrv.sys
#95 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x64\viahub3.cat
#96 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x64\ViaHub3.inf
#97 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x64\ViaHub3.sys
#98 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x64\WdfCoInstaller01011.dll
#99 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x64\xhcdrv.cat
#100 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x64\xhcdrv.inf
#101 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x64\xhcdrv.sys
#102 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x86\viahub3.cat
#103 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x86\ViaHub3.inf
#104 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x86\ViaHub3.sys
#105 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x86\WdfCoInstaller01011.dll
#106 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x86\xhcdrv.cat
#107 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x86\xhcdrv.inf
#108 {tmp}\USetup\xhc\WIN81\x86\xhcdrv.sys
#115 install_script.iss

So you'd try disabling the Run key for usb3Monitor.exe
and see if the OS shuts down faster.

Paul


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